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 Post subject: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:21 pm 
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When someone says they want to "Ignore" someone else on the board, what does that exactly mean? Does it mean they won't post in that person's thread, or does it mean they don't want that person replying to their thread?

Or does it mean they won't talk to you directly? I'm not sure I understand. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:01 pm 
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Well, I guess it depends on the person. If they're talking about technically ignoring someone, that means that they add that person's name to their "Ignore" list in the user control panel. Then they won't be able to see the person's posts.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:36 pm 
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The reason I asked Trinity is because someone said they were going to "ignore" me, yet I saw that they replied to a post I had written. I'm not going to say anything about it - I was just wondering, that's all. Why say you're going to ignore someone and then reply to their posts? That's a little hyprocritical, isn't it? Oh well.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:36 am 
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When somebody is put on ignore one can still read all threads and most posts, except for those of the ignored person. Given that; I'm assuming that the person who said they were going to put you on ignore, who replied in your thread, was replying to something said by somebody else, who they aren't ignoring.

Whilst we're on the subject. I have great difficulty with peoples idea that they "own a thread" and that any discussion towards other posters in the thread is considered "hijacking." As far as I'm concerned if it's "on topic" it doesn't matter.

BG: I wonder if you are one of those people who want ALL responses and discussion to be directed towards you in your threads. Whilst I can see that sometimes, it is a good idea to create another thread for off-shoots from the original topic (and there is definitely no room for shit-flinging between members in threads), I see no reason why people can't discuss "the main issue" within a thread amongst each other. I guess I could do with brushing up on the ROE, though. My views may not comply.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:08 am 
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Yes, you are correct - the person who said she was ignoring me was replying to someone else. I don't have a problem with that - doesn't bother me in the least. I was just wondering how the ignore thing worked.

I don't think I feel I "own" any thread I begin. I like it when people discuss things with each other - it doesn't have to be aimed specifically at me. I think it's cool that threads are there to garner discussion back-and-forth amongst others. If I wanted a one-on-one I'd go to the CC.

I just wanted to know how the "ignore" thing worked - I wasn't sure. I didn't know if that meant the person who wants to ignore you doesn't respond to anything in your thread, or just to you specifically. Now I know. And as an aside, I don't think I would put an ignore on anyone. I think we all need to learn from each other and enjoy converstions with each other. I learn from so many every day. I can always choose not to respond to someone, but that's my own private business. But that said, we're all different and operate in our own ways.

Thanks for clearing this up.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:52 am 
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In my opinion, BG... an action like the one you describe here...
Quote:
The reason I asked Trinity is because someone said they were going to "ignore" me, yet I saw that they replied to a post I had written
is not at all hypocritical. It may be a matter of changing one's mind. If someone else quotes a statement of a person who has been placed on Ignore in another post, that statement will appear in the other person's post. Most likely, that's how and why she saw it. It was probably not a matter of choosing to look for your post.

On the other hand, statements like this...
Quote:
I'm not going to say anything about it - I was just wondering, that's all. Why say you're going to ignore someone and then reply to their posts? That's a little hyprocritical, isn't it? Oh well.

ARE an unprovoked attack of hostile hypocrisy, IMO.

I have now watched you engage in this pattern of hostility vs thirteen separate people in the past two years. At least four of them being BPDR members. I have not seen one step, not one action of work, toward recovery from that pattern.

If I were in a position to restrict a person's access I would do it in a minute in this case and for this reason. Since I'm not in a position to do that, I will not subject myself to witnessing any more unprovoked attacks. For this reason I have now put Bordergirl and her Popcorn Gang sidekick on "ignore".

Permanently.

I'm not doing this to hurt you. I do not judge you. I simply cannot watch it go on anymore. I hope you will find your path to recovery soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:06 am 
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I don't understand IBF. I am not being hostile. I just wanted to learn.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:59 am 
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13 separate people? Seems a bit obsessive to have an exact number in this instance. Why the counting?

Bordergirl, I don't see that bit that Ibfuddled quoted as being hypocritical or hostile. So, I disagree with him. Of course, I can't get in your head to see which of us is closer to the truth. But there is obviously room for subjectivity as far as how it looks from the outside.

Personally, I think if I were going to put someone on ignore, I'd just do it without saying anything. Saying somethings seems more drama than productive, in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:23 am 
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If I was going to put someone on ignore, I'd tell them so they wouldn't waste time trying to speak to me afterwards.

