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As I once again contemplate the meaning and methods of “recovery from BPD,” a new concept has come to mind… that of “management of BPD.” I wonder, do those of you who no longer fit the criteria for BPD consider yourselves “recovered” or do you say you are “managing” your BPD?
Is complete “recovery” really possible when the nature of the disorder is ingrained behaviors and personality traits?
I have grappled with the idea of recovery for at least two years now. I joined BPDR in May 2007. I am very self-aware and can recognize the dysfunctional traits in my personality and behaviors. So what exactly is holding me back from committing to “doing the work” of recovery? I wonder if it is my own skepticism about the validity of the term “recovery” as it pertains to BPD…
Someone on this board used the term “managing my BPD.” I think I like that better. That seems a little more realistic to me. Because really, now, as much as you work to “re-wire your brain” and “learn new coping mechanisms,” in the end, are you not at your very core still the same person?
On this board, we certainly have a diverse group of people. Some are deeply entwined in their “borderline ways” and resistant to changing but aware that change is necessary. Some are working toward change, but stumbling on hurdles along the way. Some are working toward change and passing every test along the way. And still others have done a lot of work on themselves but are here for some “fine tuning.” Then there are those who consider themselves “recovered” and are maybe here to help guide the rest of us to “healthy, happy living.” So my question for those of you who consider yourselves in this last group is, would you say you are “recovered” or “managing your symptoms?” Furthermore, I wonder if your “status” would change if an unexpected event in your life disrupted your equilibrium. When life throws you a curveball, do you feel those old borderline tendencies creeping back up? Do you ever feel like you slip back into your old coping mechanisms and dysfunctional behaviors? Does the urge to slip back ever come up?
Okay, so here is one example. Abandonment and loneliness. Very difficult concepts for a “borderline” to manage. So much so that when one is in the thralls of the disorder, the very idea of being “abandoned” or being “alone” can set off a stream of self-destructive behaviors or acting out against others. But when those fears are alleviated, the borderline returns to a state of calm. There may still be acting out and inappropriate reactions to other triggers, but at least they no longer feel abandoned or alone and so there is a sense of inner peace and self-confidence. One observation may be that those on the board who are married tend to be managing their BPD very well. I wonder, is that because the fear of abandonment has been eliminated by that vow of unity with your partner?
What if you no longer had that security? What if that “safety net” was ripped away? Do you think you would still be able to manage your symptoms and suppress your feelings of abandonment? How do you think your management of your BPD symptoms now compares to when you were single? Or do you not think there is any correlation between being married and having a good handle on your BPD?
For those of you who started working on recovery while you were still single, how long were you single and working on recovery and did you see any changes in your progression toward recovery once you got married? And what if you had to go back to being single? How do you think you would handle that adjustment?
Getting back to the original question posed… do you think you are managing your symptoms – meaning they are still there and could perhaps rear their ugly heads again if triggered – or are you “recovered” – meaning that the re-emergence of a trigger will not lead to a relapse?

Is it possible that those who manage their symptoms better or are further along in recovery are more likely to get and stay married? Just saying, there's more than one possible explanation for things we see.



Well, being married to someone who was quite clearly securely married to her did not stop my wife from having a very bad episode, separating, and needing four hospitalizations last year (we are back together now). Her lack of control over her feelings was not caused by external circumstances, it was caused by internal disturbance. Or perhaps it could be said "an internal malfunction in processing/handling external circumstances".

It's hard to articulate this ... what I mean is that obviously she does and did react to and interact with various external circumstances ... but the distortions in perception and thinking aren't caused by the external circumstances. That's why they consistently show up and recur as symptoms, even as circumstances change around her, or she removes herself to a different environment.

Since the fear of abandonment isn't a rational fear, it can't be assuaged (consistently, for long) by rational reassurances and "security" from a partner. That's been my observation, anyway.

Actually, the "security" of my total codependent devotion to her and enmeshment with her almost certainly made things worse for her.

Excellent point! Curious to see what others have to say...

I think the difference in perspective has in part to do with how we see BPD.

