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I know that a lot of people feel that the past is the past and you can only move forward and I agree, but I still feel the need to explore WHY I am like this. I think I am hanging onto a lot of anger from my childhood. Also, I get completely ignored my therapists when I mention BPD and then tell them I was not sexually abused. I'm tempted to lie and say I was abused if I ever go to another therapist again just so I can be taken seriously. Why don't more therapists know this is not a mandatory criteria for the disorder? I spent 10 straight years being told on a daily basis what a fat, ugly, worthless piece of shit I am by a large number of peers...how can someone not see how that can affect someone's mental health?

Anyway, here are things that occurred in my childhood that contribute to me having BPD.

1. First, I am probably genetically predisposed to being a sensitive person and being more prone to BPD to deal with problems.

2. Severe peer rejection. From 3rd grade to 12th grade I was verbally abused on a daily basis, mostly by boys at my school. No one ever stood up for me, no teacher or parent ever did anything about it other then the occasionally, "Oh, Tom, stop bothering her." There are a couple of teachers who even joined in on the tormenting of me in their own way. My feelings were constantly invalidated because I was told this was normal, kids will be kids, I should just ignore them or the best one, "If that boy is bothering you it means he likes you". That was NEVER the case.

3. My grandmother, my main caregiver growing up, was/is probably Borderline. She was abused as a child.

4. Both my parents made it clear from as long as I can remember that I was not wanted. My father left when I was 4 (and I was happy he did) and rarely wanted anything to do with me. My mom would practically have to force him to take me every other Saturday. He let his new wife tell me I was fat and I was never allowed to have any relationship with my half brother and sister because of her. I was a second class citizen in that home. My mother went back to work when I was 3 weeks old. As I got older she worked 12 hours a day and would often go out after work with friends. She had a boyfriend who did not like me and was constantly telling me "Children should be seen and not heard." My mother clearly preferred spending time with him over me. I remember one time she come home to find that my grandmother had brought me home because I did not want to sleep at my grandmothers house. I remember hearing my mom crying to her boyfriend because I had ruined her evening by being home instead of being at my grandmothers and out of the way. One time my mom got laid off of work and told me she was going to try and find a job nearby so she would be home a lot earlier. I was so happy. She'd get home 2 hours earlier and we'd have time to even have dinner together. This lasted about 2 months. She then told me she was going to quit and find a job in the city again (adding 2 hours commute time) because she wasn't making enough money. I told her I didn't care, I wanted her to be home with me. I told her we should sell the house and get an apartment (I was around 12 and she had mentioned the house is expensive a lot) so we wouldn't need so much money. She said, "No, I have to get a job in the city. It's the only way I can keep giving you all the nice clothes and things you get and the only way we can keep taking vacations. Plus I hate the job and can't stand it there anymore." To me this said she'd rather buy me stuff and be away from me. From my point of view, everything was perfect when she got home so early and she was going to ruin it so I could have nice vacations and clothes. Towards the end of high school my mom constantly talked about selling the house and getting her own place where there would be no room for me. She told me often that should couldn't wait until I went away to college so she could be by herself (the irony here is she moved in with her aunt and then with her mother...she has never lived alone to this day). She was always saying she can't wait to get rid of me. I felt like the first day of college I was being cast out with no where to go if I needed a safe haven. She always paid my tuition and then my rent, but I was never allowed to be with her.

5. Invalidating environment - all my dreams and wishes were always "impractical". Everything I wanted to go to college for I was told would be stupid because there would be no jobs or the field was too competitive or it would be too hard. I got straight A's for the most part, so I have no idea how else I was supposed to prove I was smart enough to be a vet or an architect. Everything I wanted to do and be was shot down. I had to choose something practical. As a younger child she always forced me to do things I didn't want to do even after expressing my dislike of it (ballet, tap dance, playing the saxophone, etc...). She constantly tried to suppress my artistic abilities because an artist doesn't make any money and she did not want me to have to live with her for the rest of her life. Again, she couldn't wait to get rid of me.

I'm sorry to know that you went through a lot in your past.

I think a part of moving on involves understanding why we are like that now, and that involves probing into the past (which you just did), and understanding how we came to be what we are now.

But I also know from my own personal experience that dwelling on the past doesn't help. Instead, shift your focus to changing the way you react to things, identifying what triggers you and so on.

I hope you'll find a suitable therapist soon

HEY THERE!

I think you know why you feel the way you do from what you write here. You can relate to people who feel/are PWBPD.

SHAZZZAMMMM! That's a great start cuz you know what to work on! No matter who the therapist is- you (we all) are the one's who ultimately do the heavy lifting anyway!

Why does it matter what the label is if YOU know what's up? Why argue with someone over a diagnostic label when pointing out the symptoms and behaviors you are aware of and other people might tell you are not helping you, and work on it from that angle? :-)

I know a good therapist who gets it is important, just trying to point out how much power you have in the situation, regardless of external factors...

Surreal

I need a good therapist who is experienced with BPD because I manipulate my therapists which makes the therapy useless. It's not something I always do consciously, but looking back I see that I do it. I've even warned therapists about it from the beginning which resulted in the therapist either never trusting anything I say and challenging EVERYTHING I say (right down to how much I weigh...she thought I was lying) or the therapist just ignored me and let me manipulate her.

I say this with cheek and true caring-

...soooooo instead of changing the behavior you know is wrong and doing things differently out of your own heart, you shop for therapists who will "make you" stop the behavior by engaging you on it? -

orrrrrr ....it's the therapists fault you do what you do? Or is it their responsibility to make you stop?..

....if the therapist wasn't so "naive" they wouldn't allow you to manipulate them and then you would stop?