At the same time, IBF, your post comes across to me as a parting shot. In the ROE it says "Hit-and-run is not effective communication. If we say something challenging, we need to be willing to accept the challenges that come right back to us and dignify the people we're talking to with the respect of dialogue." Also, I've not noticed you speak of this issue before, at least not in such a strong way, yet it's sounds like it's been a problem for you for a while. Do you think you may have been storing things up, so all the similar events in the past come back out here?


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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:13 am 
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Hey BG,

I can kind of see where IBF is coming from, although I don't want to make any assumptions about your intentions. :)

What struck me when reading your post is that if you wanted to know what the other person meant by "ignore", or whether they'd changed their mind, you could have asked them directly for clarification. They really are the only person that can answer that question for you.

On the other hand, if you just wanted to know how the ignore function works, you could have asked the question and got the answer you needed without mentioning the situation with the other person.

It's probably just a communication issue, but your first post really looked to me as if you were asking the board as a whole (or the CLs) to explain what one unnamed person had meant, and when you think about it, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Imagine you'd told someone you were going to ignore them, and then they posted something like this. Wouldn't you wonder if it was intended to be some kind of snide attack? I know I would. I'd try not to make assumptions or take things personally, but I'd still wonder... and it would be bound to affect my relationship with the other person.

Btw, I haven't read many posts on the board lately, so I don't know who the other person is or what was said.

But it's often more effective to think about exactly what it is you want, and who's the best person to ask, and then ask them directly.

Meant in the best possible way. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:34 pm 
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whoa, ibf who is the "popcorn gang sidekick"? am i owning something i shouldnt by thinking this could be me?

why the hostility, ibf? ouch. why has this triggered you? and if indeed you mean me, what did i do to you? we were doing so good! this hurts. i have tried really hard with communicating here.

so whats the deal?

i think BG just wondered why someone would put someone on ignore and then undo it. she doesnt know how to ask this to the person. she may be afraid. its tough to ask someone something up front. its hard to learn.

ban her for this thread? come on, now, ibf.

i am not curious about why someone would say one thing and do another. im used to it and have learned to cope since i have it in real life. it was meant only to try to hurt someone, and i have learned to not own that. maybe BG hasnt yet.

compassion, people!!! what is going on??? why the meanness?

if you dont reply here, i will ask you in CC if you mean me in your above post.

"""""If I were in a position to restrict a person's access I would do it in a minute in this case and for this reason. Since I'm not in a position to do that, I will not subject myself to witnessing any more unprovoked attacks. For this reason I have now put Bordergirl and her Popcorn Gang sidekick on "ignore".

Permanently. """""

btw, BG was attacked in a CC and you or no one said a word. NOW you say something? what is up with that?

why are you triggered, ibf?

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:18 pm 
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echoselikehorses wrote:
On the other hand, if you just wanted to know how the ignore function works, you could have asked the question and got the answer you needed without mentioning the situation with the other person.

This is exactly what I was talking about in the thread about side issues coming in to cloud communication and distract from core issues. The core issue, on the surface, was that BG wanted to know what "ignore" meant/did.

By tossing in the specifics of the situation -- "this person said they'd ignore me but then posted to someone else in my thread" -- we're now no longer on the actual topic of "how does the ignore feature work" but we've moved into a side-realm of picking apart what someone else did and why they did it.

If the true core issue was "how do I better tolerate when I see something hypocritical" then that could have quite easily been discussed without mentioning the specifics ("this person said they'd ignore me but then posted to someone else in my thread") at all.

Quote:
I'm not going to say anything about it - I was just wondering, that's all. Why say you're going to ignore someone and then reply to their posts? That's a little hyprocritical, isn't it? Oh well.

Isn't there hypocrisy in saying "I'm not going to say anything about it but they said this, then they did that and it seems bass-ackwards to me but oh well"?

Again, BG, it does come across that you're looking to incite support for something -- a crusade against the hypocrisy of others, even though you seem to do some of it yourself -- rather than actually focusing on your own issues ... learning what the function means, dealing directly with the person whose motives you question, exploring hypocrisy yourself.

