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 Post subject: Harassment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:40 pm 
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Stop, halt, breathe

I'm feeling angry because somebody who requested no further communication from me, keeps hassling me with a bunch of verbal diorhea (sp??)

1. Respond to their PM and break their request to not communicate with them
2. Ignore the messages (delete them before I've even read them)
3. Request that this person refrain from sending me messages.

1. is playing into her game, to continue to communicate even though she's said no more. I won't go there, end of story!

2. works for me, for the future. :)

3. This seems appropriate, but when a person can't even respect their own boundaries (they said no more communication) yet continue to bait me with communication, then how in the heck do I expect them to respect my boundary? LOL

I will chose option 2. I will ignore any/all further messages from this person.

UNTWISTING/SEPARATION OF STUFF/AGREEMENTS
Why do I feel so angry? Because the person is projecting all of her unhealthy traits onto me, has split me black (all bad) because of one mistake for which I apologised. The apology was rejected. She's now on a hate-fest to prove me to be some kind of bully (and that everything I post on the board is fake!!!) and I'm really fed up with it to be honest. This person is still ranting (angry and being nasty) about an incident that occurred almost 2 weeks ago (and not even on the board BTW - In private - Yahoo IM) - one that I'd already let go off and moved on from.

Untwist this: So what if she thinks I'm bully? I know that I'm not that person. I recognise typical BPD splitting - painting a person all black - all previous interactions therefore weren't real and must have been fake??? - this is her BPD logic, not mine. I am a good, nice person who gets triggered, fucks up and makes mistakes sometimes. In other words I'm human. I'm just like every other person on this board, working on themselves. I recognise that her tirade of loathing and abuse isn't even about me (it's her transference & projection) and therefore I cannot take any of it personally. What to do with the anger? - give it back to where it belongs. It's not my anger to own.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:23 pm 
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I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It's certainly not much fun to be on the receiving end of Borderline behaviour, that's for sure. I applaud your efforts to look within, untwist, enforce separation of stuff, etc.

Quote:
UNTWISTING/SEPARATION OF STUFF/AGREEMENTS
Why do I feel so angry? Because the person is projecting all of her unhealthy traits onto me, has split me black (all bad) because of one mistake for which I apologised. The apology was rejected. She's now on a hate-fest to prove me to be some kind of bully (and that everything I post on the board is fake!!!) and I'm really fed up with it to be honest. This person is still ranting (angry and being nasty) about an incident that occurred almost 2 weeks ago (and not even on the board BTW - In private - Yahoo IM) - one that I'd already let go off and moved on from.

Is it possible there's some projection or assumptive reasoning on your part in this characterization? While you may be 98% on-target with your assessment, is it truly possible to know beyond a shadow of a doubt why someone does what they do and/or assign reasons to their actions?

The underlined pieces are the all-or-nothing stuff that jumped out at me. Please know that I'm not discounting your assessment and I'm not suggesting "She's NOT projecting her stuff onto you" or that "She's NOT in a hate-fest" or whatever else. You may be correct that this is within the realm of likelihood when it comes to the beneath-the-surface stuff for her.

My question for you, though, is: how does that really impact you? You can't know for sure she's doing these things for these reasons. You're not her. You can guess, but isn't that an assumption?

What would guessing correctly actually gain YOU? Would it make the unacceptable behaviour cease simply by being correct in your guess?

My point is - it doesn't really matter why she's doing what she's doing or even (really) what her actions are. Those things are not under your control. The only thing you can control is how you react and respond to irrational, unacceptable behavior - whatever the reason, whatever the form, whatever the guise, whatever the diagnosis. Right?

I guess I'm asking you to explore the root causes of the anger itself and start the untwisting there, internally.

Your Stuff <~~||~~> Her Stuff

Her hate-fest isn't your problem.

Her attempts to prove you a fake aren't your problem.

Her projection isn't your problem.

Her inability to respect her own boundaries isn't your problem.

Her continued ranting and inability to let go, accept, move on isn't your problem.

Her calling you a bully isn't your problem.

None of what she says or does is your problem. All of those things are reflections of herself, her own inner twistedness, her own illness, her own Stuff. You do not need to take that on.

