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Ash, i wish somehow you would understand that when i, or others, talk about the past, we are acknowledging it (hugely important) and accepting it gave us who we are. we are colored by it, if you will. born clear, but colored in with events.

but it is NEVER a excuse or something. it shows us we have this, we did this, but we can change it into its alter side,,,the positive side. everyone must do this to become a functioning, integrated, mature adult. bpd or not.

i just think you dont understand what we mean by it, and i wish you could. we or i never use it as a excuse. shit happens. to all of us. but we CAN change our traits to their better, more positive side by accepting it happened.

just my 2 cents. somehow i feel invalidated by your words and i dont know why exactly. by accepting and facing the past, it is in no way a excuse for anything. it is a explanation. many adopted people have tremendous issues over it. have you ever seen "the locator"? i always cry, because its so true. he speaks of fitting in the pieces. i see in my H, the tremendous issues he has being adopted. i see in his biological mother why.

anyways, i have this rambling issue today. just my 2 cents for you to consider. thats all i want...if you consider this viewpoint. please. if not, i know. i cant do a thing about it.

my past is the explantion of why some things add to ptsd now. they are no excuse. i dont use them as such. i just know where it comes from and i can change the feelings with it. if not, i WOULD be doomed to repeat it. "do what ya always done, you will get what ya always got". very true. and we tend to do what we did then...if we dont see why and change it.

just my view.

Jody, I wasn't speaking to or about you and it would be quite helpful if you would work on not taking things personally.

Since you feel invalidated by my words, perhaps this is a good opportunity for you to work on exploring what it is you may have twisted or used from your past to dump onto my words as a way of evoking those feelings of invalidation within yourself.

I was speaking to Harindy about Harindy's words in this specific thread. The question posed was "Isn't there also a healthy piece of recognizing how the past has effected who you are today" and that is the question I was responding to. I wasn't responding to anything you wrote, in this thread or other threads. I wasn't saying "Jody does this" or "Jody does that." I was speaking in general as a general response to a general question posed by someone else entirely.

I took Harindy's words at face value and in those words, the implication is that "there is an unhealthy piece in which some people may not recognize how the past has effected who they are today." If you took that to mean I was talking about you, there's nothing I can do about that because it is your perception, your interpretation, nothing over which I have any control.

You refer to "what we mean by it" and "who we are" and how "we are colored by it." I have no idea who all you're trying to defend to me or what group is involved in this "we" of yours. I wasn't speaking to you or to them or to the "we" group at all. I was speaking directly to Harindy about the general question posed.

As your post is directed at me about your feelings of invalidation with regard to my words (to someone else) I will be splitting out these two posts to allow Harindy's thread to continue without being sidetracked by this other issue.

Having had a bit of a breather, I realize that I was seriously put off by your approach and I reacted more than I responded.

When I hear things like "I wish you could understand" it comes across to me as an attack. When someone goes on the offensive toward me, I invariably revert to defensive tactics rather than simply stepping out of the way. I could do a better job at stepping away, saving the gut-reaction post as a draft and coming back to it later.

I'm not sure how to say it without sounding even more invalidating but you were nowhere near my thoughts as I was typing my post to Harindy. My post really & truly had absolutely-zero to do with you and I stand by my assertion that there's nothing I can do about how you choose to perceive my words to someone else.

That said, I don't believe I ever said "I'm the only one who does this great stuff and everyone else does this unhealthy stuff." I don't believe I ever discounted other people or their experiences. In fact, I was specifically talking about a handful of people who used to be at other boards many years ago - specifically at Patty & Tim's old place or at Soul's board back before BPDR even began. Those people - the ones using their BPD diagnosis as an excuse, a "get out of jail free" card - acted in all manner of horrific ways and never felt any sense of remorse or responsibility for their actions. Some of them outright said "It's not my fault, it's my BPD, I can't control it, you can't hold me responsible for my bad actions."

THOSE are the people I was talking about.

I recognize that Harindy was referring to another thread. I haven't read that other thread.

I wasn't speaking to the entirety of that thread; I was speaking solely within the context of the split-off thread.

I wasn't speaking to everyone who participated in the other thread; I was speaking solely to Harindy, which was why I addressed my post as such: "Harindy, " much like you addressed your post directly to me and not everyone else in the thread by starting with "Ash, ".