Is BPD something that is on top of who we are, and that keeps us from fully being our authentic selves? If so, then recovery is possible, and is a good goal.

This is my view. I do know I have things about me that are different from the typical average. Those things aren't BPD. BPD isn't the innate difference. It's the unhealthy coping mechanisms and behaviors. And to me, if you don't meet the diagnostic criteria, you don't have BPD. You may still have issues to deal with. You may have stuff you need to manage rather than recovery from. But those things aren't BPD.

Alternatively, is BPD something that is innate in who someone is? This is how people with Asperger's usually see Aspergers, and some people see BPD that way as well. This view would say that we can get better, healthier, but those difference that remain, those are still BPD.

I think, those who see everything that keeps them from being mentally normal as BPD, well, those people are often going to have an attitude that BPD is something that will stay with me. I can't be mentally normal, therefore I will always have BPD.

My thinking is, I'll never be mentally normal, but I can be a healthy me, and those mental difference that remain in me, those aren't BPD. I don't fit the diagnostic criteria for BPD, and I've no reason to think I will in the future, therefore, it does not make sense to call those differences BPD.

It occurs to me, bipolar is a good example of something familiar to most people which is managed, rather than recovered from.

On the other hand, situational depression would be something one can recover from, not just managed.

And, noticing I happened to pick two examples that include depression, that opens up the idea that what looks like one thing (depression being an example) may have different roots, and thus differ in how much one can recover versus manage.

Personally, I think I've recovered from about 90% of my BPD-related problems, but I have to manage that last 10%. It was the relentless practice of my new skills that brought it there.

My t maintains that BPD is generally not considered entirely resolvable, but that it can get to the point were it does not cause day-to-day distress. Not sure I entirely agree but I find myself in that position nonetheless.

Auspicious,
What is your view on the "state" of your wife's BPD? Is she managing it? Is she working toward recovery? What do you think would have happened to her if you had left for good (you say "we are back together now")? Do you think that would have made it harder for her to "bounce back" after her "very bad episode?"

Hmm ... managing it? Better than she used to be, not as well as she could (in my opinion).

It's complicated ... her longstanding diagnosis is bipolar. But after she left, I finally did reading I should have done years ago, and BPD rang bells all over the place for me. Then, twice during two different hospitalizations, she was diagnosed with BPD.

Her regular psychiatrist still has her diagnosed with bipolar. But the therapist she worked with for awhile used DBT materials and talked about "BPD traits".

She has more awareness of her issues than she used to.



Though she started in therapy (for the first time ever, at least during our marriage) after those hospitalizations, she dropped out of it when she started a job. I don't think that was wise, but it's not my place to try to control her treatment.

She's still on meds. She still sees her psychiatrist. She basically used her job as therapy (and it "worked" surprisingly well, at least in the short term) but is on leave now for non-psychiatric medical issues.



I really don't know ... she left me, after all. Left, attempted suicide, went through the hospitalizations (and stayed away in between), then wanted to come home.

Her problems were not caused by me, and could not be fixed by me. Nor could they be (nor were they) fixed by leaving me, though she had thought they could be. Her thinking patterns are inside of her, not outside of her.



I just don't know ... I suppose I modeled and provided some external stability. On the other hand, before all this happened I also enabled her and surely helped her stay more unaware and sick.

Hi Jim!!! Good to hear from you again! How have you been? You are definitely one of the folks on this board who I consider more "recovered." I find it interesting, though, that you say there is still 10% that you have to manage. So maybe it is a little of both - some stuff you completely get over and replace with other behaviors and some stuff is so ingrained that it just sticks around and you constantly have to work at it.
I wonder - do you credit any external factors with your success? Or was it purely you, yourself working on the tools? Is there anything that made it easier for you or that keeps you sort of grounded? Your kids perhaps? If I recall, you are not married anymore, correct?
- NAM

