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I feel sad about the state of the board. This time it's worse than ever. Hardly anyone is here and I feel sad for the new members who deserve better. I feel sad for myself because I feel the loss of a comraderie that was built up for several years. I hope the new people will stick around and get to know each other so that what "we" had will happen again. I never was good at letting go and moving on. Yes, I PM and email those I have a relationship with, but there was something about being part of this board that was satisfying to me. It's gone and I have to grieve. Doesn't it bother anyone else? I never heard of grieving for the loss of a board! I'm not being sarcastic; I'm serious.

I'm not asking for those who haven't posted to come out of the woodwork and say you're still here. I am not trying to start a "why did this happen" thread either. I just want to share my feelings about losing something that was meaningful to me, and won't ever be the same again. Change is hard for me, and this is a change, and not one that I chose. I've always had difficulty leaving groups, jobs, friendships, when I'm not the one leaving, when it just happens that the dynamics change and life goes on. I'm big on nostalgia and wanting things to stay the same. So, while not terribly traumatic, I just feel sad and want to be honest about it. Maybe it's some kind of closure I need. I have to give myself permission to let go, and move on though I don't want to. It's hard. Well, just my honest thoughts about what's going on when I sign in these days.

((wondering))

im sorry you feel bad.

for me, i just dont need the board much anymore. im beyond a lot of things i used to need help with. i have little patience and i should have more. i fear my replies probably reflect that fact, and they shouldnt.

i wish you would email me to keep in touch.

for me, altho it was a bad thing at the time, my losing trust in people here gave me the desire to move on more. good things can come from bad things. we just have to look for them.

no, i dont grieve anything here. i think all it was anyways was in my mind, and it never existed how i kept hoping it did. somehow i woke up one morning and realized, i dont need a lot of things i used to need.

hang in there, wondering, you are a dear person to me. we all have to move on, tho. to learn to not "need" a crutch so much. to learn all boards just wont be what we need sometimes. i am the same person tho, just a bit smarter now --lol---ok, sometimes. holler at me anytime you want. jody

ps...

whats funny is so little hurts me anymore. it used to be, i could be so hurt over stuff on here. i just dont have a ---word?----im not invested here so much any more. i dont expect things any more.

as i said, its not what i guess i pictured or wished for in my mind. much of my stuff was simply in my own imagination, and i saw it just wasnt reality. plus i saw i could do things for myself, stand on my own, and pick and choose what i believe in now. i dont need others to define that for me.

i wish for you to get to that point also. not that i still dont need help, or need to work on me, but its just diff now. i seldom feel the urge to reply to people any more. i dont feel it is helpful, or i can be helpful much anymore.

except you,,,now... the others i feel im kinda spitting in the wind, and im not sure why i was doing that. there isnt much of the nitty/gritty basic work going on. (as i see it only, not saying it isnt, just as i see it)

as you said also, it has changed. its so less strict, less in your face helpful. oh, for the days i got told off and it was useful!

i think its fine to grieve. its important to you, and you feel it. so yes, grieve its loss. i find myself grieving a lot of losses lately.

remember tho, this has stuck with me over the years and i paraphrase this a bit for myself. things are in our lives for a reason, a season, or a time. they come when we need them, or for awhile, then they pass and we move on to the next thing we need, or needs us.

i will not beat my head in any longer to help ways i feel the board needs direction, also. it evolves, as do all things. i allow that to happen now. anyone who truly wants help, will find it. if you ask, you receive. i truly believe that.

I remember way back in the old days, too. I miss nothing. It's the way things are. Everything dies. Everything has a cycle. Maybe one day this place will be full of people, maybe not. It happens.

I remember a whole different group of people when I first found BPDR. Like Jody, some feel they don't need the board anymore. Others find they just don't have the time. Others leave angrily. Others are asked to leave. I stay because I feel this board helped me tremendously when I needed it, and I want to return the favor and help others. But in the years I've been here, I've seen a few different incarnations of this board due to the people who were posting. Like Terrabus said, everything has a cycle. And like Terrabus, sometimes "old" names pop up again.

(((Jody))),

I admire you very much for being able to move on! I also agree with you about not much "nitty-gritty" work going on. I don't know exactly how to express that, but I know exactly what you mean. I like to connect with people on a deep level, and used to do that here. It doesn't happen now. I like to help others, too. I will have to find that somewhere else.

