BPDRecovery.com: Forums

This is a quote by Stephen Covey and I love it !!

I think this says so so so very much about the proper correctness for living. Not especially easy to do, as comfort; contentment and history are all too easy to fall back into. .imagination takes work and effort and stretching.

just a diff view, if we dont learn from our history and remember it, we are doomed to repeat it. i dont know who said that! lol.

my history has taught me so much.

cant we do both? your right, it isnt easy to change.

I think to do this, we have to be present in the moment. Not live in the past but stay in the present, and look toward the future. I wonder if people who live in the past are able to move forward. For instance, artists and musicians, in order to be creative, need to stay focused. I would think living in the past would hinder their growth. This is interesting because my T does not want me spending too much time going over the past - he wants me to work on today to make things better.

oh, i see the diff in what i mean and how some on here dont understand it.

i dont mean living in the past, i mean learning from it. acceptance as in this happened, how can i learn something good from it happening?

i dont mean ignoring today to live back there.

but i strongly believe if we dont come to terms with our past, feel it and accept it and grieve, then learn from it, we can not fix the present or future or ourselves. that is what i was taught from day one of counseling, and i have seen it work for me.

my 2 cents...

Yes, I agree Jody. I think these are two different circumstances though. Accepting your past is not living in it. It's accepting that stuff happened, but then you need to move on. I know for some that is hard to do - I'm not minimizing it. But as far as the quote goes, to me, it says stay present, stay focused and go forward. Of course, I don't always do that myself - it's not easy to do. But it's a good goal.

To me this quote is more of an 'we can do anything with our futures, our past doesn't dictate our present or our future' kinda thought. By learning to develop our imagination, our creativity, we can 'think outside the box' and know that our destiny is not set into stone, not determined by what we have been through. We grow. We decide what we want from this life, we have to go out and get it. Our past does not determine our future so long as our imagination is alive and well-- anything is possible. We have to dream it!

Great quote, Smilin. Thanks for sharing.

I have dark fantasies. For me to live my dreams would be difficult.

"Live out of your imagination, not your history"

As I mentioned, this, to me, says challenge yourself - dream ! - explore ! push yourself ! - find out what you are capable of doing !

It asks that we don't be content with the known and stay there. It says to embrace life and discover- any and everything.

Basically it says to live, not exist.

The reason, as I see it, that it mentions "not your history" is because for people who are not natural dreamers (always with the next scheme/plot/story at hand), there is a tendancy to have our past define us. This is asking for just the opposite- continue to re-invent yourself. Be tomorrow whatever you have not yet been.

So many of us (and I can see where I too do this at times) tend to hold onto to our past- what happened and how it impacted us. And that does nothing but hold us back. Yesterday is gone, learn from it and move on, yes it is 'part of you' but it doesn't have to 'be you'. As I've heard from a few different motivational speakers - "forgetaboutit" "dump the garbage". Basically it is only ourselves that hold onto this. We are the only ones focused on it.

I had a situation just last week where all of this came into play. And yep for a bit I was holding onto the past, and letting it dictate my future. I walked right into it and finally realized that because I wasn't dumping my garbage, I was about to deny myself an experience I had been looking forward to. So, I turned myself around and chose to dump the garbage and move forward.

In doing so, I had to not only dump old garbage but the garbage I had just created for myself. And, this involved overcoming my own fears as well as the impressions others carry of me. I had to focus on what I wanted; not me and all my faults (perceived or otherwise) nor on my history with the group I would be spending 3 days with. Nor on the history I had just created for myself (and, how many times do we create our own reality?)

The 3 days went well. There were some bumps but rather than let any one of those bumps define me / my time there; I stayed with what each moment was and what I overall wanted for myself.

-----------------

Basically, Harmonium has defined this in the absolute sense that I hear the words when I read them. The impact of the words I am unable to express, but I read Harmonium's response and say, yes, exactly !

