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 Post subject: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:30 pm 
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I want to change something. I want to share what's going on. This is embarrassing. Tired of the embarrassment.

Ok, part of the story is that I'm often very nervous and afraid around my caregivers who have been assisting me due to relapse of a physical illness for the last seven years. I struggle with a lot of shame about how nervous I am around them when I feel very weak and physically ill. I often have the feeling or thought that I could die because I feel so weak. I feel very needy and I am afraid of my own neediness.

I have this idea in my head a lot that if I could be in a better mental/emotional state, that I would suffer less from my physical illness. Well that's definitely true.

I often think it might be possible to hardly suffer at all and that life could be completely tolerable or pleasant. I have experienced that when I feel compassion, that i am not suffering. But as it is most of the time now, I'm suffering painfully. When someone is with me who is very compassionate and I'm able to let that in, then the compassion eases the suffering to where life actually feels sometimes even wonderful, even if my physical abilities don't increase, the suffering isn't there. It is very hard for me to feel this on my own.

I want to feel more compassion, and when I can't, I want to stop feeling dissatisfied with myself when I can't get into that better compassionate place and go ahead and validate myself that I tried my best. As things are now, I most often feel ashamed that I'm still suffering, to the point that I almost feel my illness isn't really that bad at all, since I'm the one that is the cause of my suffering and I could stop the experience of suffering if I wanted to, which I can sometimes do. Alternately, I switch from shame to feeling completely victimized by my suffering.

There's a lot of twisted thoughts around this. One is that this whole cycle is shameful. It may not be productive. And maybe it is shameful. I think it is, in a way. I wanted to get it out there, out from inside of me, into the open, to help stop my shame about experiencing it.

A question I have is, how do you feel sorry for yourself?

Some other twisted thoughts are:

My fear and neediness make me unlovable. I should be rejected because I am too needy and wimpy.

Emotional reasoning. Should thinking. I can think of two people who love me even though I am very needy and feel a lot of fear. These people are counselors, but I can remember that they do not reject me. There are other qualities about me other than my neediness and fear that are more desirable and make me a good person. Fear does not make me bad.

What I do with that fear can make me feel guilty though, which I can see as separate from shame. Like not taking care of myself. Or not getting the nurturing that might make me feel better. When i am afraid of my neediness, I cannot feel nurtured and when i continue to suffer, I feel guilt. I can congratulate myself for the bravery i had today in admitting to my caregiver how I was feeling, and in a more mature way. Taking responsibility for my shame and my neediness. But still wanting her to just sit with me. It did help. I did feel calmer and less suffering. For a while. Then I get very nervous again. Still, I can congratulate myself for the effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:21 pm 
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liz,

it's late by me so I can't really sink my teeth in right now to your post, but I could see from glancing it seemed like you might need a hug?

Hugs

Surreal


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 Post subject: Re: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:37 am 
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Hi Liz,

Good on you for opening up about this shame. That's a fear you seem to be conquering just by writing it here. :-)

Quote:
A question I have is, how do you feel sorry for yourself?


I think there's a difference between feeling sorry for yourself and being compassionate to yourself. I understand that much of your shame comes from the 'knowledge' that you're a victim of yourself, and you are so ashamed that you feel you don't deserve pity or self-pity. Yet you experience the suffering, which of course will bring about self-pity.

Also, as compassion from external sources towards you makes you feel better, I think working on being compassionate to yourself is a really perfect place for you to work on with all of this.

Much of the shame we experience lacks compassion for ourselves and is a hangover from being shamed as a child by not being allowed appropriate avenues for our own needs. Having our needs invalidated and our limitations mocked. Each time you feel shame, why don't you try to take a step back from who is feeling the shame, treat yourself like you were a friend who was telling you about this shame, and imagine what you would say to validate them.

Eg: Looking back into your past and recognising that you were simply ill-equipped as a child to deal with certain situations (bc you were a child) may help you to validate your inner child. This has rendered you with limitations today. Those limitations are real and cannot be overcome by will or shame, but with patience and compassion.

Eg: tell yourself that suffering is painful and try to understand why it's there. That doesn't mean criticising yourself for the not solving the problem, but look at true reasons why you feel pain, to let yourself know that your pain is real and therefore valid. Perhaps just accepting the pain is there for you rather than delving into what the solutions are is a better first step than where your twisted thinking gets you.

I have done a lot of work on understanding my inner child, validating her needs and making a commitment to her to be there for her. It has lead to a lot of healing to my sense of personal shame. I have a painting above my bed with the words on it: "Treating myself like a precious object will make me stronger." Do you treat yourself like a precious object?

It's great that you spoke to your carer about your feelings Does it feel like a weight lifted?


One other thing: have you learned about mindfulness?

_________________
~ Sarah


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 Post subject: Re: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:20 am 
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Sarah wrote:
Much of the shame we experience lacks compassion for ourselves and is a hangover from being shamed as a child by not being allowed appropriate avenues for our own needs. Having our needs invalidated and our limitations mocked. Each time you feel shame, why don't you try to take a step back from who is feeling the shame, treat yourself like you were a friend who was telling you about this shame, and imagine what you would say to validate them.


HI Sarah.

Thanks for responding. I want to respond to more of the things you wrote about, but im just responding to this part right now..