Auspicious -
Wow, thank you so much for opening up to me. I know that this stuff is deeply personal and difficult and I appreciate your honesty.
I hear you saying that no matter what you did or how you behaved, your wife's problems were her problems and nothing you could do could change that. I wonder though if you are not giving yourself enough credit. Perhaps with her suicide attempts and "staying away" between hospitalizations, she was testing her boundaries with you? Testing you to see if you would really stick around? And you were so open-minded and understanding that you stuck around and tried to rough it out through the hard times because you do understand the nature of her illness and you wanted to prove that someone could "pass the test" of having a relationship with a borderline. I have put two and two together and figured out that you are also involved with a board for "nons." And I like that the "non" board has advice for understanding and living with borderlines. And I think you are doing a fantastic job. But why won't you give yourself any credit for your wife's ultimate decision to "stick around?" Does it have anything to do with this:
I think somewhere on the other board or perhaps on this one, you mention "co-dependency." Do you name your "co-dependency" on your wife as the reason for sticking it out through all the difficult times with her? Because I don't think you should feel that way. I think you should be proud of yourself because you made the effort to truly understand her and her illness and you truly "passed the test" in her eyes - you didn't leave when she pushed you to the edge, you were not overwhelmed when she tested the boundaries, instead you provided her with security. And I really think that it was that security - your refusal to "abandon" her - that helped her find her way home.

I worked my skills pretty intensely for a long time. Also, the farther away I was from my crazymaking marriage, the better. I couldn't have had success without both, I think.

Absolutely right.



The only think I think I have done that helps is to learn how to stop making things worse.

Instead of trying to argue her feelings away, I've learned more often to listen to feelings and maintain my boundaries. That's prevented a lot of conflict.



Could be ... there seemed to be a whole simmering cauldron of motives.

Mostly I think she felt bad in general, affixed blame to me, and thought that if she left me things would get better for her. I don't mean she did that out of malice, but that she really couldn't see the role her own illness was playing, so blame had to be fixed outward ... she felt bad, therefore, someone must be making her feel bad.

For my part, I was burning out ... I just couldn't take the behaviors, the blaming anymore. I didn't understand them, or have a clue how to handle things. I was getting irritable, withdrawing. So we both played a role.



No! I wished the "test" didn't exist ... I just wanted things to be normal. I love my wife, and didn't want to end things after so many years together. Nor did I think things would be better for our children with us being apart. And I didn't think they'd be better for her, either. Not made better for her by leaving, anyway (I do believe if she had stuck with therapy she could have got better while away, though).

Nobody could have "passed the test" because her pit of need wasn't rational, and therefore it was bottomless. Nobody could be the savior she was looking for (nobody mortal, anyway). I had spent over a decade trying to be, and that was part of the problem, not the solution.



I'm not trying to be argumentative ... but I still have to dispute all this

Codependency was first recognized, I believe, in the spouses of alcoholics. For example, a wife calls her husbands employer and tells them he has the flu, when in fact he's passed out drunk, or too hung over to come in. She's always trying to cover for him, fix his problems, fix him, but she's actually helping him stay sick. And she gets exhausted and sick too, in the process.

Codependency also happens in partners of people struggling with mental illness. It happened to me. And it didn't help us - it hurt us. I spent years trying to "make her happy", when nothing could, because of her internal issues.

Even after she left, nothing got better between us until I let go of the idea of changing her, saving her, whatever. Once that shift happened, things started to improve!

Wow, thanks, Auspicious... I don't find your post to be argumentative but rather very informative and helpful. Best of luck to you!
NAM

After reading Mobilene's 2nd post, I can't help observing, it can go both ways, being married. Yeah, it can be a stable relationship that's helpful to us in our journey. But it can be the opposite too.

Do you believe that a person's personality is something that always stays the same for life or could it change over time with new experiences and knowledge?

Do behaviours (actions) make a person who they are fundamentally, in your opinion?

I believe you are who you are so for the first question, no personality doesn't really change.

Behaviors/actions do not make a person who they are, no, but they are part of what defines that person in that they are part of the life experience of that person.

Forgive me, I'm a little confused by your reply:

Are you saying that you believe that life experience is part of what makes us who we are?

Can you give me an example of that?

