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i was reading a thread amanda had done and it was very interesting, albeit a bit deep for me in the way it was written. (why is mental things written so damn convoluted? lol)

but sharing the test score, i realized something. i didnt want to elaborate on how i thought.

why? im tired of it picked apart on here (at times). im tired of my honesty in my work being viewed as no progress. people need to realize on HERE, what they may see is my worst stuff. my work on it. my honesty about it. instead, it seems it has created a jody i dont even recognize, as someone who isnt healing, who isnt even working or trying, and who is driving others crazy by being myself and working on me.

this bothers me. yes, its my stuff that it does bother me. yes, one of the keys is not to own anothers stuff, or take things personally, but, BUT. this is one of my key issues, that i have to learn how to think and judge for myself and not pay much attention to others. and damn, it is so hard for me to do that consistently.

so more to work on. unfortunately, being as open as i have been in the past is going to suffer. i just cant do both at once and listen to others views of how i fail, while trying to stop owning their stuff. sorta like digging a hole in loose sand...ya know?

i dont mind being open in pm, if i can help another. but public, i dont think so. it threatens others too much, i think. shrug* dont really know, as no one ever says the reasoning. but the twisted ideas of what im like...shakes head* dont get it. maybe i dont need to/

yes, it teaches me to not take shit personally.. i can say thank you, tho, as it gives me more food for working on that key issue. (but no seconds, please, lol)

yep, its my issue on how i react to it. and its very hard to learn and do. but by God, i will!

Hi Jody,

I'm one who processes a lot of my stuff in a very different way and don't always strictly follow the CBT-way. A lot of my processing if it doesn't directly involve working the tools used here, then I don't usually try to process it or share it, here. The way I choose to process my stuff isn't right or wrong. It just is, and the proof for me is in my progress, regardless of whether others see that or not. The way you process stuff, if it helps you; then it isn't wrong. It's just different. I believe you when you say that you are making progress, "your way." I know I made a ton of progress doing it "my way."

This is an example of the "Sociocentricity" stuff that I read about:



I think what folks here take exception to is the fact that you want to process your stuff, your way, and not do it "the board way." You want to go against the "group think." It may be that the members of this group don't know any other way, or are so strongly convinced that CBT is the be-all, end-all, so they'll fight you to the death, that they are right and you are wrong. (Or perhaps they're like me and process in different ways off-board & take exception to you processing in your own way, on the board?) I don't know if I'm correct in my observation? but maybe you've been continuing to process in your way (in spite of the basic tenets of the board) trying to get the "group think" gang to see that you're right and they're wrong? The reality is; neither is totally right or totally wrong.

I guess what I'm saying to you Jody is: Processing your way is fine. In fact, I think it's great. I personally relate to processing in a way that is unique to me (I'm an unique individual and don't see how a one-size fits all recovery method could apply.) But, at BPDR, in order to participate and "not be picked on", one has to stick to the rules and use the processing methods - the tools used here. There will always be folks who will take exception to you going against the board rules by processing in your way, and not the board way.

Good luck!

amanda, i asked you something in the other thread, about the egocentric thing? could you check and reply there please? if you choose, of course. its about something not connected to this.

well, maybe it is connected in a way, as i have had to learn my own way because i knew no other way but other peoples. im very resistant to that, due to my past, to adhere to a "group" or follow the flow, all that stuff. i have found my own way due to my old T and my intense desire to heal and become a better person. it works for me, which is all i care about concerning recovery..

it does bring up the other thing, where i had no self and it was forbidden to even think i might. in a way, that created in me a intense aversion to the group mentality and do it "anothers way or else". so in a way, its a good thing for me as it makes me independent and a free independent thinker.

it seems to be a fine line, to go along with the crowd as well as learn it oneself independently. i cant do both. not now, i dont know if i ever will or can. i dont see the differences, or the "rights" to make the choice, "oh this is ok to do as jane says but this isnt". i must do it my way.

i will admit, i didnt expect such ----ummm---disapproval about it. i naively thought people wouldnt care and it would show positive things about me. haha. i have noted, and not just here but in real, few like a true independent person who thinks for themselves. it is a incredible threat to many others but i dont know why since i dont judge them as wrong, i dont "get it".