BG - I've lost what your comment about artists etc was getting at. Can you explain that more, please. Thanks

Terrabus- I know of others who often have dark thoughts/ fantasies. I don't know about you, but for them there is a good yet also difficult side to it. I hope you are able to find some peace around the more difficult side.

As far as this quote and how you could apply it. It may need a bit of twisting as my focus of late has all been about the good I can do for myself and I don't know that your dark fantasies are for your own good. I would therefore say that you are somewhat like myself- that imagination in a positive, empowering sense is difficult and so we are asked to stretch. That would be our challenge- to work past our known and comfort zones and find what will empower us and teach us more about ourselves.

Jody- everyone's past is a part of them. That is how our personalities are developed. There are only very extreme (and probably unhealthy) cases wherein this isn't true.

Whether one has had a good history (perhaps an awesome or unusual experience early on in life) or a bad history (abuse / illness / loss- whatever); this quote still hold value. It asks that we move forward; that we look to what is next. That we don't hold on to what has been or was. That we don't stop with what has been.

There are numerous books out on this thought that have titles like 100 things to do before I die (not an exact title). I've browsed a few of these books, and while interesting to read what others find fascinating or a challenge, it is somewhat sad that some need a book to be written and cannot dream up their own list while others will read such a title (not even the book) and say "Thats for them not for me" or " I could never do that".

Learning from one's past shouldn't be a lifelong project wherein that study is the focus of one's life; it should be an integrated step in moving forward and moving on to the next chapter. Hence, along the way one is always letting go of their past.

An aside to this is my own personal case, which I dont believe to be unique, at all: There is part of my past that I don't nor won't recollect yet it has impacted me greatly. All I can do is accept that such is the case. There is no way I am going to spend my time trying to learn from or of this. For the effort put forth, what is the return I get? And, what am I missing whilst doing so?

perhaps, succintly, it says to not limit yourself to what is or has been

yeah, me too, on the past that is blank.

what a great thread and interesting things to think about and choose from! thanks, smiling i really like the "dont limit yourself"!!

As I've said here before, my T does not encourage me to go into my past too much. He knows about my past from my earliest sessions with him, but to go over and over it does not do me any good. He likes me to focus on today and what I can do now.

As far as the artists go, my thoughts are that in order to be creative, one needs to move forward - constantly coming up with new ideas - whether it's music, art, theatre, etc. If we allow ourselves to get bogged down in the past, we cannot embrace the present or the future. We will always be going backwards. I would think it could hinder creativity.

I also find this interesting in how it relates to people I have known. For instance, I knew a girl in junior high who was, let's say, rather "fast." She dated boys far older than her, was considered loose. I was friends with her for a while and my mother did not like me being with her. Fast forward 40 years - she is now a Ph.D. neuropsychologist with a degree from Columbia University. So if I only think of her as I knew her back then, I am not allowing myself to move forward and see her as an accomplished person. I am thinking in the past. We need to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have another friend who dropped out of high school, smoked a lot of pot and became a hippie back in the 60's. She is now the owner of the largest, most successful employment agency in Hawaii. She also moved forward, and I need to think of her like that, not as the drop-out hippy from 40 years ago.

Lots of good stuff to think about.

I don't think this has much to do with therapy at all, but rather life in general. What our focus is- the things that have happened to us or the things that we may be able to make happen for us.

I have a sister who years ago got stuck on one thing that occured in her life. It brought her life to a standstill which is not all that unusual if/when we arent equipped to handle such; yet, 15 years later she was still there allowing that to dictate who she was; what she was doing. She didnt seek out resources and means to move beyond it. Unlike some people, she wouldnt bring it up in discussions (probably out of shame) yet it definitely had her standing still and it was obvious to observers what it was. So, I don't know that not talking of it is any better than constantly bringing up what stumbling blocks (or heroics) one has incurred. If we carry our past with us constantly I don't really see how we can live out of our imagination.