Yes, Harmonium. Meaning what you have done in the past is part of the whole picture of your life. An example? I went to college. That was part of my life experience. I AM a college graduate because of that experience. It is part of who I am.

So, you are saying that going to college changed who you are-- reworked your own self-picture? That you were somehow 'different' after you graduated?

If that's possible, then is it also possible that upon learning something else new or doing something else that you have not done before you could again change your own idea of yourself, maybe also in a good way like going to college does? That it can even become a part of yourself as a whole?

I recently asked my T if I still met the criteria for BPD and she kind of chuckled (this was on the phone and I didn't tell her how bad I felt about her laugh) and said that people don't recover from a personality disorder. That I am improved, but I will always have BPD. So she thinks I am managing it, to put it the terms you used, NAM.

I probably had BPD all of my life, and I have been married for over 30 years. I don't have the "acting out" kind of BPD so I don't know if I would be different if I weren't married. My marriage is stable so maybe that is a factor in my not being worse.

Do shy people ever stop being shy?

Do party people ever settle down?

I personally think that personality can change.

I personally don't know how I feel about 'recovering' from BPD or other personality disorders. I feel that I manage it. Managing to me, means - Implementing the use of tools, reading material, therapy, etc...To aid curbing the impulsive behaviors, mental physical and emotional. Some of those irrational thoughts still exist for me. Some are quiet. Some hardly are ever touched upon anymore - And I don't know if a particular situation, 10 years down the line, could trigger something inside me again. I don't know, I can't predict the future. All I can do is make the best with what I know and have, and I am optimistic that if those sorts of thoughts and feelings were to come up, I'd have the know-how and good sense of self to deal with them in a positive, healthy way.

As far as changing the personality at the very core...I feel some things will just be there. I have always been sarcastic and snarky(though I keep it at bay). I don't mind that part. I amuse myself. There are other parts of me that I like that I don't want to 'get rid of'. Other people may disagree and not like them, but my goal isn't to people please. It's to be happy with myself. It's not like I'm out there intentionally hurting people, and if that happens to occur, I deal with the situation appropriately - But dealing doesn't mean changing who I am. It means (usually) better, more effective communication. I am not going to be a chameleon and adapt to what makes everyone else happy, when that is not me or someone I want to be. If I don't like something, and I don't like how it affects my relationships, I will make every effort to change it. If someone close to me doesn't like one of my behaviors, I will look at it from all sides. It doesn't necessarily mean that I will change it(I possibly could, if I see it as really hindering my life and relationships), but I will put in efforts to compromise and again...Implement more effective communication.

I think there are aspects of our personality that are innate. "Accept the things we cannot change" sort of things. But, there are also aspects of our personality that do change. Most especially, we grow and mature. And that's really relevant to BPD. I know I had a lot of growing up and learning to do, and I think that's common with people with BPD and BPD traits.

My experiences are part of what shapes my personality. As I experience more, including learning and personal growth, who I am changes. There's stuff that stays the same too.

I used to be shy. Now I'm not. One example of something that's changed for me. Yeah, I can still be shy once in a while. But I can also be quite outgoing, which is definitely new. And why I still have a tendency to be socially conservative, those moments of true shyness aren't too common.

I struggle with this whole notion that one can "have" BPD. It's a label used to describe a number of combined behaviors. Those behaviors speak of a certain mental or emotional state.

I also struggle with this notion that one can never be cured. Like a rutted road, we can sink back into old behaviors -- but we can also build a new road, and learn to always drive on it. After a while, the old rutted road starts to be overgrown with weeds and harder to find. I think that's what recovery is all about.

I accept that my t says that "the professional community doesn't consider BPD truly resolvable," but at the same time, if I walked into a different t's office today and said, "Diagnose me," I wouldn't fit the criteria for BPD and would not walk out of his office with that diagnosis.

I agree.

As for being cured, I think talking about being cured of BPD is like talking about being cured of a broken leg. It's the wrong term for what happens when one gets better. Recovery is not quite right either, as implies getting back to someplace one was, rather than to a new healthy place one hasn't been. But at least it doesn't have the idea that someone else can do it to you.