If you're trying to suggest that I don't "understand what we mean," I think you're making a mighty large assumption. While it's true that I can never know with 100% certainty that I understand something to the point where I can see it clearly from someone else's perspective (through their eyes) I have a better understanding than I think you give me credit for.

I'm pretty confident that "what ya'll mean by it" is that you're accepting the past and acknowledging that it exists but you're choosing to act as adults in the NOW rather than as wounded children from the past, as if nothing had ever changed.

Which ... if you could cut me a milimeter of slack and take off the filter you use to view everything I say ... you might be able to see that we'd be in complete agreement -- that such an approach is healthy and "the way to go."

The fact is, you continue to paint me black in many, if not most, scenarios. If one thing doesn't sit right with you for any reason, everything I've said is automatically wrong, off-track or invalidating in your book. You don't seem to give me the benefit of the doubt.

You're right - many people DO have issues about being adopted. I'm one of them and I said as much. I said that I have abandonment issues as a result of being adopted. I was speaking ONLY about myself and my own adoption issues and perspective. It seems as though you've somehow managed to contort my words about my experience and my approach into saying that your H's adoption issues are irrelevant or something.

I would really like it if we could move past this - drop the filters, paint brushes, twist-o-matics and everything else that skews attempts at communication.

I AM NOT TRYING TO HURT YOU, JODY.

cool to have this split off. thanks. cant have a hijacking! sorry harindy. my bad.

and i gave you a compliment in another thread, but i see you didnt reply to that. i didnt expect one.

you heard my words the same way...thru your filter thinking "i wish you could understand" is a attack. hardly. it wasnt. i cant even make it sound like one without changing up the words. regardless.....it was a wish. you know..."if wishes were horses, beggars would ride"? that kind. a wish...that you would hear one thing i said someday. but ...a wish that will not happen in my lifetime.

who drops their filter first,..i will take bets on it. anything i say you come unglued also...and it wasnt even meant to be bad at you. it was just a wish, nothing more.

you might check..i did pay you a nice compliment in the other thread. and said thank you to you for it.

maybe you havent noticed the nice post? or the thank you i gave you? or how much help i got from something you said?

probably not, right.

i aint in the mood to argue, i have heard enough shit today at home for most peoples years worth already. lets all turn the page, shall we. ?

i should never have posted that to you at all. my apologies and i have no idea what i was thinking by trying it.

i reread what i said and no where in it does it say i took your words personally about me or did i attack you.

mostly i explained my own view and how i felt.

however, i should not have spoken at all. i should have posted only as my own view and not directed it to you.

someday i will learn. maybe. i do keep trying to learn. its bad being a optimist. it really is.

can we drop this now please? i really dont want to try the same stuff over again. it does no good. there is no point. it was my bad for speaking to you. i am truly sorry i did.

my invalidation feelings or ANY feelings are mine only and i thought i made that clear. i guess i didnt, so i will repeat it here.

i must admit i will not address your other questions or statements, as it is pointless and you wont believe me anyways.

sorry. jody

Jody,

I will not address the "compliment" you posted in BG's thread because I would like to keep this discussion confined to only the one thing that came up in Harindy's thread.

Jody wrote: i reread what i said and no where in it does it say i took your words personally about me or did i attack you.

I agree with you that you did not use the words "I am taking your words personally, Ash." I also agreed that you did not attack me.

Ash wrote: When I hear things like "I wish you could understand" it comes across to me as an attack. When someone goes on the offensive toward me, I invariably revert to defensive tactics rather than simply stepping out of the way.

In fact, I said quite clearly that I saw it as an attack and explained why I saw it that way at first. I went on to tell you that I had shifted my perspective and no longer saw it as an attack.

Was there something I didn't address? Did I not act in a way you deem appropriate in my acceptance of responsibility / owning my own stuff? What could I have said that would have more accurately conveyed the very same point you made in both posts to me so that you would have been better able to accept my words?

Jody wrote: you heard my words the same way...thru your filter thinking "i wish you could understand" is a attack. hardly. it wasnt. i cant even make it sound like one without changing up the words.

You're right and I've already said that, Jody.

Ash wrote: I realize that I was seriously put off by your approach and I reacted more than I responded. When I hear things like "I wish you could understand" it comes across to me as an attack. When someone goes on the offensive toward me, I invariably revert to defensive tactics rather than simply stepping out of the way.