You're on the right track when you say "give it back to where it belongs" -- I'm hopeful you'll be able to get yourself to a place where she (or anyone else) can fling poo at you inside your house, never once being bothered by it, never allowing it to stick, never allowing it to creep inside (to the point where you're fed up with it.) To simply observe the behaviour, accept it for what it is (outside of your control, not your stuff) and move on to things that are under your control without much of a second thought. Certainly not enough thought or energy to allow yourself to get riled up, fed up, angry!

It's her stuff, not yours ... right? Why would you need to (or want to) get angry over her stuff?!

Deleting the PMs is your best option, from what you've described. If those PMs are happening through BPDR, the sender can tell if you've read the PM by monitoring the status of the message they've sent - when it moves from the Outbox to the Sentbox. If you delete it without reading it, she should be able to tell that her words are never even being read by you. If she has Borderline, that will likely sting more than anything else - being rejected by rejecting the opportunity to read her words.

I know the curiosity is strong and I know it's very tempting to read it just to see what it says ... but honestly, do you really even want to know?! LOL

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:26 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Is it possible there's some projection or assumptive reasoning on your part in this characterization? While you may be 98% on-target with your assessment, is it truly possible to know beyond a shadow of a doubt why someone does what they do and/or assign reasons to their actions?


I guess I am making assumptions about it being a "hate-fest." No assumptions have been made about the "fake" and "bully" parts though. These were exact words written by the person. I am fake on the board and apparently do a good job of hiding the "real me" in public because of ONE mess up in private. LOL It's just so funny because I'm the same person here, there, wherever I go. I don't pretend to be anything. I'm just me.

I make mistakes and react in an angry Borderline fashion sometimes, big deal? Who here hasn't done that? The main thing is I then go on to own my stuff, work through my stuff, apologise where necessary and make amends, work the tools in hindsight. I do my best. I can't do any more than that. Doesn't make me a bully. Just an imperfect human.

Her motives/intentions, yeah you're right, does it really matter if I understand them and know exactly why? Her opinions of me, do they matter? No, because it's all her stuff. I can observe it and let it brush off me. Yeah, I like that.

The root of my anger? Allowing the words of others to penetrate me, poisoning me, taking it personally. Feeling angry in response. This is child-based reactions, not adult. The anger is observable in my body - the adrenalin flowing throw my arms, the electric tension in my body, the feeling of wanting to physically lash out. I do not however need to react/respond to that & I didn't other than coming to post here later. It is old feelings being released. The feeling of anger just is/was. I don't even have to attach any meaning to it like I did in this post = I attached a meaning/reason to the angry feelings in my body = the persons message to me was the cause, which I can see now wasn't necessarily the case.

How do you stop this transference stuff from happening? Really, this is a serious question. My body responds to stuff in the present, as if it was in the past? I felt the anger of a little kid taking in the poison of the adults around her. WHen I use the tools, and separate stuff, do the wise mind thing, I feel nothing, because its not mine to own. How do you integrate the two?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:46 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Deleting the PMs is your best option, from what you've described. If those PMs are happening through BPDR, the sender can tell if you've read the PM by monitoring the status of the message they've sent - when it moves from the Outbox to the Sentbox. If you delete it without reading it, she should be able to tell that her words are never even being read by you. If she has Borderline, that will likely sting more than anything else - being rejected by rejecting the opportunity to read her words.

I know the curiosity is strong and I know it's very tempting to read it just to see what it says ... but honestly, do you really even want to know?! LOL


Yeah, it's that curiosity thing that got me. See I already decided I wasn't going to read any more messages this person sent me and I left it overnight, but then the title was "truce", so stupid me thought great, finally we are going to sort this out like adults. LOL. It was just a guise to get me to read the spew-fest. I guess another reason why i felt angry. I should have known better. Never mind, I ain't falling for it again. I will be deleting/ignoring every message in the future, including those that are posted to me on the board.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:26 pm 
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Amanda -

I don't have much to offer other than to say I know how utterly frustrating and upsetting it is for someone to Not leave you alone when you have requested it.

I like you kept thinking the person was going to 'move on' yet instead they chose to keep hashing the same ole garbage. This board worked hard to show me that it really was up to me to let it all go- I was the one giving it the power by reading; by hoping etc.