My mom was someone who did not let her past inhibit her. She could have gone on about how drastically her life had changed; how unfair, overall, her life was; how this; that; the other things were stumbling blocks and cause for her to 'sit life out'. Yet, she never did this. She carried on never talking of some very impactful situations in her life.

On the other hand, she did not pursue more of her creative side; which would have been really awesome to observe her develop.

So, back to my first statement here.. our focus is best served on what we may be able to do; which requires risk (ie willingness to fail); trust and testing ourselves.

I can see how difficult this can be. For instance, if you have had some kind of traumatic event in your life, sometimes it can prevent you from moving forward. If you never talk about it, it stays stuck with you. So in order to move forward, you do need some sort of therapy to deal with it and move on.

My mother did not have the best childhood. But I think she compartmentalized it. She married a wonderful man (my father). She never went to therapy or anything. But I think the hurt stayed with her for her whole life. Perhaps if she had dealt with it, she could have done more with her life. I don't know for sure. Also, some life circumstances prevented her from doing more too. So who knows. I know she did not live in the past - she had a wonderful life with my father and me and my sister - but I think if she could have unburdened herself things could have been even better.

So even if people do not live in the past, dealing with childhood events can make things even better. I know many people have had traumatic childhoods. But they should not use that as an excuse to prevent them from getting on with their lives. They need therapy to deal with these events. I know there are people who can be mean-spirited and nasty. They use their childhood events as their excuse to behave this way. I don't think that is right either. Maybe I'm painting this too black-and-white - I don't mean to. I know everyone has their own unique circumstances. And for some people, it's hard to access the help they need.

I agree with you Smilin. People do need to face their issues and try to move on, in spite of them. I too had a problem that I was embarrassed about (the dissociation). I refused to talk about it because of shame. Back in the 60's, if you were "different" kids made fun of you. I didn't want anyone looking at me differently. But as an adult, I tried not to let it define me. When I was younger, I didn't have the tools and the resources to deal with it. But I do now.

BG - Interesting thoughts there.

So you feel that your mom could have benefited from therapy, like you yourself have? You feel this is helping you live out your life in ways that require you to challenge yourself? And that you continue to seek new things- explore and discover? Would you say your mom did?

Are there ways, outside of anything therapy related, that you've done this? (Live out of your imagination?)

You also said that you don't let your history define you. Does this mean that you've left things that have occured in the past and you've moved past situations?

Tho I addressed this to BG (since her post inspired these questions) I would hope any and everyone would respond ! Could be interesting !!

My first thoughts on this Smilin was that I don't like living out of my imagination. Because sometimes it means that I become dissatisfied with my life as it is. This can lead me to a depression if I can't see the steps to bring it about.

Today I feel a bit better emotionally and I have to say if I had never followed my dreams and allowed opinions and others definitaion of me from my past to create my future I wouldn't be where I am today. So it is about balance eh?

I was raised that women are subordinate to men, that men are head of the household and that I should do everything in my power to keep them happy.
Stuckness said I endured years of domestic abuse, because I lived by this people pleasing standard. Once I was a single parent I had no headship to follow, yet still kept this idea I was lesser than others. But I have moved forward and yes as a product of my own imagination become more free thinking and able to support myself and my chldren with an absence of male headship. More recently I have been able to stop seeking approval from others to make my own decisions.

Another thing I grew up with is that education and careers were not for me. That I was to live my life again, being content with my lot in life. That pursuing a career in music was a pipe dream and irrelevant to a successful life. I took my dream and did a degree in Music. I am so much for education these days that I work with kids promoting it. Huge shift for me, which means I can have a successful career life.

There are many things like that I have done that have made me feel more fulfilled as a person. So yes I have to say keeping it in balance living out of your imagination does work to keep forward movement. Also yes sometimes it is about taking a risk and following your own dreams even when other around believe they are pipe ones that wont lead to anything.