What is the point / what is your goal in bringing this up after I had already addressed it? Was my acceptance of responsibility insufficient to you in some way? Is there something specific that you need or would like to hear to fully accept that I have taken responsibility for my inappropriate use of filtration? Is there some reason for you to tell me again what I've already admitted to was wrong?

I guess I should peel it back even further and ask: did you see that I had already addressed it? Did you or have you since gone back to read the second post I made a little while later before posting to me twice about my first post?

==============================================================================

Back to the original issue, however ...

Ash wrote: I didn't use it as an excuse or a sheild. It was just something that was. I think it certainly played a role in my abandonment issues to be certain but once those things were there, it was up to me to deal with them - or ignore them or use them as an excuse sheild - "It's not my fault, I have BPD cuz of my abandonment issues cuz I was adopted." (I don't think I ever really did that but I know many people who have. It's really convenient to point the finger outward instead of inward.)

I was relating my personal experience with unnamed people (who, in all honesty, I haven't seen or heard from in well over 5 years).

Jody wrote: Ash, i wish somehow you would understand that when i, or others, talk about the past, we are acknowledging it (hugely important) and accepting it gave us who we are. we are colored by it, if you will. born clear, but colored in with events. but it is NEVER a excuse or something.

I wasn't talking about anyone specifically and I was sharing first-hand comments (paraphrased) that I heard at the time.

When you insert yourself into the example, you are implying that you have personalized it because you have put your person (yourself) into the generic example. You didn't STATE that you were taking my words personally but YOUR ACTIONS CLEARLY IMPLIED that you were taking them personally.

To put it another way, your words don't match your actions. The walk and the talk are out of synch. If you're going to talk the talk (not taking things I say personally), you need to do a better job of walking the walk (not inserting yourself into generic comments based on my personal experiences being shared with someone else entirely.)

yes, ma'am. """""If you're going to talk the talk (not taking things I say personally), you need to do a better job of walking the walk (not inserting yourself into generic comments based on my personal experiences being shared with someone else entirely.)""""

gotcha/

i need to do a better job on lots of things, Ash. umm everything, i should say.

thanks for pointing this out to me. i almost forgot it, once again.

Jody,

Many people need to do a better job at lots of things in their lives, this is one reason people participate in the BPDR community.

Watching the exchange between you and Ash in this thread, as an observer, I found Ash's first response post to you very reactive and emotionally charged. She then posted again recognizing she was reacting rather than responding. She took your words as an attack and explained how and why she perceived things that way. She then went on to give concrete examples and explanations of how you may have misunderstood her intent.

In the past, you've asked people to provide you with black and white examples of how and why and what and where. In this instance, Ash has provided you with concrete examples and yet you're pushing back against them with what I perceive as, "fuck, I can't do a damn thing right so i'm going to just give up" attitude. To me, you're reacting rather than responding. People tend to react instantaneously, and later, when we sit back and reflect a bit, we discover a response that differs from our reaction.

I am not saying you're wrong. I am asking if there is another angle to see the picture. Part of untwisting our thinking is to look at those thoughts with a different angle in order to see what we might not see at first glance.

Not sure if any of that makes sense.
Nik

im sure i am reacting. i know i do against wording such as "do this, you should do that" and add in a negative thing.

i have immense trouble getting past that with some people who word things that way. it is too close to what i have fought against all my life. it is a order, and a judgement, rather than a sentence mixed in with at least niceness. i cant hear it any other way, even now, and i wish i could. i cant figure out WHY i cant. or why it hits me. it just does, i guess.

i have no idea WHY i posted something to ash. a weak, stupid moment i was obviously in brain dead mode. i am slapping myself for doing it still. God, what was i thinking. i might as well stand there and say take your best shot to someone. which is what i do, hoping each time it wont be a "shot" and it always is. that is something in me...something repetitive. why do i care? why do i want that? why do i not figure it out? i have no ideas.

i have accepted i will not in the foreseeable future cope well with people who speak in what i call preaching tone or ordering tone. i have to learn to step away from anyone who does that. i have been known to tell complete strangers to say please if they give me a order.

i will say i did not expect the response to be so intense and misunderstood. im always shocked at it and never seem to learn to shut up. esp since i was so happy something Ash said helped me so much during a panic attack the other day. her choice to disregard that did hurt a bit. i should learn to choose diff there also.

i do NOT MIND examples. i do not respond well to orders and something i hear in ashs tone just sets me off big time. which is MY problem, yes, i know. i need to avoid the people who sound like this. period. sometimes i must just lose my mind and post something in hopes it will be heard.

rather like a little kid still hoping the person will be nice to me and say something like im glad i could help you or i see your trying. and you know what? it aint gonna happen. and i need to quit needing it and wanting it.

shakes head at self*. dumb ass i am. that is a pattern i have at times. inner child shit.

ty for the post/ i wish looking back helped. it probably would with most others. i have no idea why Ash sparks this reaction in me. and i have no idea why i want her approval so badly at times. nor why i look for it...knowing i will get the exact same outcome as i have 100 times before.


logically i know all this. somehow it hasnt connected inside yet.

