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 Post subject: What is mean?
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 12:11 am 
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I've realised lately that there is a mean streak in me. My own mother can't refute it. She simply says "You have a good heart". True, but not good enough. While I've been busy hating the people who've hurt me, I've somehow become that very person.

I've looked for some definitions of mean, but they mainly describe spitefulness, malevolence, etc. I want a definition which covers the cause from the inside out, not the experiences of an outsider. Why would somebody behave spitefully, or be nasty, and so on. Why do some situations or people make me angry, and others cause me pain? What is the difference between hurt and anger? For me there's often an overlap.

I used to be introverted, letting the pain and rage run deep inside, until I was treated so badly for so long that it became unbearable and I lashed out full-time, never letting the pain hit me too hard.

Obviously everyone's experiences of these emotions won't be the same, and I'm not looking for any kind of definitive explanation, but if anyone would like to voice their opinions I'd be really interested to hear them.


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 Post subject: Re: What is mean?
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:05 am 
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tigerlily wrote:
Why would somebody behave spitefully, or be nasty, and so on. Why do some situations or people make me angry, and others cause me pain? What is the difference between hurt and anger? For me there's often an overlap.

I used to be introverted, letting the pain and rage run deep inside, until I was treated so badly for so long that it became unbearable and I lashed out full-time, never letting the pain hit me too hard.


I'm not sure I understand exactly, but I think that people are mean to others because they are trying to protect themselves. When I am mean to people it is because I am trying to push them away from me so they can't ever hurt me. Kind of hurt them before they can hurt me.

Also, there might be a little bit of the "misery loves company" idea. People who are feeling down and sorry for themselves tend to gravitate towards others who feel the same and then they can all wallow in their sorrows together. Maybe being mean is a way of transferring some of your pain to others? If you feel so horrible, they should feel some pain also.

I truly believe that there are no inherently mean people. I do believe that we as humans can do mean things to others, but that once we are healthy in ourselves and secure we don't need to act in that way.


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 Post subject: Re: What is mean?
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:45 am 
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I agree with sapere_aude, but would like to add a quote from this site
Quote:
We all feel hurt or irritated when someone or something obstructs our needs or desires. Anger, though, in its technical sense refers to the desire to “get even with”—that is, to take revenge on—the cause of the hurt.

For example, when another car suddenly cuts in front of your car on the road, adrenaline pumps into your bloodstream. Your heart rate jumps. Your blood pressure surges. These things, however, are just immediate fight-or-flight physiological responses to a perceived threat.

But then, as a psychological reaction to these immediate physical responses, indignation and animosity toward the other driver overrun your mind. You honk your horn. You give a dirty look. You scream a curse. And there you have it: anger. Anger, therefore, is the wish for harm or bad or evil to come upon someone or something that—in your eyes—has injured or obstructed you.

So the psychological process is clear and simple. If a person hurts you, then, in your anger, you want to hurt him back, just as you have been hurt.

This is very true for me-- anger is a way of 'dealing' with hurt.
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I used to be introverted, letting the pain and rage run deep inside, until I was treated so badly for so long that it became unbearable and I lashed out full-time, never letting the pain hit me too hard.

I'm no therapist, but it sounds (familiarly) like you have been hurt many times in your life and eventually all that pain was too much to bear, so in order to cope you developed anger issues. Many of us do this. For me, a way to resolve my anger (or apathy in my case) issues, was to get back in touch with that pain/hurt and find a more effective coping mechanism.

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 Post subject: Re: What is mean?
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:12 am 
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tigerlily wrote:
I've looked for some definitions of mean, but they mainly describe spitefulness, malevolence, etc. I want a definition which covers the cause from the inside out, not the experiences of an outsider. Why would somebody behave spitefully, or be nasty, and so on. Why do some situations or people make me angry, and others cause me pain? What is the difference between hurt and anger? For me there's often an overlap.


I think "mean" is of those words which, it describes someone from the outside.

"Mean" isn't something a person is, but something someone sees someone else as being. If I call someone mean, that word mean, it's about, not their nature, but my experience of them.

And I think that's why definitions of "mean" don't cover what it is from the inside. Because it's not the right word to use for what's going on inside.

That's a sidenote to what you are really asking, I know. But maybe you'll find something meaningful in it. I wonder if looking at synomyms instead of definitions would help with whatever you were trying to get at in looking for definitions of mean. Or maybe you don't need that anymore.

As far as hurt and angry, I agree that there's an overlap. They are two sides of the same coin, I think. Anger helps us to act in response to our hurt. Anger can be a good thing. It motivates us to do something. The trick is properly directing it. As well as tempering it with some logical thought about the situation.