Yes, smilin - I believe my mother could have benefitted from therapy. She had three things going against her - one) I believe she was abused somewhat as a child by her mother and brother. two) her mother forced her to drop out of high school when her father died so she could help support the family, thus never going onto higher education and achieving her potential. three) she was a typical housewife in the fifties, taking care of me and my sister, cleaning, shopping, ironing, etc. It wasn't until the early 60's that she went back to work. She loved going into Manhattan to work - it made her very happy. She loved being in the city with the people, the shops, the buildings! She was never very creative, but she was a dear and caring person, and gave a lot of herself to her family and friends.

As for me, my volunteer work, which is outside of therapy, has led me to new and exciting places that I never thought I'd see. It has led me to meet wonderful and interesting people. It forces me to push my limits and do things I never thought I could do.

I dont' believe I live in the past. I've had setbacks in my life, some traumatic. But I try to move forward and not let those incidents dictate who I am today. Thoughts about them may crop up from time-to-time, but I try not to dwell on them. In fact, I am grateful for the way my life is right now. I know I get depressed and down at times, but it has nothing to do with the conditions of my life - it has more to do with how I feel about myself. Actually, right now I have been getting in contact with cousins who I haven't seen in years, and we are posting old family photographs on our Facebook family page. Yes, it's reminiscing, but in a good way, in a happy way.

I am not an artist - I don't play an instrument, sing, dance, act or paint. But I do appreciate music and art. I love history and traveling. I read a lot. So that's where my imagination comes into play. My H and I have decorated our house in bright wonderful colors and brought beautiful whimsical items into it. So decorating my house has been very creative for me. And the volunteer work I do always pushes me to do things in a creative way - speaking to people, writing.

As far as therapy goes, I'd say it's been an anchor for me. A safe place to explore my feelings and get in touch with myself. Prior to being diagnosed with BPD, I'd say most of my therapy consisted of me whining, and never getting anywhere. The T's I saw never diagnosed me or gave me tools to use. But since I've been seeing my new T and he diagnosed me with BPD, he has given me tools, he has validated me and keeps me grounded. That helps me to not go off into rages and not drive myself crazy. That in turn makes me more capable of being more successful in the volunteer work that I do.

I know I might back-slide sometimes. When an anniversary of a traumatic event comes up, I sometimes go into a slight depression. But I always bounce back from it. If I do talk about the past, it might be to ask questions about why this might have happened or what I can do to make things better now. When I was younger, I did live in the past and also in the future. In my early marriage, we had very little money so I was always thinking about the future - hoping things would get better. But my T really likes me to focus on today, which I am learning to do.

I view the statement to be much more than whether one is living (or thinking) about the past. I view it somewhere along the lines that Tracy is commenting about; how much past garbage (as its been referred to by others) are we carrying with us. It doesn't, to me, mean going over past events but rather using those past events to define us and explain who we are today.

Yes, my family dynamics impacted me yet today I am my own person. Yes, I can still get caught up by what those dynamics were, but if I've not adopted those behaviors and thoughts as my own, then I need to let go of what that impact was and look at where and who I am today. And moreso where I want to go.

I was talking with a co-worker the other day and family life came up a bit. She talked of how they were constantly moving and how she felt that made her more adaptable. I mentioned how I am just the opposite- have moved minimally throughout my life and likewise am very much a creature of habit- and spoke of my mom being sick. Immediately I thought to myself that really wasn't necessary. Mom being sick is so far in my past. The impact of that is so minimal today that I was using my history to define me, when infact today I can't readily state what the outcome of that is. I was chosing to hold onto it; to make it a part of me today; when in reality it is only if I want it to be.

The same is true with making close friends. I have gone thru a few periods in my life wherein I have had very good and dear friends just drop out. And yep the abandonment; rejected; defective feelings would come up and hit me very hard. Hard enough to send me into an extreme and lengthy depression at one point. Even years later I had similiar occur. For awhile I was not open to new friends at all. I was carrying around this old baggage (as well as stacking events upon each other). My new friends were taken aback by my attitude and would comment that they are not 'them'.