Jody,

You've been able to look at the situation and realize and accept a few things. You know you won't respond to Ash, but you'll react because you have a perceived tone when reading her words. To you, she's an authority figure and you question authority and it appears you may have difficulty trusting those in authority. You don't want to be "preached to" or "ordered to" do things. And you're right, it is your perception that Ash is doing those things. In your heart, I think you may see that she's trying to communicate and help.

My theory is that you try to gain Ash's acceptance because you believe if you can win her over, your battles will be less with people in real life. The thing is, you're assuming that Ash doesn't approve of you. I have not seen her say she doesn't approve. I have seen her try time and time again to understand from your perspective and she can't do it. She's tried, you've tried. Neither of you have the ability to step into the other's shoes because it's too difficult. This is not to say there is anything wrong with either of you. You're just different from one another (think brown eyes or blue eyes, neither is wrong or right). It's okay to be different.

It may help you in dealing with Ash to remember that you two see things differently and to remember, she is not attacking you in any way shape or form. If she were, you'd know it.

In this recent exchange, I see you wanting to hear what she's saying and she wanting to give you the information in a way you can consume it. Unfortunately, you're unable to hear her the way she's trying to help and understand.

Personally, I think you've done very well in understanding and accepting that you and Ash may not understand one another. A key lesson could be that you don't have to understand one another to exist with each other. Mutual respect goes a long way.

interesting, Nik.

if i knew i would post it. if i even had a guess, i would try it out for size. i dont.

the authority figure, yes. def. but why her? i dont know. same as something in me triggers her. she may not know either, but maybe, hell, in a previous life we clashed. that is a belief, you know, in many philosophies. you carry on relationships thru lifetimes and the ones that bug you the worst are ones that bugged ya in other lives. makes as much sense as anything else.

all i can get to is its something in how Ash words things. i have her down in my mind as "enemy" and i dont know why. (perhaps i perceive she has power over me and i dont like that, it feels scary)

something i can continue to work on and keep mutual respect in mind. see, i dont think Ash respects me at all. some of her words to me have indicated that. now possibly her words wouldnt have bothered anyone else. i know many here have told me over time she just isnt how i hear her.

but i dont know WHY i cant see that or cant hear her as they do.

true, i trust no one in authority. never have. maybe never will, i dunno. i was not taught authority was anything more than someone to lie to, sneak past, and would get me. (always told to lie to cops when they came looking for my dad and i was in my 30's then) as a adult, i see now how i was taught that but still, the ones in authority over me have not been good.

since its my thread, im gonna hijack it a little more and tell you this. my T believes my H has aspergers. i am just beginning to learn about it and explore it as "how to deal with a adult person with aspergers who has had no recovery" and it may open a lot of views for me. its possible i transfer my issues with him over to anyone like that in authority. (not saying ash has aspergers!) maybe i "hear" him in their words...somehow.

but Ash is, in my view, a type of person i have trouble understanding. with me, she seems quick to judge and state things, and few compliments have ever come from her to me. (stuff private i wont go into in public here). somehow, this statements of "jody is" just set me off inside. i become the child hearing it again. i long for compliments, almost in a way like wondering has her attachment to her T, in a strange way. (no, im not attached to Ash, but i want her approval for some strange reason)

i want Ash to like me. to see how im trying and see when i do good. holy shit, right. shakes head* my God. and it wont happen. perhaps im trying to fill what i have never gotten from another onto Ash. and its not gonna happen.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm. throwing out thoughts here as i am sitting here thinking.

this is too weird, right.

it seems my traits that others always hate/ed are exactly what ash doesnt like in me.

i appreciate your input a lot. i will keep working on this. you seem to have a good grasp of this...hearing things im not seeing in my own words and such.

