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 Post subject: I need help with this
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:04 pm 
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I've improved so well over the years and so much of the BPD stuff is better. A lot of it still needs more work, and there;s one part that scares me and I can't see improving all that much.

It's the, god I don't even know what to call them. Are they rages? Freak outs? It's not just rage I feel when it happens. I understand the triggers and although avoiding them has reduced how often this happens, dramatically, and also the number of triggers has reduced, in that certain things don' trigger me like they used to, there's this little area that doesn't seem to have changed. It's men and abandonment.

Ok, here it is, all the psychotherapy in the world (which I feel I've had mind you) teaches me where the trigger came from and what the trigger is, but neither of those things stop it from happening. WHEN it happens it's so intense. Am I being weak that I don't seem to be able to control myself when it happens? I admit that there have been times when I've resisted all kinds of crazy behaviour.

What really is bugging me is that it's not going away. It's happened maybe 3 times in the last year, so not too often, but causes so much residual damage when it does happen. Whether it's bc I contacted someone during the whole freak out, or even if I don't it takes me, well, I'm not really sure how long, between days and weeks to get past the shame of it having happened.

What I'm asking for here are responses from people who both relate to these experiences and who have overcome them (ie: haven't had them for maybe 2+years).

If it helps to identify what I'm talking about: trigger happens, usually some kind of a build up (avoidable territory is what my rational therapied side is saying to me now), and then WHAM! Over the period of 5 minutes to an hour my feelings become so intense that I am faced with a very very difficult situation to control. It's intense anger, shame, fear and it makes me frantic frantic frantic. I'll run around the house, almost like a chicken with it's head cut off, with 100 thoughts a second of just, well, it's kind of like panic. It's so difficult to describe the feelings bc they only seem to happen when this happens. Abandonment is all I can say, which isn't a feeling but results in a web of them. The shame is intense. It's the time I feel like hurting myself the most. During these periods is the ONLY time I've ever self-injured.


Man, these things freak me out and make me feel like I'm permanently crazy. It freaks me out bc it can be for so long that things are relatively fine, sometimes even quite good, and then BANG! I go from behaving like a relatively normal person to a complete psycho.

The synapses in this realm appear to be fused and oh how that scares me. I also realise that it inhibits my ability to have a long term romantic relationship, which is part of my yardstick of recovery. So while I'm doing this, returning to complete BPD moments, I still consider myself quite ill.

One other thing that happens (this is a different phenomenon though) is that there are times, with little triggers, when my mood can drop in an instant. Like I'm standing on a cliff admiring the view and everything is peachy, then it's like I've just fallen off the cliff and my mood is so dark that I want to escape the situation. I go from normal, to depression and complete absence of self belief in a instant. These don't lead to the freak outs I've described, and I seem to be able to mnage them reasonably well, but I wondered if this quick change in my feelings to something intense and shamed could be connected in terms of fixing it.

So, those who have overcome this, especially if anyone's had this experience for over 20 years like myself, can you please give me some advice? I'm feeling quite desperate now, and all the gentle stuff, the self soothing the everyday care stuff, well, I'm not sure if I've been consistent enough to know, but this doesn't seem to have changed much after all the other changes.

Thank you in advance and thank you to those who have read.

S

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Sarah -
Are you talking about panic attacks? Could that be what they are?
I don't think these overwhelming feelings ever leave us. I think we just have to learn how to deal with them and not act out on them (self harm or otherwise). If you are having panic attacks, sometimes something as simple as changing your diet can help... cut out caffeine and sugar, eat enough protein, try some herbal teas. Maybe get out for a walk instead of "running frantically" around the house.
Sorry that I can't offer much more advice but I think I know how you feel...
Hugs,
Chai


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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:00 pm 
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No, they aren't panic attacks. They're a BPD thing. Perhaps raging is the best word for it though I don't think it sounds quite right. Thanks all the same Chai.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:04 pm 
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:( Hope someone can help you.... sounds frustrating.


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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:30 pm 
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Sarah wrote:
It's men and abandonment.

If it helps to identify what I'm talking about: trigger happens, usually some kind of a build up (avoidable territory is what my rational therapied side is saying to me now), and then WHAM! Over the period of 5 minutes to an hour my feelings become so intense that I am faced with a very very difficult situation to control. It's intense anger, shame, fear and it makes me frantic frantic frantic. I'll run around the house, almost like a chicken with it's head cut off, with 100 thoughts a second of just, well, it's kind of like panic. It's so difficult to describe the feelings bc they only seem to happen when this happens. Abandonment is all I can say, which isn't a feeling but results in a web of them. The shame is intense. It's the time I feel like hurting myself the most. During these periods is the ONLY time I've ever self-injured.