Side note to Jody: why are you getting in the middle of BG's stuff? Why are you trying to take up the crusade on her behalf? Don't you have enough drama to deal with in you own 3-D life? Why do you feel the need to come in and tell us what BG is thinking, feeling, capable of doing, explaining to us why BG did something, etc.?

jodyisme wrote:
BG just wondered why someone would put someone on ignore and then undo it. she doesnt know how to ask this to the person.

jodyisme wrote:
BG was attacked in a CC and you or no one said a word. NOW you say something? what is up with that?

IF BG felt attacked, she could have said something to someone in a position to do something about it.

IF she said something to you who can do nothing about it, that's gossip pure and simple.

IF you're just conjecturing that BG was attacked / felt attacked, you could have chosen to butt out of it & let BG handle her own life her own way or you could have clicked the "Report This Post" button (the ! icon) that's present in every single post on this board and it would have brought it to the attention of the S/CL Team for review and resolution, if necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:37 pm 
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Ellen and Stoneglow, I appreciate your comments and questions and am replying here only because it would be rude not to. Trying to keep with the practice of not referring to third parties in my posts, I can only discuss what I was thinking when I posted.

Quote:
13 separate people? Seems a bit obsessive to have an exact number in this instance. Why the counting?

Why? Two reasons. One is that in a statement like I made, it seemed to me that a specific number would be more helpful or effective than to say something like "a bunch". The second reason was to check my thinking on the matter and make sure it was "a bunch.' The first time I counted was seconds before I typed it. And I stopped counting at 13 though I could have spent a bit of time and found a few more. You may call that obsessive if you wish. I don't think of it that way.
Quote:
Personally, I think if I were going to put someone on ignore, I'd just do it without saying anything.
I can see both sides of this, and I considered both for some time. I chose this approach because in this case it seemed the more effective choice. In other cases, I have not mentioned it.

Quote:
At the same time, IBF, your post comes across to me as a parting shot. In the ROE it says "Hit-and-run is not effective communication. If we say something challenging, we need to be willing to accept the challenges that come right back to us and dignify the people we're talking to with the respect of dialogue.Do you think you may have been storing things up, so all the similar events in the past come back out here?
Yep, Stoneglow, it does have a bit of that parting shot smell to it. The history is that I have sucked up my feelings about this practice and engaged on this matter in constructive and healthy ways many times with total futility. In the end, I decided that this approach would likely be much less painful than going through all the details necessary to support my point should it be challenged. Still, I recognize that it does not comply with the ROE. And while my frustration on the matter has built, I don't think I've been storing it up. I think I've worked hard to keep a healthy viewpoint about it, although I have not been entirely successful.

Thank you both for your feedback. It will be helpful for me to keep it in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:44 pm 
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ibfuddled wrote:
The history is that I have sucked up my feelings about this practice and engaged on this matter in constructive and healthy ways many times with total futility. In the end, I decided that this approach would likely be much less painful than going through all the details necessary to support my point should it be challenged. Still, I recognize that it does not comply with the ROE. And while my frustration on the matter has built, I don't think I've been storing it up. I think I've worked hard to keep a healthy viewpoint about it, although I have not been entirely successful.



Totally understood. Sometimes we aren't in places with ourselves where we want to or feel as if we can, give that much and keep offering our necks to be sucked on Futilely. And, sometimes it's important for us to speak up about our own thoughts and feelings, and not suck them up and allow the resentment and anger to build. It needs to be aired. For me, it has been a balance, one of listening to myself and what I can allow, that is best for me. And right now, if I try to give too much, it isn't right for my own growth. I'm not in a place where it won't build resentment and anger within. I strive for what I think is an even score, and if it is not, I start to become angry. I want fairness and equality, and constructive and positive growth. I still need to do a lot of things for myself before I can give more than I am receiving (although I give kudos to those who can).

It's also against my creedo to allow it to happen, for extended periods of time. It becomes enabling. I don't think I knew that until recently.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:54 pm 
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IBF, if you had to "suck up your feelings" to engage on the matter before, was it really constructive and healthy? I'm hearing that you hid your frustration until it was too much, while still talking to the people concerned in a nice way; and then jumped to "no contact".

I can understand that the "parting shot" approach you've taken here may be less painful than the alternatives. However, the less painful approach isn't always the healthier one. Since we're here to learn and discuss healthier ways of doing things, I'm here saying that I think it's not healthy.