i guess Nik was done with this...she never came back. and she had such good insights too....................


what i meant by saying "the traits others disliked in me were the same --i am assuming from things told me by Ash and others--that others disliked." i mean, my intenseness,my direct way of talking, my dislike and defensiveness over hearing "orders" rather than suggestions. unfortunately, she and others told me a lot of the same things my mom and H have, and that hits deep in me. ie...spending too much time on me, (oh man how many times have i heard THAT--as far back as first grade "your teacher is busy and cant waste her time on you") because i am slow to pick up ideas others are saying. how i drive someone bananas over my inability to do same. how i like to argue, which i consider discussions, how "others" dont like me because of this (that isnt from Ash but others)"thats why you have no friends, jody--because you are....fill in the blank at your discretion)", how passionate i can be about things--"dont stop to help the people in the wreck,dont stop for the injured cat, dont dont dont). how i need honesty but in a certain way ie..jody, you are fat is not the honesty i seek (because i was told that so much by my problem family people), they were famous for the saying "its a fact". it may be a fact, but who says one must speak it as a fact when its hurtful in certain forms?

anyways, calista, that is what i meant by that sentence. i never understood why certain traits i have bug others so much. i mean, if ya dont like my style, then well, shut up. lol. no one says ya gotta talk to me, right?

i always think there is the "personality police" out there. born to make sure others know every flaw they have and say it as if there is no fixing it, no way to change it, and its horrible beyond belief to have it.

it seemed to me they desired to remold me into a pod person they were comfortable with, rather than who i am inside. it created in me a fight against the change, and a very deep one at that.

unfortunately, some on here have the same "style" of speaking and i dont handle it well at all. and im sad about that, because im losing a opportunity to learn from them.

and that, is why i still "need" validation from others. i have never had it. and its hard to learn to let go of, when i spent so much of my life just wishing someone liked me for me. they didnt need to change me to be able to stand me. i have never known anyone who didnt. or who made sure i had faults, and i knew them, and they were given the job to make sure of it periodically. its hard to let go of that. i just never knew how, and i still dont to a large degree when im faced with a certain speaking style.

maybe that helps a little to clarify what i meant. i dont get to do much work on myself, so this thread is my way of doing that.

(((Jody))),

I am an "other" who likes you very much, just the way you are.

Jody, what I'm hearing in your last post suggests to me that there are certain traits about yourself that you define your personality with. These things have been 'called out' to you by others over the years in an invalidating way.

What I'm not understanding is.....In my mind the things like you suggested are not 'who we are' but rather manifestations of basic aspects of our personality. There are many ways to express these aspects, which we do or do not do based on Choice of Action.

Isn't there a way for you to express all these parts of your personality to the fulfillment of your own personal needs and yet not rub people the wrong way so often? You don't rub me the wrong way, btw, I'm another who does accept and like you just as you are---but if this is a prevailing theme in your life, Jody, well......then you are the common denominator, not them.

I see life as a big picture sorta thing--my H sees it in small parts and then finally gets around to seeing the larger scope of things. I have trouble seeing all the small steps to get me from point A to point B in my life, always have, but I've always been able to see the large, grand scheme. In recovery, I learned that I had to adapt and I that didn't take away from who I am. I'm still a big-picture oriented person, but now I force myself to see and look for those small parts. It doesn't mean I'm not me, just I've learned a new skill.

What I'm clumsily trying to say is that.....those things you mention do not make you 'who you are' IMO. Your love of the meek or hurt--that's part of Jody, but how it's expressed is mutable. Your 'slowness to learning' (as you call it) is part of you, but you choose to demand others teach you or find another, maybe less intrusive, way to still learn what you need to know. Your passion is of course part of you--but the way that passion is expressed is also a choice of action.

You CHOOSE how you hear things, Jody, no matter your PAST. That's the past, define the NOW for yourself, today.

That's a pretty significant quote, Jody. I can understand, too well, how this would happen. However--here's the kicker; They might have 'created' this within you, but it is YOU who are holding on to it. It is YOU who CHOOSE to ACT in such a way NOW that allows this old trauma to harm you still. I sincerely hope for you Jody, that you can see that, and make whatever choices you wish in the Now that will not hold you tied to your old trauma.

Please try to see that today is not yesterday--we really do not have to live out these old tapes!! Embrace the NOW.

((Jody))

awwww (((wondering))). i like you too. just for who you are. i always have.