but yes, it seems very threatening and i wonder why. not that it matters a lot, i really dont intend to change.

now let me ask you this? please? how am i not doing something the board way? i dont see that. i use the tools. i have no clue what my therapy is called, its never been "called" anything to me.

what rules do i break? in what way?

the only thing i tried to get anyone to see what was wrong was their own ideas about who i am as a person. that i have let go, cause it isnt important anymore. but i dont try to make anyone do anything "my way"...i sure dont think i do? dont see how i would. i only post how x or y has helped me, is all. why would anyone care as long as it helps?

hey, amanda, thanks for this. i appreciate your responses and views.

btw, i only posted this because it struck me how i didnt want to be open any longer describing myself. here i sit, doing it anyways (LOL) but i dont want to. i dont need to any longer. i just found it odd i changed...and didnt know it till now.

had i not had to fight so hard to survive against becoming "part of another" maybe i wouldnt have this independent streak so deeply ingrained in me. but being "part of the group" for me still means i will vanish and i cant have that. not after keeping it from happening for 50 years!

your example, i have never been that way. i call it non competitive but maybe im off on that somehow? i was never into blah is better than your blah. i just dont care as long as mine is working, then im cool with whoever is better. i never had that trait to be competitive.

hm, is this a key to this whole thing? because i dont have that trait?

sorry, i seem to be picking your brain a lot tonite!

People at BPDR pick apart what you say and they need to see things differently. Uhm, that's not exactly "your stuff" as you say it is, Jody. That's shifting the blame to those around you.

Your stuff isn't that people pick apart your posts. Your stuff is that you let it bother you so much. Perhaps there's something to be gained by continuing to post honestly, allowing that nit-picking to occur, so that you can work on separating your stuff, not taking things personally, shrugging off the nit-picking instead of (lather, rinse, repeat) clamming up and telling everyone how you're clamming up.

You've deftly shifted the responsibility for being unable to refrain from taking things personally (i.e., someone else's opinion is something worth fighting against, proving them wrong, etc.) at the feet of everyone else (i.e., those here who pick apart your honest posts) and you've made yourself into a martyr (i.e., you're no longer able to be honest here) and blamed it on the board.

I'm not coming down hard on you. I don't want to chase you with a cast iron skillet. I don't loathe and despise the very sight of you.

I'm sharing my perspective of your words, actions and areas where you could improve untwisting.

If it doesn't ring true for you, that's your decision to make. There's nothing to fight here. I see it how I see it and that doesn't make me wrong because I don't define your reality for you.

I'll take a look when I have some more time. I'm heading off to work shortly.



I don't really understand then, why you want to be a member of BPDR? This board teaches "this way - the CBT way" and doesn't accomodate for any other way. SO if you don't want to follow the group and do stuff the CBT way, then what do you gain from being here? Please be very aware that I'm not disputing or arguing against the benefits of processing in one's own way. I am such a strong believer in finding my own way, but at the same time have been able to incorporate the CBT way into my process.



Yeah, it is a fine line between following the crowd, whilst maintaining ones individuality. Perhaps you can't do both, at this stage, but there might come a time when you can. I remember feeling/thinking the same way, Jody. "What was wrong with me processing my way? How did this make me bad/wrong?" I remember wanting to rebel against the "group think" because CBT didn't seem to be the answer for me. I remember wanting to process "my way" and being met with the same criticism, judgements, attacks like I see happening to you. I didn't actually see how CBT could help me at all, at that time. So, I continued to process my way, and eventually I was able to see how CBT could fit into my recovery process.



There are many here who have no problem with your processing style. I for one, have no issue with it. It doesn't worry me at all how anyone chooses to process. Doing what is best/right for them, and so long as they themselves can feel/see progress that's all that matters. I really can't say I understand why some are threatened by those who don't follow the crowd. I don't really need to understand it. It just is. I think there are extremes coming into this Jody. Strictly following the crowd, resisting following the crowd and being totally independent, and the grey interdependence - a mixture of doing your own thing, and following the beliefs of the group.