I can see that it will be a good thing for me to become "free" of the board, but just like giving up therapy, I have to go at my own pace. If it's not satisfying me, then why stick around? I don't think I need the board anymore. I just "want" it. Same as I "want" my T. I enjoyed the interactions, the long threads with many posters and different ideas. The feedback. The way you never know what the replies will be like. It was sort of exciting to me. I love to write and connect with others. I will just transfer that to writing individuals.

Terrabus and Trinity: Yeah, everything has a cycle. Everything changes. Maybe that's the most important lesson I'm learning from the board. I can satisfy myself in other ways instead, and go with the flo. I'm going to have to work on it. Thanks.

(((Wondering)))

I just wanted to chime in and say that I hear where you are coming from. It is different around here, but I haven't been here long enough to watch the cycles. All things change, we have to learn to embrace that inevitable change. But no one said that was an easy process!

Since you mention not enough 'nitty gritty' work being done, have you tried to RA some of this? Maybe even work the 5 steps? I guess I'm thinking that some of the tools here might help with this situation.


I second this, Trinity!

i dont feel i can help the board much. occasionally some person --maybe. but i have too many differing views with the board itself to be much help, i probably would just end up in trouble again and drama beginning and that got old quick already. dont want to see the movie again.

just basic differing opinions...which happens in the world. no big deal any longer as it used to be. just why i pulled back and once i did i found i didnt need to go back.

losing trust is a big deal for me, once lost i have a lot of trouble regaining it. if i even wanted to. once i felt that void, i knew it was over.

anyways, this is about wondering, not me. sorry. i didnt plan on this, wondering. i just realized one day i let it all go. nothing to admire , girl. it just happened. i think when your ready, it just "is".

trinity said the board helped her. it helped me also, but in a weird way because it didnt mean to. i just took what was given me and changed it around.

I'm very new to this board but what has been said about not much "nitty gritty " work being done puts into words what I've been feeling about this group. For about a week I've been reading all the new posts and felt I haven't really gained much from some and others are just totally irrelevant ,playtime actually.I didn't come here for entertainment,I came here for insight and support. Don't mean to insult anyone but have been feeling like I'm not going to be around here very long .I wonder what it used to be like.....

podjoe, everyone needs to do the nitty gritty work. If you're not getting anything, why don't you start a thread about whatever situation you happen to be facing? I also think that by saying this nitty gritty work isn't being done invalidates the people I've seen posting in Seasons Passes and On the Couch about some serious problems. Anyway, my point is this group is what it is based on the level of involvement. That includes you, podjoe.

The board is - and always has been - a fluid commodity. It is a community and all communities are made up of individuals. As the population changes - people come, people go - the dynamics shift and it can take a little bit of time for the equilibrium to be regained. Additionally, there is usually a lull following a flare-up of drama as tails are tucked, wounds are licked, etc. Lastly, I think there is something to be said for the need for a driver - someone to get people motivated and focused.

Just because ya'll seem to think it's "Ash's board" doesn't mean that it's entirely up to me to be the driver. Just because there are a few people here who have CL or SCL attached to their names doesn't mean that they are the sole arbiters of generating focus, interest, change, etc.

Since we're here to work on ourselves - rather than to receive some miracle cure handed to us on a silver platter - it's up to each of us to ask for what we want and then work on it ourselves even if we don't get what we were looking for from the group.

Ash, you have never liked this belief but here it is again.

by being a mod, one is a driver. the title conveys and comes with responsibilities. like it or not. by being the admin and owner of this site, that comes with responsibilities.

it should not be completely up to us as members to police or disagree with flaming or such. it is up to the mods...to.... well........."moderate". mentor. guide. that is why one has mods online. it became awhile back into this...."tell us when something happens". umm, thats your job. not ours. sorry if you dont like it. if not, dont be one, then. if you dont have the time to allow for it, decline the honor of the title.

we have always clashed on that idea. rules and guidelines. same old argument. without guidance, like it or not, things fall apart. i know the mods wont like this, im sure it might hurt a bit to hear. i dont mean to be hurtful, only honest. boards need guidance.