H, let me try to address a few things you said.

a lot of this im just beginning to learn. i did not excuse myself with those reasons, i was just being very honest about how i feel. i never said it was right or ok. it just IS. i am working on it. inbetween all the other stuff in my life. by addressing it, honestly, i am working on it and dissecting it. maybe that didnt come across well.

i have had to learn to override the cptsd. to actually know there is other ways out there. this is how i work, to see the whys of something i feel or do, then change it up. its very hard because the coping mechs with cptsd are subconciously protecting me, albeit in a very useless way. im always surprised at how strong the feelings are.

of course im holding onto it...subconciously. its my only protection, so my mind thinks.. and im a lot better than i used to be. but it is hard to make my inner child, my subconcious, let go of what it considers protection. it bugged me unreal why i cant get along with Ash. why i needed her approval so badly. so i worked on it.

i only meant 3 people in my life,,,maybe it sounded like a lot the way i typed it. they all have something in common and i had to figure out what it was and why it bugged me so bad i forgot my skills. the common denominator indeed is me, how i respond or feel about their speaking and communicating styles. they want to lay off their choices on me. and that is my core issue with the cptsd. that is when i flip.

my belief on the """" but you choose to demand others teach you or find another, maybe less intrusive, way to still learn what you need to know. """". i dont demand stuff of anyone. if anything, i am very quiet in real unless its with a total stranger. . on here i have come out much more in ways, and tried various things to experiment. if they see it as such, they need to tell me their boundaries. not tell me "i spent blah blah time on you and its your fault". this is the issue i have had of the other ones in my life, they had no boundaries and blamed me for what they chose to do. hell, then dont answer me if its the case. i have a incredible problem with being blamed for others choices. back off. i hold no gun to anyone here, or in real. i would even open the door for them. just dont stay around and then whine how stupid i am to waste your time. that is one basis for my inner stuff. its like i hold a gun MAKING someone do something.

i just got* one issue. its when i hear another blame me for their behavior to me. thats the style i cant cope well with. when they say "i feel..when you...." and add in "so stop it already". im almost to the core of this, i do believe.

your right, i agree. i have just learned its my choices and how to choose better ones. but sometimes things come along to trigger this and i wanted to know why and work it thru.

""""""What I'm not understanding is.....In my mind the things like you suggested are not 'who we are' but rather manifestations of basic aspects of our personality.""""" ? that is who we are. what do you believe? how diff? that is who i am. annoying, im sure. passionate, yes. intense, yes. im a saggitarius. lol. what i dont like is someone saying "you are this and that and i hate it but im here talking to you". well, if one hates it, then dont talk to me! they want me to change it to make them more comfortable, not because i need to change it.

""""Isn't there a way for you to express all these parts of your personality to the fulfillment of your own personal needs and yet not rub people the wrong way so often?""" well, i dont TRY to rub someone the wrong way. i think this is their issue, and i have spent years in counseling to unlearn what i was taught.

does this make sense to you, H?

I spent years struggling with this too. People didn't like this about me or that about me. One day I finally said STOP! I am ME. If people dont' like me for who I am, then they have choices. They don't have to be my friend, they don't have to talk to me, etc. I cannot change who I instrinsically am for other people. Of course, some people do offer constructive criticism. But that's different. But I'll be darned if I'm going to change who I am to please others.

I went through that for 30 years. I'm done with it. If people don't like me, that's their problem. I know it sounds easier-said-than-done. It's not easy. But I am too old to try to live my life the way others want/expect me to.

In RL, I am a friendly, out-going person. I talk to people. Even my H used to get on my case about this. But I will not stop being who I am - I cannot lie to myself. Of course I will keep myself safe. But I don't want to spend the rest of my life apologizing.

I know many of us had traumatic situations while we were growing up. But we are no longer little children. We control ourselves now. As long as I am respectful of other people and don't hurt anyone, than I have nothing to apologize for.

I know it bothers you when people say "Jody, you are this or you are that." But maybe what they really are saying is "Jody, is there a better way to approach this?" Try not to look at these suggestions as an attack on Jody, but more as a way to help you see things from a different perspective. Once you take away that judgmental thinking, you can then focus on the tools aspect and not feel so bad.

I hope this helps somewhat.

Thanks for the reply Jody :)

I feel like I'm not communicating very well lately, so I'm going to break it up and try to do better.