You want the honest answer here? I really feel uncomfortable pointing this out to you, because I know that the way you process is to come to your own understanding/insight about your issues; you appear to not like having your flaws pointed out to you; and you have a tendency to fight off or defend yourself (as if you're being attacked) - It seems when another points something out to you, that is hard to hear about yourself, you feel hurt, and then go on the attack, as if you believe that the person has purposely hurt you. Rather than saying "Their words have touched something in me and it hurts to hear this, but maybe there is some truth in what they are saying to me, and rather than seeing it as an attack on me, and that "i'm bad", I can accept that I'm human with flaws, and can perhaps see this as something I want to change and as a challenge to overcome."

I still struggle with this too, when somebody feels a need to point out some flaw in me. I don't understand the need to do that (although I'm now guilty in this thread of doing the very thing that I don't personally understand or like, but only because you asked.) I'm more into the "self-healing capacity within" theory, finding and seeing ones own flaws, accepting them and changing them for me, not somebody else. I'm more into lookly deeply within myself and getting to know myself, than looking outside of me, at others and looking for their flaws. I tend to lean more towards accepting people as they are, warts and all; and trusting that they'll find their own way, see their own flaws, figure out their own answers; just as I trust that I will find mine.

I don't think the personal attacks such as calling people names and labelling x, y or z, is helpful to anyone. I agree with that, but often what I see happening is somebody says something and you read it as labelling you something, when in fact they are only describing a behaviour, not who you are as a person. Your filters hear "personal attack" when there has been no personal attack. In other words, I don't see you using the tools a lot of the time, and put blame on the person who is pointing the behaviour out to you for hurting your feelings, instead of recognising that your reaction, is your stuff and that you can change your reaction by using the tools. I guess a big thing to think about here would be: When somebody points out an error in my behaviour to me, they are not saying I am X, Y or Z (that's the old tapes from my parents playing out) The behaviour is separate from who the person is. I guess I can see further growth with using the tools here. As Ash said:

interesting, amanda and i thank you for the honesty and sharing! i will ponder this to find the middle ground. as i said, i just dont know if im there yet or not to see it.

i hate to be ignorant..lol..i dont know what CBT is! my counseling has never had a label as such. i dont know what ANY of them are, altho the home page here says everyone welcome with any type counseling. i could find that link if you want...hang on...""""Regardless of the type of therapy you've chosen or may be considering choosing - psychoanalysis, EMDR, DBT, CBT or something else entirely - this site is here to help you deal with Borderline Personality Disorder issues. As a peer-support group, we offer support, discussion, tips, advice and encouragement. """ from this page...http://www.bpdrecovery.com/

and this..."""This is a safe arena for those with mental illnesses and disorders (specifically BPD) to share concerns, voice opinions, seek like-minded individuals, work toward recovery, discuss medications and therapy approaches, and explore the impact of their illness(es) have had on their life and the lives of their loved ones. As mentioned, you need not have a formal diagnosis to participate or benefit from the resources offered here. All are welcome. """ same page...btw.

someday i must find out what CBT is...i guess. i will remind myself to ask my new T what she calls what we do in session......

yeah, amanda, this is one long road to work out, eh? i so do appreciate your views, because you, of anyone, understand what i feel or why--

why am i a member? because at the beginning, it was all i had. i dont have support as such in real life, only my counselor (the new one who doesnt know me yet) and ummm...well, nothing else. i realized how i identified with the subject. how it was me. how i could be open here and work and the tips to aid me in working thru things and finding better alternatives to my behavior. since then, in my own mind, i have come a long ways and learned a ton. i have made some good friends here who have helped me. i have met some here who relate as i could never find anyone in real. honestly, regardless of the few problems here, i have learned a ton here and love most of the people who come, stay or go. i have learned a ton from everyone, regardless of how they view me. maybe more from the ones it seems to be a conflict with. i have had to learn a lot and i think i have, from ALL interactions.