you appreciated how i spoke to janez awhile back. and im glad you did. but it wasnt my job. i just sat and watched a bit and figured out, no one is gonna call this, are they. it wasnt my place to jump in there. i have no authority to do it. but i dont like places that allow such wording used. i stood up for my own beliefs only, i do not like certain labels used toward other people. same argument as before...same shit, diff day, wasnt it.

someone has to drive. like it or not. when no one drives, it becomes a cluster fuck parking lot of demolition derby.

by guidance i dont mean telling someone how slow they are, or dense, or how they waste your resources. i mean being respectful but objective to everyone.

anyone simply can not take newbies to recovery and say...here, play-- without explaining the game. they are lost and will be lost. like driving a car, someone has to show another how to drive first. not say..here is the keys, go.

podjoe, we used to be strict on here. we were called on things. we worked on the concepts of the tools. it was not entertainment. it was a place to come for ourselves and hear objective, respectful views from others on what we were doing. we were told firmly when we strayed.

its not a place to dig deep into US. people ignore responses much more -- only in my view--because they dont want to do the work or dont know how. it seems to be flailing in place and im not sure why. maybe just a cycle. maybe not. i dont know.

i do know its too good a place to stand by and watch implode. thus, i post my views on it. i have no power tho, no title, no authority. i just hate to stand by and watch something break that was worth something and can be again.

just my opinion. take, sort, toss, whatever you choose.

We are experiencing the same kind of thing on another board. Ash is right, people do come and go, but i think we feel it more when we've participated together for a somewhat long period and developed limited online "relationships" with fellow posters. It does feel kind of sad. I've never been a very regular poster but I have always liked this board.

I do think that some of the reason for the lull is due to the previous drama that was going on for awhile. I think a lot of people got fed up and left.

Jody, I have to say I disagree with your opinion about the responsibilities of mods. I have been a mod on another board for about three years, and I certainly do not consider myself a driver. This place isn't an elementary school. And even though there was a lot of turmoil here for awhile, and a lot of crap was allowed to continue for too long, I do think that Ash did finally step in and make things right. So I don't understand why you still seem disgruntled with the leadership here. I have seen resolution where apparently you have not, and it is starting to look like yet another "can't win for losing" situation for Ash and other admins.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

A CL / SCL at BPDR is generally tasked with:

• assisting with the technical aspects (signature, formatting, etc.) wherever possible
• welcoming newcomers
• starting the monthly birthday thread
• responding to member inquiries - in public or private
• responding to reported complaints about specific posts/threads
• sharing their wisdom with the BPDR tools
• being themselves, as regular folk, flawed human beings with issues and problems of their own and real lives to contend with
• removing objectionable content (porn, spam, revealing details that betray basic privacy, etc.)
• doing the best they can.

If there is something a person finds objectionable, use the "REPORT THIS POST" button. We cannot be expected to be all-seeing & all-knowing simply because we happen to have CL/SCL titles, for pity's sake! We have lives too and it's absolutely ridiculously unreasonable to expect that we (as a group or individually) will be able to see everything you're seeing the exact moment you're seeing it AND see it in exactly the same way you're seeing it. If you have a problem with something you're seeing, if you sit on your hands and fume that "someone" (aka The Mods) aren't doing something about it, you are just as much to blame for what goes on around here. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. We cannot read your minds - no more than we can be here every second of every day to read every syllable posted here - so unless we are notified that "Hey, there's a problem here & this is how I see it" consider it unseen by The Mods.

If you would prefer to have a moderator/administrator team that is omnipresent and capable of monitoring every single thing every single moment of the day, please let me know and I will gladly give out some recommendations for other boards. That will not happen here. Period. End of story.

This message has not changed in eight years. If you want something else, that sounds like a You Problem not a Me Problem.

I recall a rant I posted on this board about four years ago called "Why Are We Here?" and it pointed out that this board is peer-to-peer recovery.

Ash ain't my therapist. None of you people are. However, I come here and post because I need feedback on my attituides and behaviors. And I get that.

I'm thankful for all the people who have posted in threads I have started or posted in for the effort they put into reading and analyzing.

I also have seen a pattern where the responses are "bare bones" and not so much stylish. I was a stylish poster, if you recall, and I pissed a whole lot of people off. That was how I posted. Now, I make an effort to be "bare bones" and not get into anything but the issue at hand with the shortest answer possible. You should have seen some of those posts. I figured because I used a 2X4 on myself, others would want it, too. That didn't go over very well.