Ok, um...this is hard. It's so hard for me to see myself as a friend. Um, well, maybe I can imagine myself as like C. or J. or someone I have felt compassion for...Um, I could say: Im really sorry you are feeling so ashamed. You are in so much pain, I can see it. Please don't feel ashamed. I would hug my friend. Gawd, that sounds so mushy. I dont know that I would do that. I can be judgemental too, toward my friends if they get stuck in a place too long. That's how I feel alone with myself too, when I try to say something sweet to myself. I feel it's too mushy. Maybe what I wrote above (the mushy stuff) wouldnt be helpful. Hmm... I could also say something a little less mushy, like, um...Ugh! This is so hard! Geesh, I dont know that I have a healthy response to this.

Im thinking this pattern I have is about dependency. And when I think of times ive been compassionate to my friends, I realllly like doing that, but ultimately, I dont konw that ive had a healthy relationship where the compassion really honestly helped them in the long run. Sometimes when i've felt they really need compassion, they would deflect it, too, because they werne't ready for it. I feel ashamed because it seems that when i think of myself or about my friends, this is all about not being able to be your own comforter inside. Which just makes me feel ashamed!

Well I can try some things to say to myself. I'll try the mushy stuff. And if that doenst work, I can try something else a little tougher. Like um, I dont know....just observing the desire for that mushy kind of connection. And observing the suffering.

This is where I get hung up a lot. I want a “mushy” kind of connection with a mommy-type of energy (even just from myself) but it just feels so inappropriate as an adult. I can go there for a little bit, but then I feel worse, like I'm leading msyelf down a dangerous road. Maybe that's an unfounded fear, not sure.

I'm going to try to say some of those mushy things to myself and see how that goes for a bit. If that doensnt work, I'll go back to trying something else.


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 Post subject: Re: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Liz,

I wanted to pop back in again and say that I relate to much of what you are saying here. i too have a disability and have trouble accepting help and feel frustration from pain.

I am very low right now with little energy so I can't write a lot. I just wanted you to know that I am thinking about your thread with interest and i am praying for you.

S


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 Post subject: Re: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Surreal, thank you very much for the empathy and your kindness in offering prayer.

Sarah wrote:

Each time you feel shame, why don't you try to take a step back from who is feeling the shame, treat yourself like you were a friend who was telling you about this shame, and imagine what you would say to validate them.


I've been trying this one. It helped *a bit*. It's still not at all like when someone I feel comfortable with is empathizing with me. It's also very hard to keep a visual image in my head of seeing myself or seeing a friend or seeing myself as a friend. I do have a lot of visual problems. But the visualizing seems to get more difficult when I dont feel compassion. I just cant picture myself as a friend. I kept saying the kind words anyway, but they start to feel awful. Like the opposite of what they are supposed to do. Do others have this problem or the problem with visualizing? I am so frustrated with not being able to feel compassion for myself.

Sarah wrote:
Eg: tell yourself that suffering is painful and try to understand why it's there. That doesn't mean criticising yourself for the not solving the problem, but look at true reasons why you feel pain, to let yourself know that your pain is real and therefore valid. Perhaps just accepting the pain is there for you rather than delving into what the solutions are is a better first step than where your twisted thinking gets you.


Why is the suffering there? I think in many ways it comes down to fear of abandonment. I'm afraid if I'm too needy, it's shameful, very ugly, and I'll be abandoned. Alternately, another thing I get trapped in is fearing that if I have or exhibit capability (physically) that someone won't be there (that someone could just be me) when I don't experience having that physical capability because they/(or I) think I'm capable. I also fear I'll just indict myself mercilessly for not being able to manifest the energy I sometimes do or sometimes can. This is embarrassing. I hate this fricken loop, but it is so totally consuming and real.

Sarah wrote:
I have a painting above my bed with the words on it: "Treating myself like a precious object will make me stronger." Do you treat yourself like a precious object?


Hmm...I like that.

Sarah wrote:
t's great that you spoke to your carer about your feelings Does it feel like a weight lifted?


One other thing: have you learned about mindfulness?


I did feel a weight lifted for a short time, then i felt ashamed again for my neediness. This is a long standing pattern. I think I've made a lot of progress on this actually. It's been slow but I can see that there is progress. I did not bond with the caregivers I had in the beginning of the seven years of having them. I never bonded with a primary care giver and I can see how hard it has been for me to bond with someone when I am needy. But I have learned something about how to bond over the last seven years and now it is to the point I wonder if some of my shame and guilt is real. The guilt anyway. I truly want to bond to myself, to fulfill my own needs and I feel some guilt that may be true guilt now. I feel guilt in my neediness and dependency, and the shame. I want to overcome this and be there for myself!

About mindfulness, I am aware of it. I know that if i could meditate, I would do so much better. I look forward to getting enough of my health back to be able to do that again and I am working very hard at this with diet, prescribed herbs and medications from my doctor, etc. I can't concentrate for meditation right now and it is so frustrating. I still keep trying though. I tried taking dbt, and i think i would love it but I could not benefit from it very much because I could not do so much of the exercises, particularly for self soothing because of my physical constraints right now. I still keep trying what things i can do on my own though.

Sarah, thank you for your support and advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:33 pm 
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Liz94 wrote:
I never bonded with a primary care giver


as many of us here didn't, I should have added.


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 Post subject: Re: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Just stopping in to check on you and drop a hug.

Surreal


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 Post subject: Re: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:09 pm 
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surreal wrote:
Just stopping in to check on you and drop a hug.

Surreal


Thanks Surreal. : )


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 Post subject: Re: Neediness, suffering and shame
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:02 pm 
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I was noticing one thing you mentioned - difficulty concentrating because of meds- Xanax has turned me into 10 second Tom.

...am I posting to a thread...who's is it? What am i talking about? ...


:smile :D :smile :D :D :D :smile :D :D :D :smile :D :D :D :smile


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