""" I think there are extremes coming into this Jody.""". oh, i totally agree, its one thing i am working on. to find that GRAY. elusive little thing it is sometimes. i strive for it with this...it would be a very important piece for my well being and self.

i realize it could APPEAR i dont like my flaws pointed out, but as i think we have discussed, its the HOW and not the fact itself. i can listen well to many who do it and i take it under consideration and think and work on it. sometimes i win and sometimes i lose if it doesnt stick. but its actually the how its presented, versus the fact it is presented or not. (finally figured that one out)

""""when somebody feels a need to point out some flaw in me. I don't understand the need to do that (although I'm now guilty in this thread of doing the very thing that I don't personally understand or like, but only because you asked.) I'm more into the "self-healing capacity within" theory, finding and seeing ones own flaws, accepting them and changing them for me, not somebody else. I'm more into lookly deeply within myself and getting to know myself, than looking outside of me, at others and looking for their flaws. I tend to lean more towards accepting people as they are, warts and all; and trusting that they'll find their own way, see their own flaws, figure out their own answers; just as I trust that I will find mine. """""

we agree on that. 100%. i dont find myself pointing out anothers flaws much...i just dont feel its my place to do. maybe i suggest things at times, but not with a "you do this and you are xxx because of it" type stuff. that may just be us... but i like being that way. i know i dont do well with a direct "jody, you do x and you are y" type statement. smacks too much of walking on water is the next chapter to me...which again is MY own stuff.

yes, i asked and i wanted to know your views. thank you again! i knew i was in a good place to hear them and they would be valuable for me. i shall continue my work on me. thanks for your time spent typing here...i know time is hard to find sometimes.

My thoughts on that welcome message is: It's a little bit mis-leading. You can come here, regardless of the type of therapy you've chosen and you can discuss the type of therapy chosen (This bit is fine.) What I'd like to see added onto that is: but you cannot practice any other form of therapy here, except the tools (CBT) on the left, when dealing with an issue.

Well it is nice to hear that you've learned from others here and also to hear that you generally like most people. I'm being honest with you again, but I notice a pattern for you of focusing on those that you don't like. The ignore function is great for allowing one to step away from those who we seem to clash with, until one can get a better understanding of why you feel the way you do. It could be that they trigger you (remind you of somebody in the past), or it could just as easily be, that you find their personality or style of communicating unpleasant to you (in which case, I find it helps to undertand why they are the way they are, and to feel some compassion for them, for being that way.) Or it could be that you see some behaviour in them, that you haven't yet recognised in yourself (In this case, when I recognise it in myself and can accept it in myself, I then can change it, and I then find myself being more accepting of it in others.)



Cool! Yeah, presentation makes a big difference for me too.

(((Jody))),

I'm not sure if I can write coherently what I'm thinking, but I'll try. First, I am not trying to make your thread into a " support Jody vs criticize Jody". I just want to say the way I feel about you, CBT, and the board since I've had issues with the CBT thing too.

I don't have issues with you the way others do. I know that you know that. I see you as struggling to grow, and I do think you have made much progress in the time I've "known you". I've always admired you for your straightforwardness and individuality, and I've never understood why you get "picked on" so much.

When I first discovered the board, I didn't know it had anything to do with CBT-cognitive behavioral therapy. If I had, maybe I would have run away quickly, LOL because I always rebelled against CBT in my own therapy. I needed to talk things out, to have my T listen to me, to be supported in my baby steps. I didn't want to write down thoughts and untwist them.

So I didn't use the tools; I didn't even read them for a long time. I just wrote about my therapy and attachment to my T, and found others who supported me. But I also read about others who used the tools, and remembered back in therapy when I was taught some CBT. When you talk about twisted thinking, or not taking things personally, that's CBT. Owning your own stuff, too. So you ARE using CBT whether you know it or not! All of the tools are based on CBT.

I think most Ts are more eclectic these days: they incorporate a little bit of everything in trying to help us. You didn't do iner child work all the time, did you? When you worked on practical issues, I wonder if your T didn't use some CBT without calling it that.

I disagree, Amanda, with saying that you have to "use" CBT on the board. I've never found that to be true. No matter what the tools are, most people who come to BPDR, I think, just want a place to be themselves and to be heard, and to feel like others understand what they are going through. Using the tools usually comes later on, if at all. If they work, fine. They are certainly an excellent resource and worth trying out. But Ash never said they are the "only way".

