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I say find a way to become an observer instead of a participant-

this is just a incredible thought. idea.

it needs a thread began just on it, so i dont hijack the thread.

this is what we are taught in alanon and i never quite figured it out till NOW. detachment with love, they call it.

i like this much better! i think this is a key to recovery.

Being able to separate yourself from a situation is key. Ash has the you/us/me diagram floating around somewhere and it's a good example of separation of stuff.

i have seen it and have a copy around the house also...but sometimes, its just so hard for me to figure out for myself...

observe, dont participate. key, key thing to not own anothers feelings. and argh,,,so hard for me to do on my own stuff.

by participating, one owns the others stuff.

I'm glad you mentioned Al-Anon, just because that gave me a clue what kinda situations you meant, since I hadn't recalled the context from the original thread. That is, I wouldn't have otherwise gotten that you mean as far as other people's stuff.

Yeah, sometimes it's best to observe and not not step in someone else's mess.

Heck - just learning how to "observe" and not "participate" in my own emotional storms!
That was very difficult at first, but it is a very useful skill now. To let the emotion come up, to see it, to feel it, to observe my thoughts around it, yet NOT jump in and become engulfed in it? Amazing stuff (when I can pull it off).

it is 100% a huge key for me to learn and DO.

observe.....

yes, ellen, i meant it in the context of interactions with others.

ps..also observe will have the consequence of minding our own business in a large part of things. i find, if more would just do that life would be sooooooo much quieter. im not saying dont offer help or a view if its asked for, im saying dont participate unless death, bleeding, or such is involved.

the line, observe instead of participate just has so many helpful, useful meanings, its incredible how much it would help. observing also gives us a chance to use the tools, HALT, check our responses choices, etc.

...AND it gives us a much more informed platform from which we can decide if we do participate, exactly how. The more we observe, the more information we gather. Sometimes getting involved isn't a bad thing per se, but how we get involved can be the difference between it being a bad decision and a good one.

I quite like the application of this idea that Minx talked about - that is not getting involved in your own stuff. Very interesting way of framing it. It kind of sums up mindfulness.

yeah, its just all so freaking hard to do.

i find i have had to let lots go, just not fool with it any longer, to have the mental energy to work on myself. which means who cares how the other guy is driving, etc. if it aint fire or death, i dont have the energy.

""""Sometimes getting involved isn't a bad thing per se, but how we get involved can be the difference between it being a bad decision and a good one.""" exactly. not *getting* involved, but HOW. all those lovely little nuances life is about. which drive me nuts..lol.