Podjoe, if you're having an issue, post a thread and see what happens. That's what I do. Of course, sometimes I don't post anything because I know what the responses will be and I don't want to work on me, I just want to roll in my shit. But that's me. You might have better luck.

I like it when folks jump onto a thread and give their two cents and experiences. Sometimes, even a cyberhug is better than silence.

Don't give up on this board. There is a lot of experience, strength and hope here. And just because Ash ain't getting on every single thread, it doesn't mean the thread aint' no good or your issue is crap. It's just an openning for somebody else.

Hey, this was my thread about my feelings. So, I think this lull, Ash, is going on for a very long time. I wonder if anyone is interested in getting back the sense of CARING that many of us felt for each other. I think that's what is missing. Terrabus, you may like brief posts, but to me, they mean someone had a few minutes and was in a hurry to post without thinking too much about it. There hasn't been much follow-through lately. It's like people don't want to get involved like they used to.

I can see that happening again, maybe. The new people have to work at it. Posting once in a blue moon does not make for relationships. Of course, I'm reading into it what I liked about the board. We were close, even with the drama. If the purpose is just to post a problem, get a few replies, and then you're done, I guess the board is still working. It's just not as productive, in my opinion.

I don't think it has to do with the mods being here or not, though I didn't realize they had so much to do other than posting. I admit I did like it better when the mods did post more. I thought that was the most important part of their job, but Ash's post showed that I was wrong.

I didn't want to criticize the board, just state my feelings of sadness about it. It's up to those who participate to change it, I agree. It will be interesting to see how long it will take, or to see if it will just stay the same.

Mindreading.

There are many reasons why a post might be short. And a short post may be well thought out.

Better, in my opinion, to judge a post by the quality of it's contents, not how long it is. Long isn't always better. Long sometimes makes it hard to find the message. And sometimes a well-written short statement can offer a lot of wisdom.

Yeah, this post is short. I've no need for a long post to say what I have to say.

I would love nothing more than to have BPDR (and possibly a few other things) as my full-time job so I could devote umpteen hours a day to delving deeply into things, exploring, probing, discussing, sharing, etc.

As it is, my new job is very demanding; I'm still taking college coursework in my "spare time" and my husband was laid off this week so saying that I have a full plate is a bit of an understatement. If I could make this place my full-time job, I would do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I'm not able to at the moment.

Three years ago, I was in a daytime job that was barely a full-time job. I'd go to the office 8 hrs a day but I'd only really put in about 20 hrs a week worth of work.

Two years ago, I took a different job that was more demanding and I was putting in about 35 hrs a week worth of work, leaving maybe an hour a day for my personal stuff, including BPDR.

Three months ago, I took on yet another new role and I've literally been putting in 45-50 hrs a week of true, honest-to-gosh work-work leaving almost no time whatsoever to devote to BPDR. School work and family life will come before BPDR when I'm not at work; that's just the way it is for me. That's how I've chosen to prioritize things in my life and I make no apologies for it.

If ya'll feel like I've let you down, I'm sorry to hear that. I can't change it - at least not for the near future - and I won't put BPDR before my real life.

I cannot be expected to bear the full burden of BPDR alone. I don't think most of ya'll expect that I should but I do get the sense that some of you think "this is all my fault" - that people have developed real lives, that they don't have the time to devote to spending three hours on a single post to one person, that there's not a lot more hands-on guidance.

Again, I point to my previous post. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If you want to see more hands-on work, get in there and work with people. I'm a big believer of: "In order to get that promotion, you should already be doing the work of that role."

And honestly, that's pretty much how each and every SCL and CL here got the titles they did - they stepped up, the chimed in, they shared, they guided, they mentored, they discussed, they probed.

If ya'll have come to lean on them and their presence as a crutch, then it would seem we've failed you to some degree and you've definitely failed yourselves by expecting someone else to carry you forward to the next step instead of taking personal responsibility for your own growth, for stepping up to the plate and taking part in helping shape the very community ya'll claim to love.

Ash,
I'm not sure how you got to the conclussion that somehow, somebody feels "let down". I might have missed it in this thread.