I agree with you both, Jody and Amanda, as to the "how" it's presented as being crucial. I hate to be criticized, and in threads where I have been, I have gotten defensive right away. I also hated for my T to be criticized. But there's a way of suggesting, offering ideas, that does not say "I am right and you are wrong." That does not imply "You are a bad person and are not using the tools and have not learned anything from the board". I don't think anyone has a right to judge our progress except ourselves, really. I also agree with Ash. Maybe you can try ignoring those who "pick apart your posts" and maybe they will stop. I'm not saying that's easy!

I'm not sure I've said what I wanted to. Maybe my main point is that we are not mental health professionals, and we all need to remember that. We are individuals, with different learning styles. We come here for peer support, not for therapy. Many people, probably including myself, want to help others so badly that we think we have the answers for them. But we don't! We can say what we see, but that doesn't mean we have to judge another, and certainly not act like we are therapists.

((wondering)) thanks for sharing all that. very helpful to hear your views.

to answer a few things, no, i dont or didnt do inner child work all the time. i do all kinds of things, i just dont label them as anything in particular. one of my core things is i (try) to stop. think. examine. how am i feeling? where is it from? now what can i do about it? sorta like the 5 steps. i do this a LOT. but almost all my stuff goes back to inner child, eventually. that is where most all my issues come from. healing her lets them go away. i dont need the defenses anymore so much.

i dont feel picked on (at) any longer. i let it all go. i dont "own" it any longer. not my problem-- until anyone can speak to me respectfully, then i will listen. boundaries! other than that, i find it sad. but people as such dont bother me any more on here if they melt down at me. i would rather it was at me than someone else who isnt as ready to handle it. it could be damaging to someone else.

the thing my main theme was on this thread is i found i dont have the need i had to be so open. of course, even not needing it, i have been and am working on stuff in this thread. but the "need" to prove, explain, is almost gone. i found that to be GREAT! slowly i am becoming me, and liking her. i can clearly see some of my issues and can work on them.

does this mean their gone? oh hell no. just that i am finally at the place i can see some of them and the whys and such. im sure more will surface! their all connected.

i guess i was just sharing a step i have taken and hadnt realized i had. along with wondering (pardon pun) why others seem to need to do that. (again, im talking in real also, not only here)

the thing about you saying me being picked on or i prefer "at". it taught me a ton. and now i just let it go, happen or not. huge step for me who was taught to the core that others are all that matter and i can control how happy someone is or isnt. and when they arent happy, its my born duty (the only one) to make them happy.

just huge steps for me to be past this, mostly. so without it, i wouldnt have learned what i have or come farther than before. i have found just because someone has issues with me, (not meaning here, necessarily but anywhere) it really doesnt matter. talk about relief to learn that one! big one for abuse survivors to learn.

you made lots of sense in your post and i agree. thanks for sharing it. thanks for caring!

im not ignoring your post, Ash, and i appreciate the time you took to type it. i didnt want to be rude.

to be honest tho, i am just not in a place to discuss things you say or with you. you swing too inconsistently with me as a person and i never know which day it will be or what mood your in. it is just too hard for me to keep up with. anyone who does this is very hard for me to interact with, not just you.

so i choose to not respond in depth...also because no matter what i say you just wont let go of your views about me. its just too much to continue to try to show you im not who you think i am. and it is way too painful to hear your words about me. (the times we can speak civilly make the other times even more painful for me) it sets me back and i cant allow that --my progress is too difficult to achieve to endanger it.

thanks for understanding in advance..jody

So what would you have thought if someone other than Ash had posted thoughts similar to hers, Jody? Would you have taken some time to consider what they were saying? Do you just shut out whatever Ash says as soon as you see her name, or do you at least *try* to think about her message?

As for CBT, have you even attempted to find out what it means? It's not hard to find information if you really wanted to know -- try, for instance, Wikipedia. This is the first thing that comes up if you just google "cbt." There's quite a bit of info there, including this simple explanation: That pretty much sums it up. It's not voodoo or gobbledegook.

http://www.bpdrecovery.com/modules.php? ... ent&tid=26

http://www.nacbt.org/whatiscbt.htm

Jody, since you've decided I'm too inconsistent for you, I trust that means you find me too inconsistent to approach me with questions, open new threads, post to me, send PMs to me. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I have always been blunt, straightforward, direct.

