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tracy and smilin! so good to see you guys reply - just wanted to say that right now.

Hey, tracy. So glad you responded. I was actually thinking about the whole personality testing thing today - and I realized perhaps why I enjoy your responses so much. One reason might be because our personalities are a match as far as friendships go. You always have thoughts I find to be insightful for me - things I haven't thought of.

Here's the problem I am having as I have pondered this whole arrogance thing....(something tells me you can't stand to see arrogance or even to think about it, so I appreciate you venturing there with me) -

I have watched people who are successful for the past few days (looking for some sort of example for myself) - and it seems like the people I see as successful also have some arrogance. Tony Robbins, for example - He thinks his way is so fascinating that he shares it in every which format he can... Ash also shares "her way", (and this is no crap for Ash to have to respond to), but accepting what worked for her has been placed upon you if you are here (and I have happily accepted that). So why in the flying eff can't I have my way, support my way, and argue for my way, if I feel like it? That's what I am really thinking right now (in all due respect for you of course, tracy, as always). And I have vented this to you specifically because I think you are equipped to understand and hear me....

Hey Aqua

I would like to try and understand sure. I have problems understanding the examples you are offering I think though. I have no idea who Tony Robbins is I am willing to go away and take a look to see what I can dig up on him though, which will take me a little time. Ash as an example? I dunno I want to discuss Ash tbh it doesn't seem fair to do so. I will say I don't seem to view her as arrogant though, extremely passionate perhaps. (I hope even saying that wasn't out of line, feel free to CC me if you want Ash)



Why cant you have "your way"? IMO as long as it doesnt infringe on other people's basic human rights, and brings you happiness and health why not? I don't even see that you can't state "your way" nor demonstrate why it works for you.

Where that could come across as arrogant is to me more in presentation and any expectations you seem to exude that others have to see "your way" as the only way. What is "the way" for you, may not be "the way" for me.

I prefer painting walls with paint brushes and you might prefer painting walls with rollers. "There is more than one way to skin a cat"


K lemme see if I can give an example of what I was getting at in my previous reply. Again to me this is about presentation verses opinion. (I actually don't have any opinions on the said item I am about to use in my example though!)

1/ I drive a porche. Porches are the best cars on the planet. Everyone should have one. If you haven't got one you have no taste.

2/ I drive a porche. I believe porches are the best cars on the planet. If you haven't tried driving one then I really would urge you to try it out!

The first one to me sounds arrogant, even though it might be my belief it isn't allowing for the fact that someone else may view said porches as the worst possible car. The second states my belief and suggests you consider giving it a go and see what you think.

Debate I consider to be quite healthy. Attacks on anothers soul I dont.
I think (....) my reasons for this are (....) allows for someone to return with. I really don't think (.....) my reasons for this are (......) I might never sway someone elses opinion but thats ok, or they might like my reasoning and decide they do change theirs, that is ok too.

I truly believe that one can raise their own self-esteem to a higher plain - without looking down on other people.



I don't know that is true. I was for a time someone I consider to have been very arrogant in my beliefs......I didn't have many friends and was pretty lonely.

As for arrogance in others? Sometimes I have to dig to get to the message someone is trying to deliver, that gets masked by this my way or the highway attitude they seem to exude. I am pretty tolerant of it though. Possibly because I have enough self esteem these days to not buy into it other times I just don't hear it and wonder if people are being sarcastic especially in type. (Those four agreements sure are handy here though) I tend to believe people dont intend to be arrogant. I just get a bit bothered by it when I see it in myself!

Yea, I'm definitely more like #1 than #2. So is my bf. I think he might have something going on with that too... although in real he has tons of friends, and is a big giver.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Tracy.
While both statement express pretty much the same opinion, the first statement devalues any differing opinion. That devaluation may not be intentional, but it's there. It's the presumption of a negative character trait based simply on a differing opinion that smacks of disrepect and arrogance.

We are all entitled to an opinion. But respect for an audience means that I halt my opinion where the other person's character starts. There's no need for me to make judgments about the values of those who hold opinions other than mine. Sure, I may think "you" have no taste, or that "you're" unstable or clueless or codependent or parasitic, but there's no need to share that part. That's the part that shuts people down. That's the point where people stop listening.

An opinion about a situation or an object or a belief is one thing. An opinion about the character traits of the individual in disagreement is usually unnecessary, potentially hurtful and a good way to turn that person off.

I think this really stuck out as something I did to you.... but I think later I apologized.

I agree with you that it's not effective in any way.

Trinity, I've done a little more thinking on this....and, I'm wondering if you could explain to me exactly what it was about my responses to you that made you feel as if I wasn't allowing you to have your own opinion? I agree that I was a bit overbearing, but I just disagreed. I never tried to say you didn't have a right to your own opinion. How did I push aside your thoughts and beliefs? (and I honestly am trying to understand where you are coming from....) Why do you think I postulated that my way is "the" way, just because I shared my opinion and disagreed with you? I'm honestly having trouble understanding your pov.

So you did and apology was/is accepted.
It is nice to (finally) be able to better identify what it was that struck me so badly.

Thank you for accepting my apology.

It's how I read your "tone" in you telling me your opinion. I've already owned that I did take things personally because my lay off is a sore spot for me. What I perceive as you tone, is you looking down from the mountain your boyfriend and you live on because you are so smart and the rest of us aren't. It may all be my stuff and my (mis)interpretation, but I see it as a pattern with you. I did not point it out in the best way and that may have muddled my message.