I was not living in the past. I was not going over old friendships yet yep I was carrying garbage. I would comment (eventually, to explain myself) that these things had occurred. I took these past events and made them a part of me. I was living out my history, not my imagination. I was not looking for the newness; the openness; the energy; the hope; the excitement of what these new relationships were or could be. X happened to me in the past; had had an impact and by gosh and by golly, they were going to continue to impact me.

If, instead, however, I was living out my imagination, I would have been open to who these new people were; to what was unique about our friendship; to what I was learning and enjoying from them. I wasn't challenging myself to see where I could go with these new friendships. Instead I was limiting myself by my past and my past reactions.

It's sorta like my dad having told me that just because I didnt like a food when I was 10 didnt mean I still wouldnt like it today. I needed to try it. Turned out he was right. There are probably 4 foods I can name almost immediately that I eat today that I wouldnt eat as a kid. I was associating my past to who I was today; to what I could do today. I was living out my history by constantly using it to explain myself.

We limit ourselves in many many ways. Part of this is tied to the old saying we become what we think. If we hold onto what was and how it impacted us, we will never be more than that as we refuse to let it go- hard; scary; uncertain and as indelible as it had impacted us.

One day my mom was here with us. The next day, she was gone and we were shipped off to various relatives. Does this mean that every time someone leaves unexpectedly I will lose all my security?

My fears can be, on many levels, overcome if I am willing to try something different; take a new approach; see the obstacle as an opportunity for growth. I need to let go of my history and have it be just that; and look toward tomorrow and what I would like to do and be.

2 years ago I hurt my ankle the first day out on the tennis courts after about a 30 year absence from tennis. I was disabled by the injury for a month, so of course, gave up tennis. Today, I play tennis weekly and have been since the beginning of summer. If I was living out my past I would not be on the courts today as heck I just might get hurt.

Guess which one is the more enjoyable option.

Wow!!!! Great post Smilin! I think I get it now. Thank you!!!!

I agree completely that living in the past is unhealthy. I can't help but think that survival used to be more challenging in general that no one lived without hardship and trauma in their lives. Perhaps it is the concept of "a good life" that causes us to question our pasts and spend too much time invested in things that are already over and done. It really does not matter how much trauma a person has experienced in the past, what matters is what sort of person they have allowed themselves to become. I see so many people doing the "I am this way because of my past" as a means of justification for poor choices and to me that is a cop out.

The part of the quote that I am not as sure about has to do with living out of our imagination. Perhaps if the quote were in context, I would better understand the meaning. What I get from the quote is that we do not need to limit ourselves due to past failures when the future is a clean slate. Rather than finding reasons for not making good choices, we just need to make the best choices we can and then live with the consequences or the benefits of our choices. So many people have overcome the most traumatic experiences imaginable that we obviously don't have to allow those past experiences to inhibit our futures. Having dreams and ambitions is what gives us hope in life for a better tomorrow.

Denim -

I'm not sure what you mean about the concept of 'the good life' causing us to examine our past and invest in things over and done. I'm not seeing a correlation. Would you mind explaining that?

You focus on people who justify poor choices with comments about their past. I think this statement refers to so many more people; to so much more in our lives than just that. This has little to do with justification but rather with moving forward and finding where we can go. It doesn't matter what the person is doing. (What is Bush going to do - he reached an ultimate position. What next for him come Jan?.. sit fishing every day... been there done that.. so . how can he 'live' come Jan.. and I mean live in the very sense of the word- engage; enliven; experience)

Awhile back I read a true account of a guy who climbed Mt Everest. Now that was indeed a challenge and living out his imagination. Yet, as the book went on it was evident that climbing was his life and he'd climbed a lot of mountains; Everest just being the ultimate challenge. So yeah we supposedly commend him for this effort. Well, thing is, as the story developed, you could see where his family life was suffering. So, for him, (imo) the challenge isnt the next mountain, but rather doing the thing he is avoiding or neglecting - working to make his family life better. Can he imagine a different family life? Can he imagine a life without climbing mountains? Can he imagine a life beyond his status quo? (and what ELSE could he be doing rather than climbing mountains OR spending time with his family ?..)