Aqua said "sometimes it's important for us to speak up about our own thoughts and feelings, and not suck them up and allow the resentment and anger to build". I agree with that part. And I think it's best done early; firstly so the resentment's not built up so much and it's easier to do this in a healthy way; and secondly so you're not dropping the bomb on the other person after a long period of pretending things were OK. Still, if it's done late, I think it's important to stay and face the consequences.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:49 pm 
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IBF, if you had to "suck up your feelings" to engage on the matter before, was it really constructive and healthy? I'm hearing that you hid your frustration until it was too much, while still talking to the people concerned in a nice way; and then jumped to "no contact".

On the surface, if I didn't know the background details, I'd think it looked this way as well. While my post may not have been very constructive and healthy, it was the most constructive and healthy of the alternatives I considered.

Quote:
However, the less painful approach isn't always the healthier one. Since we're here to learn and discuss healthier ways of doing things, I'm here saying that I think it's not healthy.
I agree with the first sentence. As to the second, I have attempted to discuss healthier ways of dealing with these issues, directly with the subjects many many times during my stay here.

Quote:
And I think it's best done early; firstly so the resentment's not built up so much and it's easier to do this in a healthy way; and secondly so you're not dropping the bomb on the other person after a long period of pretending things were OK.
I agree completely and know I have work to do on this behavior pattern. In this case, I believe there is no "bomb" and no pretending as I see it. I have been challenging these practices directly for more than a year. Normally I'll ask and check on thinking and intent and sometimes I've changed my POV after hearing an explanation. Sometimes I became more empathic while keeping my opinion that a post was inappropriate and harmful. Usually I've suggested alternatives or ways a person could use The Tools or other resources for greater effectiveness. I have tried to disagree without being disagreeable.

Finally, today I gave up on being able to help bring about healthy changes.

But I strongly believe that unprovoked attacks should not be permitted at BPDR. In the past two days I have seen several posts wherein people created a conversation about an uncontroversial subject and used that conversation to take a shot at a third person who was not directly involved. The first time I saw it, yesterday, I pointed it out and asked for it to be stopped when my posts were involved. This time, less than twenty four hours later, was the last straw for me.

I cannot and perhaps should not encourage BPDR to make this sort of thing stop. But I can stop exposing myself to it and that's what I've done. Perhaps it's not the best of choices, I know. It was the most effective choice I could come up with at the time. I'm tempted by your reasoning, to come back into the conversation and take the heat and make my points, but am not yet convinced that's the best choice for anyone. I will continue to consider it and thank you for your contribution here. I know you are genuinely trying to help us all, including me. I will continue to try to take your feedback to heart and apply it.

If I had it to do all over again, I would have spent a LOT more time with the 5 Steps and 4 Agreements before I launched that post. I did spend some time thoughtfully working those, but admit that Emotion Mind had the edge in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:43 am 
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AquaLite15 wrote:
ibfuddled wrote:
The history is that I have sucked up my feelings about this practice and engaged on this matter in constructive and healthy ways many times with total futility. In the end, I decided that this approach would likely be much less painful than going through all the details necessary to support my point should it be challenged. Still, I recognize that it does not comply with the ROE. And while my frustration on the matter has built, I don't think I've been storing it up. I think I've worked hard to keep a healthy viewpoint about it, although I have not been entirely successful.



Totally understood. Sometimes we aren't in places with ourselves where we want to or feel as if we can, give that much and keep offering our necks to be sucked on Futilely. And, sometimes it's important for us to speak up about our own thoughts and feelings, and not suck them up and allow the resentment and anger to build. It needs to be aired. For me, it has been a balance, one of listening to myself and what I can allow, that is best for me. And right now, if I try to give too much, it isn't right for my own growth. I'm not in a place where it won't build resentment and anger within. I strive for what I think is an even score, and if it is not, I start to become angry. I want fairness and equality, and constructive and positive growth. I still need to do a lot of things for myself before I can give more than I am receiving (although I give kudos to those who can).

It's also against my creedo to allow it to happen, for extended periods of time. It becomes enabling. I don't think I knew that until recently.



I don't think I explained myself correctly here. I don't mind giving, and like it, when I am receiving Something. Anything, and that thing can be the smallest amount of appreciation or understanding. When someone is not doing either of those, I find it hard to give (and I don't think I should, for me). If I overextend myself, I feel it. My self wants that part back... and that's when I get angry.