You know your part in it.. for me, my part can be hidden for a bit, but because I try to deal with truth, if I've fucked up and been part of the bad situation, I eventually feel it. If this is anywhere near true for you, might want to step back and re-evaluate what your next steps are. Bottom line, tho, as has been recommended.. it is up to you to end it. The other person has already shown they won't - that's not going to change !

I really am sorry you had to go thru this. I so know what it is like.

I also want to add, I think it is great that you could come here and work thru most of it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Amanda wrote:
No assumptions have been made about the "fake" and "bully" parts though. These were exact words written by the person. I am fake on the board and apparently do a good job of hiding the "real me" in public because of ONE mess up in private.

So what it sounds like is that she may be having problems finding the greyness of you, Amanda. If you do great on the board (white) and then have a screw-up off the board (black), the bad completely negates the good. Is that your problem though? Does her saying it make it true? (I know you already know it doesn't. I know your head knows it but I think it's going to be a little while still before you can close the understanding gap between the heart and mind.)

Amanda wrote:
The root of my anger? Allowing the words of others to penetrate me, poisoning me, taking it personally. Feeling angry in response. This is child-based reactions, not adult.

Am I understanding that you're angry with the inner child for continuing to exist? Angry at yourself for being provoked by the insults?

The thing is: a reaction is just a reaction. It's the body's primal instinct. It's the fight-or-flight mechanism that has allowed humanity to survive this long. It's not wrong or bad or something to be cast out or avoided or chastized. It is what it is.

And you already know that a reaction doesn't have to be the response.

There are still times I'll read something (here, at work, etc.) or hear something (at work, at a store, etc.) and my reaction is "OMG, how aggravating, I just want to scream!" And my response has become, with considerable practice, to simply move on as quickly as I can.

Okay, so I'm aggravated / I find that aggravating. So what? There's nothing I can DO about it so why dwell on it? I've got plenty of other things I can devote my time to that will serve me in a much better way.

I'm sure you remember my posts about a lady at work who drove me up the wall, screaming in the alley, literally pulling my hair in blind rage, frustration to the point of tears, etc.

She still works there. She and I still sit in the same proximity we always have. The only thing that's changed is me and my responses to her continued "stupidity." I let the "OMG, I want to smack her" come into my head and then let it go right back out. I don't grind my teeth, I don't clench my fists, I don't vent my spleen to a sympathetic coworker. I just let it pass. She's annoying but she is who she is. I can't change her and I have plenty of other things to worry about than to waste my precious energy and time on blind, impotent, unproductive rage.

Today for example:

If she could say "ohmygosh, are you SEriouS?" one more time, she'd sound even more like a frickin' simp. Hey, where did that set of report specs go? There it is. Okay, what did Lindsay need me to do on that again ...

Two months ago, that same incident would have been:

If she could say "ohmygosh, are you SEriouS?" one more time, she'd sound even more like a frickin' simp. I swear, I cannot STAND that woman. She is SUCH a moron! I just do NOT understand why this stupid-ass company continues to keep her around. If I were her client, I would hang up on her for screeching & bellowing in my ear like that! She's just SO ridiculous. OMG, where is Carrie??? I need to vent NOW!

And guess how many points my blood pressure would go up? Guess how much less work I got done. Granted, in this case, we're talking about paid-work rather than introspective-self-work but the parallel remains.

There's no real value in focusing on the thought / the reaction. Just let it be. It's human nature. Accept it and move on. Don't beat yourself up!

Amanda wrote:
How do you stop this transference stuff from happening? Really, this is a serious question. My body responds to stuff in the present, as if it was in the past? I felt the anger of a little kid taking in the poison of the adults around her. WHen I use the tools, and separate stuff, do the wise mind thing, I feel nothing, because its not mine to own. How do you integrate the two?

I don't know if my above-ramblings address this or not. I guess the underlying, core principle of addressing the "responding in the present as if it was the past" issue is the base acceptance that nothing is the past anymore. Not even two seconds ago is relevant.

Sure, it happened. But that's past tense. It can't be changed. So why fret? Just move on.

With five dogs in my house, I sure do love watching Cesar Milan in his National Geographic channel show "The Dog Whisperer." I don't know if you have ever seen the show or read any of his materials but I find his approach very zen-like and very remniscent of Don Miguel Ruiz. It's very live-in-the-moment.