Hi Sarah,

I can relate to this, though not entirely the same way of course. I call them my 'freak-outs'. I haven't had them for about 5 years now, but when I did it was usually during a rejection or a perceived abandonment by a male(boyfriend or interest), but did not start happening until I began digging very deeply into the past in therapy. My mother used that exact phrase, running around like a chicken with my head cut off. I could describe them as this - I felt like I was on fire, emotionally. Like I needed to douse myself, metaphorically speaking, to put it out. I would literally run around the house frantically yanking at my hair, mindlessly bumping into walls, crying and screaming. I also self-harmed during that time and that time only. Additionally, I found myself going through an odd regressing thing. I would talk to myself as though I was a small child. It all felt very surreal and creepy to me at the time.

Looking at it now, I understand why it came to surface in that manner. We were touching on things in therapy that I was incredibly uncomfortable talking about, and the rejections and perceived abandonment I felt were throwing me back into past feelings even moreso than they ever had - Simply because they weren't just lurking under the surface anymore(where they could be ignored), they were out there smacking me in the face. It took me a long time to make that connection.

They increased and then very slowly subsided as I worked through those problems in therapy and alone. I also did a LOT of yoga, meditation and relaxation exercises when I felt that way, though it was incredibly hard to get through to my own self to even do those things, I felt untouchable and completely out of control. I made a note for myself to read when that happened, that helped bring me back to earth so I could do my exercises. Affirmations, self-soothing talk, lots of reminders that I'm still HERE(as I said it felt surreal). Getting to the note was the hard part so I put it on my bathroom mirror - When I freak out or panic, my first soothing activity is usually to splash my face with cool water. The note helped me remember that I am not crazy or insane, because the proof that I am not was right in front of my face(my own healthy affirmations and positive talk, in my own writing).

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:49 am 
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Thank you for your response Miyasa. The yoga, meditation, affirmations, well, it must be synchronicity bc these themes have been coming up for me a bit recently. My concern is that your experiences sound a little bit more like dissociation, that whole"real" thing I don't relate to (I've never dissociated), which would make sense that it happened as you were working on past issues in therapy. I've been having my version of freakouts since I was about 18 I think, and it only happens with men and abandonment. Perhaps I won't find anybody who has the same experience as me (although I just doubt it).

I have no doubt that meditation, yoga etc, are great and helpful things and I have booked myself into a meditation course thingy already, before I posted....but I still somehow find your post disillusioning for me. I'm being negative, yes, but what happened the other night is not a panic attack, not dissociation, I'm completely "with it" so to speak, and don't mindlessly run into walls and rarely scream (unless I'm in my car which is better soundproofed than my house).

But, on a more positive note, I think affirmations could help. Maybe even trying to do some yoga.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:46 am 
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Hi Sarah,

It may have been disassociation, yes. I've never met anyone who experienced the very thing and I used that to isolate my experiences and just label it as craziness.

But...we all react differently under stressors(one of your intense ones being men and abandonment). When you describe it as a build-up suggests that these things are looming and lurking under the surface, just waiting. When it becomes too much your mind goes into overdrive, and this perhaps a reaction to that stress? A reaction is only a reaction. It needn't be indicative of anything more, even if it's unlike anything you've ever experienced in other areas of your life. Just tossing some thoughts out there. I know your trigger is an important issue for you, it would make sense to me that it would cause the most confusing, intense feelings(it also is and does for me).

Meditation is a great tool when you can quiet your mind down to really reap the benefits, I'm glad you booked yourself a course thingie! Best thing that worked for me was to just do something, whether it worked or not didn't matter, the action alone felt good. And there's always 1000 other things waiting in the wings for you to have a go at.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:38 pm 
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I totally relate, and I really respect you putting this out there.

I know the freak outs, the partner/abandonment, the wacky behavior then shame later. I'd say it's probably happened like, 10 times in the last 8 years for me. That's not too bad considering scary 17 year old KT, ha ha. That was 8 times a day! Now, when I feel that hot prickly, electric feeling, I know it's time for me to check myself.

Ultimately, I got tired of how it interfered with my ability to have relationships with people. I have a lot more conversations with myself about what I am choosing to do with my feelings and what kind of impact it is going to have on the things that I value. When I have relapsed, it is almost always a partner/abandonment. I have never chose to take a minute before responding and regretted it. It's really hard to not do things sometimes, but the outcome makes me feel so much better about myself.

I hope you get lots of helpful responses!

KT

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:22 pm 
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Oh thanks guys!

Miyassa I do appreciate your responses and suggestions. They have been helpful and reasserted to me that I really do need to refine my calming skills, which yoga and meditation is all about.