This reminds me of a quote from my old T.. she would say ALTERNATE ENERGY.. what else could I be doing with this time and effort...

I think the other point I see in all this is this isnt about bad/good or success/failure.

This guy could, if he chose to, live on the laurels of his Everest attempt. In this sense he would be living out his history- if he often referred to and spent his time going over this event or if he used it to define himself (even indirectly). Climbing Everest isnt a bad thing; not summitting isnt a failure in the true sense cause he is still only 1 of XXXXX who even attempted..so that in itself is a success...

This isnt about holding onto the bad or the unaccomplished. If we only look at this quote this way, we are still missing out on all that it says...

It basically says 'what next' ... 'what now'.. where are you going tomorrow?
and when you go to answer that... dream.. explore... think outside the box.

Try experiencing what comes after "If only I were ______ "

I've been following this thread with much interest, Smilin. I think you have given us something really good to think about.

But I'm wondering if maybe there isn't another side, given your current example.

In order to climb a mountain at difficult and high as Mount Everest (29,029 ft), one Must have climbed other mountains. Period. A person is not really equipped otherwise, does not have the experience and knowledge to survive without the history of previous ice climbs. It is very difficult, even in today's world where the Sherpa's do much of the work. I suppose it Is possible in today's world to summit Everest solely with the help of the Sherpa's, being a novice climber, but that is not wise. Typically it is the culmination of many years of learning the trade, of passion for the climb. It is risking one's life. It IS living out the imagination, IMHO, even if someone climbs regularly, to climb Everest.

I get that your point was that the climber in your story didn't challenge himself to do the unknown to him; but many climbers neglect their family's because learning to ice climb and training for such takes them all over the world. They ARE living out their dreams. The Dream is not to have a stable family, but to explore the world, to climb the world. It usually does take sacrifice on many fronts from them and their loved ones. It is expensive, after all, to receive all the permits to climb K-2 or some of the other really high ice climbs located in dangerous or inaccessible areas. The challenge of getting there is part of it. Their families signed up for that, usually. In that case, at least in my personal experience with these adventure-seekers,he would be giving up his dream to pursue the 'normal' family life. I can see how that's living out of the box for a person like that, but I can't see how it will bring that person true happiness, which is the goal, right?

I knew a guy, a friend of my father's (dead now), who climbed the highest mountain on all 7 continents, the 7 summits. He also climed the highest peak in all 50 states--that tour he did with his dog, lol. He ran across countries for fun, coast to coast. He spent his career in NASA, working as an engineer on the Mercury missions. My point is...yes, he built on his past, his experience. But I have never in my life met anyone else whom I considered to live more in their imagination. Dream it, do it; that was Jack. By the way, on his first attempt to summit Everest, his wife died coming down the mountain (neither summited) He was 49 before he ever learned the basics of mountaineering. He went back 5 years and $250,000 later and made the summit. Yes, he suffered losses, and yes, I bet his kids wanted more quality time with their dad. But I can't see how he was NOT living out of his imagination. To me, this man's life epitomizes this quote.

I suppose what I'm saying is it is possible to go too far in the other direction also. To 'forget' about one's history is not better than living in it, IMO. Yes, we have to grow, stretch and challenge ourselves to live out of our imaginations. Yes, the man in your story might be well-served to think about his family. But we also have to build on our experience. We serve ourselves no better to forget about our base than we do stuck inside it.