I did hear that, and I applaud you for taking a look at this stuff. It's not easy!! I understand that you are not excusing yourself, and I appreciate your honesty. I see you working very hard at much of your 'stuff' lately, and I'm just trying to help; to encourage you in that endeavor.

Learning, discovering, the way something IS (for me) is a good starting point. Sometimes I choose to accept it the way it IS or I choose to change it. The point for me is that once I know what IS, I then have that choice for how I respond to the same thing in the future.


It may be a subconscious response. I get that and I identify with that. The thing is.....now you consciously know about it. So, maybe even sometimes after the fact, now you can use your self-talk and other skills/tools to address it consciously. It doesn't Have to be--forever. We Can change, I know it because I have done it.

I'm not just talking about the thing with Ash. How can you apply what you have now learned from that situation to other similar situations in your life?


It did seem like more...but I get the 'who's' now. Thanks for clarifying.


I don't think I worded that well. ;) I don't mean demanding as in 'tell me now or else'......

In RL people don't go around telling each other their boundaries, in my experience. Not that explicitly. Most 'normals' I know have never even really thought that specifically about what their boundaries are, it's just something they intuitively 'know' about themselves. Whereas me, I have to really think about it and clearly define these things in my own head! They also are really willing to help others, even when it crosses their tolerance a little. It's not until afterwards, thinking back on the situation that some people think to themselves 'wow, I just spent x hours of my time on so and so and none of it mattered'. I guess the key is letting them know it matters, whether you 'get' what they are saying or not, it still needs to be an exchange where both parties feel they have given and received something.

There may be an expectation that is indeed not yours to own, but could have been prevented by you with a little pre-planning of sorts. I dunno, it just seems to me like in all interaction, it takes two. I would venture that maybe they do not fully understand your intentions/expectations every time you ask a question any more than you understand their intentions/expectations when they answer. We can't read each other's minds--some things have to be spelled out clearly.


Since you are aware this style of conversation brings out something deep within you....could you not, in the NOW, try to switch up what ever they have said in your own mind before you react? I mean, say it to yourself in another way that is still true to what the person is saying.....

"I feel mad when you forget to make dinner, so stop it already" can become
"x needs to have dinner in a regular fashion to maintain emotional stability" maybe that's leaping a bit so..
"x feels angry pre-arranged events do not occur" would be better
instead of "I did something wrong/ I am wrong"--
It doesn't have to have anything to do with You. Then you can proceed to heed the new info or change, depending on what You wish to do with the new information.


Again, maybe I'm not wording well. Yes, who you are is passionate, intense. But how you express that passion/intensity is your Choice of Action. If your personality is such that many in your life are having difficulty getting along or understanding you, I don't think IMO, that it is unreasonable to maintain that aspect of personality but do so in a way that people are more willing to accept. For me, it comes down to effectiveness.

I'm different in my religious views. I live in a very Christian state. I am not Christian. I do not convert to Christianity, but I also do not force my views on others or flaunt the fact that I am not a Christian. In fact, most people just assume I am and I don't care--I know who and what I am. Their assumptions are not mine to correct. If a discussion comes up, I vocalize my perspective, but I don't flaunt it when I don't have to, telling others my beliefs (who I am) just because it is what it is. In my area, I would be ousted, ostracized for my beliefs. I could choose to wear it like a banner and place myself in the victim role, or allow others to think whatever they want secure in my own knowledge of self. I choose the latter.

Exactly. In everything you do. It gets easier with practice!! :D

Jody, I just read Ash's reply to BG and it's what I'm trying to get across about 'who we are'.

Thanks Ash, you have a way of putting things I just can't do!

I have had very low self-esteem for most of my life. When I started seeing my first T, she helped me a lot! She showed me that I can be happy with who I am. That I don't have to apologize for being who I am. That I have value and worth. She showed me that I don't have to feel ashamed for who I am.

I do not have a chip on my shoulder. I want to like myself. I want to feel that I can madk a difference in the world. I don't want to apologize for who I am and what I do. I did that for too many years. Now, as I accomplish things, people turn to me. They respect me. It's an amazing feeling! I don't do the volunteer work that I do to get accolades and thanks, but it's awfully nice to be respected and appreciated. In junior high I had hardly any friends and other kids laughed at me. Boy, what a change.