Ok, thanks for answering, I will give this some thought....

Heya Aqua,

It seems you've learned a little about what arrogance actually is in this thread. Distilling down what others have written (which i agree with) in summary I would word it that arrogance contains an element of superiority; a sense that "my way is better". It can be conveyed in the most subtle terms.

Although I can see that it's important to be able to identify that arrogance people have claimed you possess, bc I can really see now how you couldn't see it yourself, I still think going back a bit further, onto the previous page of this thread, is where you can find direction for your self work in this arena. The thing is that the arrogance conveyed in Tracy's example about the porche is not just a matter of wording, IMHO, bc the subtleties in how one's arrogance is conveyed can really be very subtle, yet still scream a loud message. This is why I see the CBT approach to this may not be the whole answer. ie: in this case: "I can change my behaviours (my wording) and resolve the problem regardless of it's cause" won't necessarily go the whole distance. The behaviour is a symptom of the causal problem, and if that is corrected or changed then the symptoms will subside naturally, and a bit of effort on the behavioural front will probably perfect this down to a fine art.

It's about control, and I am reluctant to even introduce the word power due to it's naturally negative connotations. But I think control is more pertinent here than power. When you feel a lack of internal control, and thus when you fear the consequences of not being able to control your environment (which is a symptom of poor internal control) one is prone to displaying arrogance in order to right the imbalance in control. Arrogance is an attempt to seize control.

I'm about to cite a book which is a bit embarrassing, but have you ever read the Celestine Prophecy? Well, I got something out of it. It's about how everybody has their own way of taking other people's energy and our duty to our personal enlightenment journey is to identify how we take another's energy and change it. So, just moving away from the rest of the book, this arrogance strikes me as a way of taking energy from people. It's a bit like theft. The subtext reads a bit like this: "I'm losing control of this situation. This person doesn't agree with me. I'm afraid of what will happen if they don't come around to my way of thinking bc in my childhood, this kind of situation lead to neglect and abuse of me. So how do I recover the control? I can't find the answer internally, so I'll have do it externally then. I'll take away THEIR control of ME by asserting that I am superior. In fact doing this even takes away their control of others too, bc it invalidates them. So if their opinion is invalidated, and mine is reinforced by the superioirity in my arrogance, then I get their energy and retain control."

Does that make sense to you Aqua?

I know you addressed this to Tracy so I hope you don't mind me picking it up:



This is great stuff, and it does show your lack of control over your life (and your anger and frustration with it too!). You can have your way Aqua, you can have your opinion AND be heard AND be agreed with AND influence people (AND sometimes not) but you're finding that doing it your way doesn't bring you what you want. So it makes me ask whether your priorities are conflicting. Your "way" of communicating often results in people walking away or arguing bc something you've said (namely the topic of this thread) rubs them the wrong way. That's not what you want, yet that is the consequence of doing it your way. So which is most important? I daresay it's the latter: the communication that's more important to you than doing it your "way".

I really encourage you to journal about what you wrote in the quote above. I think there's a lot there for you to discover and sort through which is responsible for creating an underlying attitude which results in the arrogance and even aggression I've witnessed from you as a pattern here. I think if you nut this part out, you'll find the words come out differently without much effort. The problem isn't surface, it's foundation, IM-ever-so-HO.

I just wanted to say great post Sarah.

I have been doing some reading of the celestine prophecy also. I have found it incredible looking through the insights. Especially looking at four through six myself at the moment. I am finding a lot of inner peace in reading this work. So I hope you don't mind if I add this link...it was this that had me go look up the book.

Yes, it does make sense, Sarah, and I think there may be some truth to it, unfortunately. I think the process was set early in life. Instead of being punished for it, I was just ignored. And since it felt better than being victimized, I kept doing it.

I don't think I was speaking of "my way" in the context of being aggressive and arrogant. I think "my way" meant having my own opinion. It was mainly a vent that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. I'm going to work on it, but I can't say it won't be difficult. I feel like a motor running at 180 inside these days, and something about arguing just feels good. lol.

Yeah, I understood what you meant by "my way" - I just wanted to point out that your way involved two conflicting desires.

So what's going on that you're running so fast right now? If feeling this way makes you want to argue then maybe talking about it will help?

I think I'll be ok, Sarah. I just think I have to learn a few things is all. I think I have to learn how and where to direct my energies, and better management of them and my life. I move really fast and multi-task mentally, naturally. I have a unique situation. If I don't have enough things to put my energies into, I start to digress quickly into things that destroy me. That became a pattern for many reasons. I think I'm actually starting to figure this whole thing out, instead of it being a detriment, I can make it a positive for me. I have gone through life confused.....I realize now it was because I didn't have a whole lot of direction or outlets for a mental situation no one really understood, not even me.

It's so cool that you're finding understanding Aqua. It certainly does sound like a situation where if you direct your energies appropriately you could achieve a great amount.

Glad to hear you're managing yourself so well!

Thanks, Sarah. I am starting to realize that instead of being productive, I choose other dysfunctional ways of being. I'm starting to get ahold of myself a bit more, feelings aren't overwhelming me as much and I can think through situations more clearly and see what I am doing.