This is mostly because dogs live in the moment. They don't hold grudges. Sure, they can get habituated over years of traumatic abuse but they don't hold grudges. If I yell at Bogey at 5pm because he got into the garbage, by 5:05, if I call him over to snuggle on him, he doesn't snub me because I was mean to him five minutes ago. His "feelings" aren't still hurt. He's not still mad at me for scolding him harshly.

Granted, we're people and we have sentient minds, the ability to reason, the ability to recall. That can get us into more trouble than any dog could ever get into!

If you spend the next two or three weeks focused on "I live in the NOW" and remind yourself each time you feel that reaction process flooding your body that you can let it waft in and pass through like the smell of a skunk as you're driving down the highway, I think you'll find yourself with a little more zen in your life.

Quips wrote:
Let go of the past and the ills in your life for failing to do so, one creates the chains that bind them in misery.

Quote:
Break the chains that bind you to your past. Break free and become the person you see in your mind. It is possible.

Quote:
Never apologize for being exactly who you are at that precise moment.

Quote:
By working toward acceptance, understanding will come.

Quote:
Learn to forgive. Most of all, yourself.

(Maybe this one ^ is the most applicable, I can't tell. Forgive yourself for reactions and harsh thoughts. Don't let them consume you, even for a moment. Just let them be. Notice the wasp's nest and keep walking. Don't swat at them, don't try to destroy the nest. Just keep walking.)
Quote:
Happiness is a state of mind. Where is your mind?

Thoughts ARE things. The thoughts we put the most energy into become the very things that surround us in life. Focus on the NOW and keep moving confidently toward the future you envision for yourself. Pause when you need to rest but don't get caught in someone else's quicksand, least of all willingly!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:03 pm 
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Hey Smilin, I owned my part of it. I'm not scared to admit it on this board that I messed up. I reacted to my anger by swearing at this person. Instead of observing my anger. I acted Borderline. I admit it. I own it. I apologised for it. I later went back (and re-read our IM convo) and saw why I reacted in the first place (Again it was about me taking stuff personally.) So, I made a mistake. Who doesn't here? I've forgiven myself and let it go. Nothing more for me to work through.

I learn from the experience, that I need to be more vigilant of my emotional reactions, to walk away when I need to, to take a breathe or two, to sort through it. That's the biggest mistake I made - not following my gut to leave the situation as soon as I started to feel irritated.

Anyway, I let it all go. It's finished as far as I'm concerned. You are right it is now up to me to hold true to my boundary and to ignore all further correspondence from that person, because obviously they have no intention of letting go and moving on. That's the hardest bit for me I guess - letting go off hope that we could sort things out. (I'm guessing this is about a deeper issue, than the in the moment situ, but will save that for another day. LOL) I don't generally like to end things in such a manner.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm actually feeling a whole load better for working through this with the tools.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:16 am 
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Quote:
So what it sounds like is that she may be having problems finding the greyness of you, Amanda. If you do great on the board (white) and then have a screw-up off the board (black), the bad completely negates the good. Is that your problem though? Does her saying it make it true? (I know you already know it doesn't. I know your head knows it but I think it's going to be a little while still before you can close the understanding gap between the heart and mind.)


Bingo! I know this is her problem on an intellectual level. On a feeling level, I still teeter-totter a little. I'm ok, I'm not ok. Still working on building a solid sense of self. I know I'm not a bad person, but I heard it so much as a child, it still sticks a little. I know that my behaviour was wrong - it was wrong to react and to swear at a person, but that doesn't make me a bad person. It was the behaviour that wasn't ok, not that I'm not an ok person.

Quote:
Am I understanding that you're angry with the inner child for continuing to exist? Angry at yourself for being provoked by the insults?


A little. I wish I could just let stuff brush off me. I used to be able to until I stopped being numb and I learned how to feel again - LOL (sometimes wish I hadn't learned that!) Not really angry at the inner child, just observing that the intensity of my feelings indicated that my reaction was triggered. The 90/10 effect. 90% is about something in the past. 10% about the moment. I realise for the purpose of this board (CBT , in the moment focused) that I need to leave the 90% analysis stuff for the work I do in therapy.