If I read correctly, Wondering is looking for more of a personal relationship with the folks on this forum rather than recovery and only recovery.

I know this forum is personal to you. You have put a lot of your lifeforce into it. There might be a list of personal messages to you I obviously don't know about, but I cannot find a post on the forum that accuses you of anything. No place have I found a post with "all Ash's fault" anywhere.

It's a Friday, I hope you don't have to work this weekend and can take some time off. Relax and let the life in these tubes known as the 'net flow.

Let me respond to this. First off ,that is NOT what I said. What I said was that when I read others saying not much "nitty -gritty" work was being done here validated what I was feeling about the group--- that there was something missing--and that expression put that feeling of what was missing into words for me.As far as invalidating anyone,nothing that I could ever say could possibly invalidate anyone unless they allowed it to.One thing I have come to accept after 6 years of therapy,is that sometimes I have to trust myself(actually I should trust myself most times)--I interpret this as validating myself--even when those around you can't or won't, and believe me when I tell you I grew up around people that couldn't or wouldn't--- so I had to find it in other ways,not always positive but that's the real challenge now,finding healthy ways.(Someone keeps posting something about trusting yourself--wish I could think of it now)

"As soon as you trust yourself,you will know how to live" -Goethe -. This was the saying I was referring to and it was posted by you ,Trinity.

Ultimately validation is internal. That's right. But your words do have an effect on others. That's why the one of the four agreements say "Be impeccable with your word."

What you actually said was:



If you don't mean to insult anyone, why is it necessary to add the caveat? If you're being impeccable with your word, you are saying what you mean. You should need to qualify it. Otherwise it seems to me you're saying something different, which is why interpreted your words as meaning the nitty gritty isn't being done.

Wondering,

It seems you have gotten lost in this thread. I want you to know that you are being heard. I understand and identify with the feelings of loss for the relationships once shared. It is my belief that although things change, we can develop that emotional connection with those that are here in the NOW. It just might take some time to rebuild. I, for one, will work to make sure that happens.

Do you have any ideas on what we can do to achieve this, other than asking something of others? What can we do independent of other's choices? I for one want to work with you and others to find a solution and move forward.

Ash--
I don't think anyone is expecting you to take on the ALL the responsibilities of the board. The board is going through a 'change' of sorts. Change--uncertainty-- can be frightening or sad sometimes. People want to hold on to what they know, generally speaking. It sounds like you have had some experience with change over the last couple of years. That perspective is valuable. Isn't there a way for us all to quit debating what cannot change and use that time more wisely? I know that's what you desire around here too. So far, I've stayed out of things or tried to. But that's not working, so I'm trying another way. Isn't there a way to compromise--to find the grey--amidst all this? I'm not suggesting you change policy or compromise there, but what I hear being asked of you is simply that you recognize as owner of this board, your voice 'counts' more to some people. For good or bad and regardless of how you feel about it, that's how it is or at least how some are perceiving it. Looking at history, most leaders I know anything about didn't choose to be in that position or want it, but they found themselves there anyway.

BTW, I don't feel like you've let us down or anything. I'm not really sure who all the "ya'll's" were directed towards, but many here just want the fighting to stop so we can move on. It's just not such a healthy place with all that negativity. It sounds to me you are doing the best you can and that's all I could ask-- I appreciate your role here. I like the mantra "if your not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". I think it applies to all community members, mod and regular alike. It's a good thing for us all to keep in mind.

((wondering)) im sorry you feel sad. is it change? because things evolve and change? is that a bit scary to you? it is to me.

can you identify what it is exactly and maybe think up a plan on how you can do something to help you feel better?

is there a need you can identify that you can post about or ask and maybe learn how to fill inside you?

my apologies for hijacking your thread.

As far as the board not being as busy as some would like... I understand that it's frustrating when a board you visit and like, whether for social reasons or mental health help, is less busy than it used to be, or less busy than one would like. But, at the same time, I feel like if I were to say "the board's not busy enough", that's should thinking. It's me having this idea of how busy the board should be, and being upset because it isn't like that. But should thinking just leads to frustration. Better, I think, radical acceptance combined with me doing what I can do. If I would like things to be different, I do what I can do, and accept the limits of what I can do. The world doesn't bend itself to my will. And I'm okay with that.