As for the build up thing, well, I think this build up is something I CAN identify, and it's all a warning sign. I am capable of enormous denial about where I'm at when codependence comes into the equation, and I think acknowledging that as a terminal issue for me is important.

KT it is really quite nice to hear I'm not alone in this. 8 times a day sounds so completely overwhelming, I really feel for you! This struck me as good point:

Quote:
I have never chose to take a minute before responding and regretted it.


I relate to that. Thank you for a good reminder.

____________

I spoke to my T about it this morning, about all the other stressors contributing to it. I need to change a few things, one step at a time. When it comes to the freakouts, he pointed out that abandonment is something I've been dealing with since birth (adoption) so it may very well seem that the old synapses are fused. I have myself a challenge there. Most of what we discussed is how to avoid this situation occurring. There will be some perceived or even real abandonments I cannot avoid, like death or break ups. But mainly the pattern is that I sit in denial whilst an unhealthy codependent situation is building up pressure. It's that old codependent Nazi.

I decided in December that I must cease all dependent behaviour which for me takes the form of smoking cigarettes, excessive drinking, a pot addiction that I cannot deny is an addiction anymore, codependent friendships, codep family relationships and codependent 'relationships' with men. I've ended 2 friendships, enforced some serious boundaries with my mother, kept distance from my biological mother, told a couple of blokes who were bad news to piss off, quit smoking, quit pot, and haven't been over a 0.05 alcohol reading, all since the beginning of the year. It's Summer here so there've been a lot of temptations to drink - sun, beach beer! I've tried so hard to be positive and treat myself kindly, as a substitute for these dependent behaviours. I'm journaling every day yet what I haven't done enough of I think is exercise, swim, meditate and yoga. I've also identified that my boss is a crazy-maker of gargantuan proportions and so have decided to make moves towards leaving that job. Unfortunately, that'll take a while. So yep, good things are going on, but I do have an incredible amount on my plate and it's very confronting. I've been spending more time alone than ever, more healthy time than usual, and, man, it's confronting. So I should go easy on myself about my freak out.

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Any other suggestions are most welcome!

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:38 pm 
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That is a lot of changes all at once. Sounds like you are handeling the majority of them very well. Could the stress of those add too the freak outs? Makes them worse? I know that when I'm challenged in one area, it affects the others and the first thing to go for me is my biggest issue. Example: My hardest thing to kick is impulsiveness. If I'm stressed at work and fighting with Mom, its much easier to fall into over spending, over eating, etc.

So basically, I'm agreeing with you. Cut yourself some slack because you may have a bit of a hair 'trigger' right now, do the meditation and other activities you mentioned, and remember to take that minute to respond instead of react.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:35 am 
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Is there any PMS link to your freakouts?

I haven't conquered mine yet but I noticed they often happened at the same time each month, and they've become much less common now my PMS is under control. The things that have helped me with that are:
  • taking vitamin B6 and calcium/magnesium supplements
  • coming off my contraceptive pill (though some people find that going on the pill helps)

This might not be relevant to you but I thought I'd mention it just in case. :)

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Sarah,

I completely relate to what you are saying. For me, I used to be able to feel them about a second before it would happen. It was like a red rage would start at my feet and travel up my body and then explode in my mind. My head would race for hours and the emotional pain was intense.

Luckily, I don't get those very often anymore. What helped for me was becoming aware of the triggers. I would color label them - yellow, red and black flags. In the beginning they were always black or red, but as I became better at identifying the triggers, I could catch them in the yellow stages. When I did catch them in the yellow stages and applied skills, I eventually stopped having the freakouts. Both breathing exercises and the five steps helped.

Hope that helps some.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help with this
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:48 pm 
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I can relate. Oh boy, can I ever relate.

I took a behavioral approach to dealing with mine. As soon as they started, when things would start to overwhelm me & I would start to freak out, I knew I was in absolutely no place to deal with anything rationally. I couldn't identify triggers, work the steps, determine possible solutions, etc. So rather than try the impossible (being rational), I opted for simply minimizing the damage by not doing anything at all. It was much better if I just sat there & fumed, with my racing thoughts, than if I actually acted on it with screaming, crying, hitting stuff, insulting & hurting those around me. Just riding it out until I made it thru to the other side where rationality was even possible helped in a number of ways. I learned that I could make it through to the other side of the frak out. I learned the value & benefit of choosing the option of "taking NO action." I learned the value of making decisions when I had the capacity to be rational rather than in the heat of the moment.

After a while, it became easier to default to Do Nothing mode and the freak outs became shorter in duration with less intensity, to the point that I can't remember when I had my last one.

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