I have always been focused on recovery, personal responsibility and accountability.

I have always been myself.

I am sorry you see me as inconsistent though I understand how it could be finnagled into that perspective with enough effort.

Wondering, thank you for your perspective and words about CBT, especially about their role at BPDR and my focus on the approaches that work for people.

Sari, i wont discuss another board member with you, or anyone. hypothethical situations i dont think would be helpful. should you wish to discuss my own views or feelings about certain situations concerning ME, please feel free to ask.

i find i have been doing CBT! how cool is that? i dont use labels in my counseling, no T has ever brought it up, so i just didnt know what it stood for. had i felt i needed to know, i certainly would have done a search and read on it. what i do works for me, which is the whole purpose of recovery. if it didnt, i would suggest someone keep trying ideas until they find what makes sense to them and use it daily. i use the tools here constantly, several times daily, the separation of stuff, the feelings, all that. they are invaluable to help change my behaviors. i also point out to every new person i speak to, to check out the Tool Box.

never said or thought anything was "voodoo", not sure where you got that idea from. like EMDR, we have few in texas who even do that. i figured CBT was the same, as some even take classes in DBT, for instance. its not offered here in texas, near me for sure.

Ash, i have no animosity at all. you told me a few weeks ago (i think? lost track of time) not to pm you, etc. i havent.
things like this """"I am sorry you see me as inconsistent though I understand how it could be finnagled into that perspective with enough effort.""" i dont find helpful. with my time constraints now, i dont have a lot of time to sort thru things. and words like the above still sting and i dont have time to sort thru that, focus on pain, and work on recovery also. i have respected your request before, and of course will again.

Wondering, Ash. Whomever. I still stand by my belief that one is only permitted to process in the CBT way. I've seen newbies come here recently. Their chosen path was to dig into the past and yet this is the response they get:


I think several others tried to hammer home the same message and this person had been here for only 5 minutes. Not very welcoming IMHO. He wasn't even given a chance to feel his way around the place.

Working through past issues/life experiences is another way towards happy, healthy living. Staying focused on the present isn't the only way.

Jody - have you wondered that it, maybe it's as simple as CBT not being effective for the treatment of the chronic or complex varieties of PTSD until those traumas are resolved? I'm actually sure that there is backed up evidence to support this. It can be useful for acute cases, in the moment, or shortly thereafter the trauma, but not for chronic, long-term cases or old un-integrated trauma. I found as I healed from that old stuff, and spent less time affected by it, I was more "in the moment" and the CBT stuff started to become more effective for me.

PS: Jody, this is another thing that folks seem to take exception to in your posts - writing about the past stuff - the why of the why stuff? Why? Because they don't understand how it works, have never experienced it or the benefits of it, and I guess they have no idea how to be of assistance to somebody doing this; and I guess this is why it isn't tolerated and accepted here. I learned this the hard way, many moons ago, at it would seem that you are starting to "get it" too, with discovering your recent unwillingness to share.

My advice Jody is to stick to problems that are current "in the moment", and use the CBT tools on the left to handle them. The other stuff is best done away from here. I know you said that's hard for you to do because you have no other support besides your T. I found I had the same problem, but have you considered journaling? I find it can sometimes help to just get things written down; and then going back over them when I'm in a clearer mind frame.

Amanda, I'm sorry that my words were so ... offensive? I saw the person as saying "I use my introspection time to go back into the past and hang out there, dig and dig and dig and dig, without regard to moving forward cuz all the answers are in the past" and I was trying to get them to see the benefits and value of moving forward into a healthier life instead of clinging to the damaged past. If that makes me a horrible person, well then I guess I'm a horrible person. I wasn't saying "do this or else hit the bricks." I was saying "Gee, you're new here and you're obviously upset & bothered by this stuff, you say you've been doing XYZ and you're still upset so here, let me offer ABC (or CBT) to see if you get a better result for yourself." I'm sad that you see/saw it as an all-or-nothing ultimatum.