I think I overextended myself... and I think that's what ibf may've done. And when that happens with no results, it really is a big pissy place to be. Which is why I mentioned a balance.... I realize that what I did was wrong for me. And, I realize that I don't see anyone else here doing it, which gives me the clue that what I did was not where the balance lies, (not only that, but also in the fact that my self is screaming at me for doing it lol).

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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:15 pm 
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Hi IBF. I'm glad that you found some use in my feedback, and that you decided not to stick to the "parting shot" approach.

So, I'm hearing that in your mind there was plenty of warning and there is no "bomb". I don't think there's any way to bridge our perspectives on that without digging up specific examples, so looks like we have to agree to disagree there.

I have been thinking for a while that there's a difference between "I'm trying to help you with this" and "this is a problem for me"; and that these things are often confused with each other and with other things besides. I might write a general thread about that when I've thought about it some more.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:58 pm 
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Quote:
I have been thinking for a while that there's a difference between "I'm trying to help you with this" and "this is a problem for me"; and that these things are often confused with each other and with other things besides. I might write a general thread about that when I've thought about it some more.


I think that would be a terrific thread. It is tricky some times to keep those thoughts separate and to be really clear about our thoughts and feelings as we go. I have struggled with it a long time. I'd really welcome a thread like that.

What I generally try to do is be clear about what is bothering me and then move toward offering some help and empathy if that seems warranted and wanted.

One of the other combinations that seems to get mixed up sometimes is about perception and interpretation, particularly with personalizing thoughts offered by others.

e.g. Polite, courteous, empathic statements = liking and understanding and sharing common values to some.

Statements that are perceived as critical = dislike, hatred, nasty, etc.

I've had it work both ways multiple times in the course of a day, and neither were accurate.

I look forward to reading a tread you would begin. Thanks again for your feedback about the original issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:27 pm 
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AquaLite15 wrote:
AquaLite15 wrote:
ibfuddled wrote:
The history is that I have sucked up my feelings about this practice and engaged on this matter in constructive and healthy ways many times with total futility. In the end, I decided that this approach would likely be much less painful than going through all the details necessary to support my point should it be challenged. Still, I recognize that it does not comply with the ROE. And while my frustration on the matter has built, I don't think I've been storing it up. I think I've worked hard to keep a healthy viewpoint about it, although I have not been entirely successful.



Totally understood. Sometimes we aren't in places with ourselves where we want to or feel as if we can, give that much and keep offering our necks to be sucked on Futilely. And, sometimes it's important for us to speak up about our own thoughts and feelings, and not suck them up and allow the resentment and anger to build. It needs to be aired. For me, it has been a balance, one of listening to myself and what I can allow, that is best for me. And right now, if I try to give too much, it isn't right for my own growth. I'm not in a place where it won't build resentment and anger within. I strive for what I think is an even score, and if it is not, I start to become angry. I want fairness and equality, and constructive and positive growth. I still need to do a lot of things for myself before I can give more than I am receiving (although I give kudos to those who can).

It's also against my creedo to allow it to happen, for extended periods of time. It becomes enabling. I don't think I knew that until recently.



I don't think I explained myself correctly here. I don't mind giving, and like it, when I am receiving Something. Anything, and that thing can be the smallest amount of appreciation or understanding. When someone is not doing either of those, I find it hard to give (and I don't think I should, for me). If I overextend myself, I feel it. My self wants that part back... and that's when I get angry.

I think I overextended myself... and I think that's what ibf may've done. And when that happens with no results, it really is a big pissy place to be. Which is why I mentioned a balance.... I realize that what I did was wrong for me. And, I realize that I don't see anyone else here doing it, which gives me the clue that what I did was not where the balance lies, (not only that, but also in the fact that my self is screaming at me for doing it lol).



Interesting.... because I am realizing that if only I had accepted that regardless of what I said, it might NOT make a difference or be understood or appreciated, I may not have felt that way. I think I felt angry because I didn't Accept the fact that it might not happen that way before I did it. I set myself up for a fall.

_________________
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ---Winston Churchill

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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 Post subject: Re: Ignoring People on the Board
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:59 pm 
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Bordergirl, I have plenty to say on this subject but do not want to post it. PM me if you like .... and I hope you decide to stay.
kind regards,
rainbutterfly


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