What gets in the way is ME - my anxiety, my depression, my low self-esteem. I often feel like I'm two different people. I am my own worst enemy. I have to stop jumping to conclusions. I have to try to stop obsessing. I have to stop hurting myself. I have to be kinder to myself. Heck, 3 years ago I wasn't even aware of most of this stuff.

Yes, it's an on-going struggle. To get people to take you seriously, to have them listen to you, to respect yourself. Paradoxically, I go out in the world and am respected and listened to. It's when I'm home, by myself, when I listen to the old tapes. I need to make new tapes.

i would like and appreciate deeply if a mod would split out Bg and Ashs exchange. this is my thread, and i want to work on me. im not usually this protective of my threads but this time i will ask this.

maybe because so many of mine have been cut out of others, and i have been told to not hijack, i dont want this hijacked. its confusing to me.

thank you whoever will do this. i will keep asking until its done or explained to me why it wont be.

H, let me see how to answer you. when im told """"I know it bothers you when people say "Jody, you are this or you are that." But maybe what they really are saying is "Jody, is there a better way to approach this?" Try not to look at these suggestions as an attack on Jody, but more as a way to help you see things from a different perspective. Once you take away that judgmental thinking, you can then focus on the tools aspect and not feel so bad.""""" my defenses spring up. it is part of my cptsd and very hard to understand or work on. but this isnt helpful, altho i appreciate the idea behind it. this feeling needs to be embraced, undone, and "telling myself" something is not gonna work. it simply makes me more defensive and more afraid.

i dont know HOW to not see it as a attack. "jody, you are annoying me". that is NOT a attack? i do see a better way to address it, i am gonna say "then leave me alone if i bug you so!" next time. i will NOT defend myself again.

H, i dont think i can get this across unless one has cptsd. it is something i work on, to choose to not allow it power over me but it is a self preservation feeling of immense proportions. it is a fight inside me to overcome this. i am fighting against myself for preservation. it isnt easy. im shaking just typing this now. to choose "better ones" means fighting my very sense of living and being safe. its very hard. im still in the beginning stages. somedays i just dont have the energy to even want to fight against even more than i already have.

i would like to remind you i am married to a alcoholic aspergers person. i have a bipolar daughter. i have few others who might be normal in my life at the moment. like last night, sometimes i simply come home and go to bed because i cant cope any longer. this holiday season is very hard for me for various reasons. i try not to whine about it, as others have it much worse. but...sometimes its not easy. i need to remember what i have...not what i dont. or how flawed i am. somedays its all i can do to fight both of them.

i appreciate your views, H. i always like to hear them,,,they usually help me a ton. thanks!!!!

Hi Jody


I feel the need to point out this was not what I said to you; it was what BG said to you.


The cptsd diagnosis has been thrown out there for me too (in my early 20's), I have simply dismissed it in my own head. I have no idea if it's on my charts or not. I don't really care what labels they use. I didn't like that one because I felt it gave too much power to my attackers, for me personally. I didn't want a label of something because of what someone else did. That's just me, though.

I do have experiences in my past that haunt me, to the extreme. I do understand, to what extent another can, some of what you describe here. I identify with that fight you describe. I know those shakes--for myself. I also know how difficult it can be in the beginning, which is why I'm trying to help. Some days it is easier, and IMO better, to not fight. We can only do what we can do for that moment.

I am seeing that you are having a tough time right now with many aspects of your life. It must be difficult with few 'normals' to guide you. The holidays can be very tough.

In any case, I'm sorry to have not been helpful this time. I do feel for you ((Jody)) and I wish you the best!

sorry, that was BG. my bad. thanks for figuring that out. where is my brain today?

H, you do help me. in many ways. dont ever think you dont. i was just trying to explain to you how i felt and why its so hard for me, esp on days im not so mentally healthy because my family members have just sucked out all i have to give. i will recharge!

my aspie board has been a lifesaver. its a great board for anyone who is a partner of someone with aspergers. but i need "here" to work on me.

well the label isnt something because of what someone else did, exactly. its a label for who i became to cope and survive, so i feel its about me as a person. i respect your beliefs tho. totally.

no, you do help. always. ((H))

thanks to Ash for splitting that out.

im not sure why im so protective of this thread. im not usually ever like that. well ok i do know one reason but no way will i say it in public because i dont think anyone would understand, i think it may cause more shit than its worth, its scary to stand up for myself in this way, and i come across as a ungrateful spoiled child in the reasoning.

so thanks for doing it.