The in the moment anger came from: after a peaceful week or so with no communication from this person, I suddenly get a message titled "truce." It was my assumption that the PM was going to be about extending the olive branch and an attempt to come to a resolution and was so mad with myself that I broke my own boundary and opened up a message from her (after telling myself I wouldn't) only to be faced with more rubbish. I will not be fooled again.

Quote:
Learn to forgive. Most of all, yourself.
I have and I am.

Still not sure why it feels so wrong to leave things lie as they are? I don't like messy endings like this. More stuff for me to look at in therapy.

Thanks Ash for your thoughts here. Will try to remember to keep to the in the moment stuff on the board.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:27 pm 
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This is why I don't im people who have bpd. hahaha. :))

Really, I think you did well working it out Amanda. Whatever the original problem was, you may want to analyze that. But it sounds like you have become the focus of someone's hate, and that's not any fun. The best thing you can do here is just to walk away, and I think you know that. And don't allow yourself to become involved in those games anymore.

Keep in mind that no matter what happens, no matter what you are called, only you can define yourself through your own actions.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:38 pm 
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AquaLite15 wrote:
Whatever the original problem was, you may want to analyze that.


I worked through some of this in therapy today and what I originally reacted to was being spoken to in a manner that I consider to be inappropriate.The deeper stuff (my angry reaction) is about unresolved childhood anger towards people who spoke to me in a similar threatening, intimidating & invalidating manner. My T & I are continuing to work on acknowledging and letting go of this underlying stuff.

Yeah - LOL. I think I learned my lesson there.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:58 pm 
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Amanda wrote:
Ash wrote:
The root of my anger? Allowing the words of others to penetrate me, poisoning me, taking it personally. Feeling angry in response. This is child-based reactions, not adult. The anger is observable in my body - the adrenalin flowing throw my arms, the electric tension in my body, the feeling of wanting to physically lash out. I do not however need to react/respond to that & I didn't other than coming to post here later. It is old feelings being released. The feeling of anger just is/was. I don't even have to attach any meaning to it like I did in this post = I attached a meaning/reason to the angry feelings in my body = the persons message to me was the cause, which I can see now wasn't necessarily the case.

How do you stop this transference stuff from happening? Really, this is a serious question. My body responds to stuff in the present, as if it was in the past? I felt the anger of a little kid taking in the poison of the adults around her. WHen I use the tools, and separate stuff, do the wise mind thing, I feel nothing, because its not mine to own. How do you integrate the two?


Amanda,

I haven't finsihed reading your post in this thread but I am very glad to have seen the above. It gave me a good point to look at myself too.
On another board I have gotten really, and i MEAN REALLY REALLY pissed, with a couple of lousers. I tense up, get infuriated and just start to write these long-ass post/replies to them telling them how stupid and childlike they are and are being.

WOW! Between what you write and what Ash has said I see that I fall into that same role. I am so sick of being a silly little kid that keeps jumping back into the kiddie pools and having to swim in all their pee. Yuck!

I want out, I want to swing in the big pool.

My body responds to anger like that too. Similar to how it does for :guilt: :shame: and for feeling :nasty:. I have those kind of body memory things. I see now that I get a similar thing when people piss me off too. Why? I have thought it about after I write long post to them telling them how stupid they are. I am basically anti-projecting (for lack of better term/understanding). I'm not putting it on them, I am getting mad at them because I see such stupid behaviors and words from them that i hate to see in myself.

Hmm.

Anyhow, I dont send or post those replies. I usually just send them to the moderators to let them know that "Jack-Ass" and "Bitch" have pissed me off again and they are effing loosers and nobody should ever listen to them (sounds like a kid doesn't it). Finally, after about 30 minutes (or more) I seem to cool-off and kinda gt over it. I still think badly of them. They can't improve (or at least that's how i perceive it) They dont want to, They just waste time. QUIT WASTING MY TIME!

So, I dont read their threads/post anymore. Screw 'em. andI've booted them for any IM stuff and block them from PMs too.


ASH - I read your post and I just wanna say "thank you" too.

Both of you! :halo

bumpy

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:05 pm 
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dang it - i wish i could modify the above. that was Amanda's quote i had in there. I accidentally didn't delete enough of it (the part that made it seem like Ash's, I'm picky about those things). Now i know to hit the preview first. :shysmile

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