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 Post subject: Re: What is mean?
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 12:12 pm 
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Have you read the Separation of Stuff section of the website yet, Tigerlily? In my experience, the answer to "Why would somebody behave spitefully, or be nasty, and so on" is usually due to an inability to separate stuff between people. There's actually (IMO, anyway) a great exploration of this very phenomenon in the book, excerpted here:

Quote:
Quote:
Example #1 – Borderline Perception:

Amy: “That’s a really interesting sweater. Where’d you get it?”

Borderline perception: Wow. ‘Interesting.’ She said ‘interesting.’ That must mean she couldn’t think of anything nice to say about it. I must look like a complete dork or something. That was pretty rude of her. I mean, couldn’t she say something at least nice, commented on the color or the weave? What a little snot!

Borderline reaction: “Like you really want to know! Get lost.”

The perception is what shaped the response. The perception was skewed and based on a wide variety of assumptions – that “interesting” wasn’t meant as a compliment, that Amy was being rude, that the Borderline’s appearance was sub-standard.


The same comment from Amy with an altered perception results in a very different response.

Quote:
Example #1 – Altered Perception:

Amy: “That’s a really interesting sweater. Where did you get it?”

Healthy perception: Amy finds the sweater interesting and wants to know where I got it. I wonder why she wants to know – maybe she wants to get a similar one or maybe she thinks it’s downright hideous.

Healthy response: “It is rather interesting, isn’t it? I got it at ABC Clothing Store. Why do you ask?”

In this example, nothing is assumed and Amy’s comments were taken at face value. While there was some confusion about the word “interesting” rather than making a negative assumption about the word, neutral clarification was sought.


It’s a whole lot easier to jump to the conclusion of negativity and that’s probably all you’ve known for most of your life. It’s a very difficult habit to break, however, it is possible as part of recovery. Later in this guide, we’ll focus on practical ways to get from the Borderline Perception to the Altered Perception.


So in my experience and observation, the reason we behave spitefully or mean to other people is a way to hurt them back as much as we're feeling hurt - we're trying to mirror to them how they're coming across, to elicit from them the same feelings we're feeling at their hands.

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 Post subject: Re: What is mean?
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Have you read the Separation of Stuff section of the website yet, Tigerlily? In my experience, the answer to "Why would somebody behave spitefully, or be nasty, and so on" is usually due to an inability to separate stuff between people.


I've been reading the tools and all the posts, over and over, for days. Some of it is beginning to make sense.

Quote:
So in my experience and observation, the reason we behave spitefully or mean to other people is a way to hurt them back as much as we're feeling hurt - we're trying to mirror to them how they're coming across, to elicit from them the same feelings we're feeling at their hands.


This might be one of the most intelligent observations I've ever come across. I won't apply it to the behavior of my Narcissist father, however.

EllenKMR wrote:
Anger can be a good thing. It motivates us to do something. The trick is properly directing it. As well as tempering it with some logical thought about the situation.


Now that would be quite the feat.

Quote:
I think that's why definitions of "mean" don't cover what it is from the inside. Because it's not the right word to use for what's going on inside.


No, it's not. I haven't experienced myself as mean, only hurting and angry. I guess "mean" has been the external by-product of those feelings.

Harmonium wrote:
We all feel hurt or irritated when someone or something obstructs our needs or desires. Anger, though, in its technical sense refers to the desire to “get even with”—that is, to take revenge on—the cause of the hurt.


I'll have a look at this site after I finish writing this reply, because I'm not sure if I'm correct in my assumption that this site is saying the the feeling under anger is hurt/irritated.
A lady on You Tube (I've forgotten her name) on the site "E how" says that the feelings underneath anger are: disappointment, dissatisfaction, not feeling good enough, and not feeling deserving.

sapere_aude wrote:
When I am mean to people it is because I am trying to push them away from me so they can't ever hurt me. Kind of hurt them before they can hurt me.


t often talks about me doing this.


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 Post subject: Re: What is mean?
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:13 pm 
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More from the site:

For example, when you get angry you don’t really allow yourself to feel your inner vulnerability and hurt. All you can think about in the moment is your desire to get revenge, to defend your pride, to do something—anything—to create the feeling that you have power and importance. In essence, your outbursts of rage paradoxically hide your inner feelings of vulnerability, so you never recognize the hurt you’re feeling that triggers your hostile reaction.


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 Post subject: Re: What is mean?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:58 pm 
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This thread has given me so much insight! I could have written the original post. Thank you everyone!


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