These are my original words so I will start from here:



My point is that life is so "easy" today in comparison to the challenges people faced throughout history that what we consider "traumatic" events seem like a big deal in contrast. It used to be considered "normal" and probably even "proper" for parents to beat their children so most children in the past grew up being "abused" by today's standard. Because that was the way things were back then, people did not talk to therapists about their childhood and blame their upbringing for the way they chose to live their lives as adults. Everyone back then would have had PTSD by today's standards! People living through wars did not get treatment for PTSD and yet in today's society people who merely witnessed a tragedy such as the 9/11 terrorist attacks seek "trauma" therapy. It seems life is so "easy" now that the main threats to our survival are our own thoughts and feelings. We have gone from a society that struggles to survive to one where survival is nothing but a mental game that can be won with antidepressant medication.

I suppose I still have a hard time with the concept that I need to "hire" a therapist in order to fix something that is in my own head! The biggest threat to my personal survival is thinking that I don't want to live and yet the fact is that there is no particular "reason" why I want to die, just that I am tired of living. I managed to find a doctor in my area and I had an appointment with her this morning (someone had cancelled so I was able to schedule today's appointment yesterday) in order to get a prescription for my meds. Once I can get my brain chemistry stabilized I will probably go on living just as I have managed to live this long already because the self-destructive urges will be masked by a drug. But what puzzles me is that I have managed to live without drugs during the times I have been off medication so the whole "brain chemistry" theory doesn't seem to hold true unless it is stress that causes my brain chemistry to lead me into suicidal thinking patterns. Then again, if my life were in physical danger, that stress would probably kick me right out of my suicidal thinking into survival mode and I would be putting my energy into fighting for my life instead of wanting to end it. How strange is that?!

Hi Harmonium -

First, thanks for sharing your own personal experiences about a 7 Summitteer. That's an awesome achievement and had to be thrilling to be around and be a part of.

You took my story and made a good point.

We do need to learn from our history and we can't learn from it, if we forget about it. So, I think what you and I are working toward is balance. Learn from it; use it; don't let it define you; and don't define yourself by it.

My point, lost as it may have gotten in that post, was that living in one's past or out of ones past does not have to be about living with or from or holding onto BAD experiences - it could be living with GOOD experiences also- it can be accomplishments also.

I was making this point because I noticed that most who have responded to this post are focused on letting go of our "bad" history.

Hi Denim-

Thanks for taking the time to explain your passage. I really would not have made the correlation you were making without your further explaination. I wasn't grasping what you called 'the good life'.



Yes, things are different today. Evolution and progress account for a lot of this. A faster, better, newer way of doing things. More respect (in some cases) for anything living. (In our area they just passed a new animal rights bill stating how much space is required for farm animals and how often they are fed etc and so forth.. something unheard of years ago. Animals were just a means to an end, not anything we put so much effort into tending to.)

Just because something 'was' doesn't mean it was ok, tho. Yes, todays society has less tolerance for abuse- or anything nearing that. But, that doesnt make the abuse that took place and was unspoken and swept under the carpet ok.

Likewise, I dont think it is necessary to go so far as to say that spanking is not ok. There is a far difference between spanking and beatings; punishment and torture.

If people never imagined a better life, but continued to live out their history- beatings; torture; cruelty; outhouses; community bathing houses etc would all still exist.




I think this is a great example of NOT living out of one's imagination. If one
believes that they are now 'fixed' due to meds and hence that is the extent of their treatment of their problems. Then, one is not using their imagination of what having a freer mind; less emotions and more active life is.






Both of your above passages are classic flight/fight responses, imo. In one case you 'fly' to no life and in the other case you 'fight'. It takes a lot of work to overcome either response. And it may require using some imagination as to what life would be like without either as your typical response. How can you not fly out of your life; and how can you survive when threatened without fighting? (which of course would depend upon the scenario, eh?)

ps - Hope the Doc appt went well; you got your meds; and are starting to stablize again.

Smilin

I want to thank you for this quote.

I have carried it with me a lot this week. I always look at the holiday period with dread and a sense of foreboding. It sucks and ultimately every year I have an awful xmas filled with some kind of guilt and fear. I don't have a lot of good xmas memories to fall back on.

So I have taken this quote this week. I am planning to spend this holiday season this year living out of my imagination. Thanks!!!