Jody, yeah, I can see how that could be seen as snarky or bitter. It wasn't meant to be that. I was trying to share how difficult it was for me to get from Point A to where you appeared to be at Point Z. I got there (I think) but it wasn't easy for me; I was trying to relate, trying to see things from your perspective, to empathize in that bit. I'm not sure where you got that I've asked you to not to PM me because I have no record of such a request. In fact, since you had asked me directly (posted to me) in a thread, I sent you my reply in PM because I was trying to respect your concerns that direct communication in situations like that could be seen as confrontational or humiliating.

--------------------

I can't seem to win for losing around here today. It's a holiday and I refuse to let myself sit here and be miserable.

thanks amanda, i will check out the link you sent me. however, i stand by my belief in inner child work and whoever doesnt like can simply not read it. im not bending till i break to keep everyone happy any longer. it didnt work anyways. inner child stuff works fabulously for some of us. i dont see the usefullness in denying what works for me.

Ash, this begins to involve info in pms. i pmed you, i will not post publicly the info in the pms from you without your exact permission. thats up to you.

i do not keep pms tho for "proof". i look to the bandwidth of the site, and delete them so as not use board resources for no reason. (another thing im always told and try to avoid doing)

if you wish to continue this, let me know. if you choose to not read the pm i just sent, then it must die a natural death as i wont divulge private info.

i have to go back and read what i even began this thread about! lol...oh yeah, my own problems im owning and changing. damn, it feels good to finally "feel" this and see it all the way down.

amanda, anyone can take exception to anything all they want. if their open to hearing, i will share how what i do works for me. if not, then they can work their programs and i work mine. i just finally "feel" (i say feel because my T was always big on jody, you must feel it, not just say it and i finally "feel" it inside) it and its exciting. respect given, respect given back. that is what this thread was basically about.

it isnt about whether i share or not, it is about i finally felt i didnt have to or defend myself. i finally began to let go what others see of me. a huge thing for me. maybe i am slow at it, but as the turtle and the rabbit saw, its how one makes it to the finish line, right? not the speed its done at.

I finally see (I think) what your point was in this thread. I think it's great that you really feel that you don't have to defend yourself to anyone anymore, and that you can let go of what others think of you. I struggle with those issues too. I care much too much what others think, and get defensive easily. In the end, it's what YOU think about yourself that matters, as long as you're honest. If you know that you're progressing, even though it's slow, that's what counts.

thanks ((wondering)) for sharing. have you worked on this? are tips on what worked for you?

i will tell you, i have found once we get to this point, others might fight us. they are used to us being defensive and the "game" played a certain way. when it changes, they tend to become worse for a bit to test it. my H is who im speaking of, the look on his face when i dont respond as he expects is priceless. but eventually, it sure makes life much quieter, much less "cluttered" if you will and we become more able to work on the core issues we have and not waste time on another. i dont know about you, but i find time is precious to me. and the energy my work on me takes, i dont have a lot to spare. so it helps a ton to be able to let go of the stuff and not waste our energy on defense of others that we wont win at, anyway.

So have you changed your mind? In your first post it seemed that you were saying that posting openly on the board wasn't something you felt you could do anymore; and now it seems you have changed that to you're going to continue to post as you have been, but to no longer defend yourself?

Good luck with this, Jody.

i guess im kinda exploring this all, amanda. im not sure, but mainly i think i feel i dont *have to* anymore.

once i had the "gee, i dont want to be open" i discovered that before i had this need* to be open and defensive. i dont have it anymore. i dont have to post to defend myself. i can post if i choose to, simply because i want to. sorta like i dont know i had it until i lost it? make sense?

i noted it kinda sounded like i wasnt gonna do it anymore, and i realized i didnt mean that. (most times i post as i think and progress so it does come out sounding contradictory).

it was more a , hey! i dont have the need! i dont have to do it! i can choose and i feel ok about that!. that kinda stuff.

what i will continue to do i dont know...im far busy in real with things right now. i doubt i will continue to post as i have in the past times...but if i think its worth it and deep enough, i will do like this thread is now and explore it. but the "need" is gone...the defense need is also gone, and the need to keep everyone happy is gone. its like,,,it clicked! all of a sudden.

probably not making sense, am i?