...If the therapist who takes you at your word that you are manipulative calls you out, you can't stop or get anything productive done in therapy because you are being asked to be accountable for things you don't think it's necessary to be accountable for...it's their fault you don't stop manipulating or get "better" because the professional calls you on what you say to a degree you don't deem necessary?

I think the person you are manipulating the most and twisting around the most is yourself. I think honesty comes with maturity. I think blame and excuses belong to a part of our pasts when they might have been necessary, but not in today

What do you think about holding yourself responsible for yourself and working it in therapy from that angle - as in stop manipulating (aka deflecting + lying) and getting honest through self control? What about the DBT work sheets that cover this - or the online DBT group- to build up some skills in that area so you don;t have to compensate through "manipulate"?

I think 99% of therapists out there are morons and quacks and that one-on-one therapy is just a placebo and I think you don't understand that I don't manipulate on purpose. It just happens and when I reflect on a situation or conversation I see it sometimes, but during the moment I don't know that I'm manipulating anyone. I need a therapist that can recognize it and call me out on it WHEN I'M DOING IT. Not over stupid shit like how much I weigh.

I really am trying to help you out. I think part of what you might encounter is your deflecting from the real issue which is your inner world, because you did it in your response to me and I am going to show you where. I think maybe looking at the 10 forms of twisted thinking might help and doing the 5 steps about this problem might help...

I don't think pwbpd succeed in talk therapy as a first line any more than the research has born out that they don't. So I do hear ya'. I also hear that you "get this" and know you need something more appropriate. It's clear from the way you are posting that you could benefit from some more skills and tools in your tool belt before you try to get into talk therapy with someone who doesn't follow the model of someone like Frank Yoemans.

I can understand why you want to go to DBT. Totally. There is a 2 year waiting list and you are unwilling to move...are you willing to go to an inpatient program so you wouldn't have to move, but could do residential? Silver Hill hospital takes insurance.

What are you willing to do?

It might help to have it in writing where I see you going awry and where you have a chance to help yourself by getting honest.

Argumentative and Devaluing others, crazy making



Your attitude going in is already that you are dealing with a moron and that therapy won't work beyond a placebo effect. All about your stuff. How can anyone help you with this underlying attitude or belief?

Not owning your stuff



Yup, I do understand this is the way you feel about it. I also understand that you have not yet taken responsibility for yourself because nothing we do "just happens". There is something you are not seeing about yourself yet that is driving all of this.

Willfulness



Not taking responsibility. No one is a mind reader. If you don't stay with one person long enough who can get to know you, it won't happen. Manipulators are nothing more than very highly skilled liars who weave complex and drawn out stories, rather than "acute lies" and can fool just about anyone. How can a stranger be expected to know when you are lying?- is that part of the draw of switching out therapists, one gets to see it and then you bolt saying they are not focusing correctly? (just asking you to think about it, I don't know the answer)

Maybe one helpful thing to do would be to go into therapy and tell the therapist you were seeing all of the manipulations you did to him/her and start from there...ASH recommends learning, I think it's the 5 steps that way, by taking a situation we can reflect on from the past and work through it that way?


Black and white thinking:

How would a therapist, or anyone else know, when you are lying or manipulating without calling out everything they think might be valid, even if you disagree on a particular point? is the answer to chuck another therapist?


All about controlling others and not the self. Overly demanding. Manipulative. Crazy making

You say on the one hand "it just happens, I don't do it on purpose, I don't know when it's happening, I need someone else to tell me when I'm doing it", but you don't allow people to do what you are asking- if you don't know if you are manipulating over (to use your example) your weight, then doesn't it follow that the therapist might be right? Or at least living up to your demand that they be able to recognize when you do manipulate and call you on it? Asking and pointing out is a part of that process you have asked for. Who is a mind reader? Who is the doctor and who is the patient? Who is manipulating control over the process? Who ultimately has to be able to initiate the self inquiry and stop herself?


I don't expect answers to any of these questions, they are there for you to puzzle through if you wish, as a means of helping you see where you might be able to help yourself .

fingers crossed for you to get what you need.

I feel like you are completely out of touch with my reality. You know nothing of my situation. I have a three year old and I'm a single mother. No, I cannot go to an inpatient program. I have no money saved up, so not working for any length of time doesn't make sense either. What's the point of getting treatment if when I get out I'm living in a cardboard box on the street with my kid in foster care? You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to what I am able to do based on my circumstances.

By the way, studies show therapy doesn't work unless the patient thinks it well...like a placebo. I'm not making this stuff up.

The manipulation occurs without me realizing it at the time. That's a fact. I don't know how else to explain it to you. If I have a therapist that that just accepts everything I say without questioning the important stuff (like when I'm painting someone as an evil horrible person all of a sudden...it doesn't help me to hear, "you're right, that was awful what he did to you"). You also have no idea how long I've been with one therapist, so again, you don't know what you're talking about when you imply I haven't been with one long enough.

What it boils down to is I do not believe in one-on-one therapy. Just like all the drugs I've been put on don't work for me, neither does the one-on-one therapy. It may work for you because you BELIEVE it will. I don't, therefore it won't. So, I think everyone needs to stop telling me to get one one one therapy, because that is not what is going to help me.

I am not going to post to you anymore. I don't want to get swept into your crazy making vortex, and I don't see that I am helping you at all, despite honest efforts.

What is it you do want, other than for people to say oh, poor you, you've had such a crappy life?

Yes, you've had a crappy life, most definitely, but so have a bunch of us who are determined to get better and will do what we can to make it happen.

You have insight into the family dynamics that can lead to BPD. Fine. I needed to sort that out for myself as well. But once I had, that was the end of that -- my therapist and I rarely went back to the past, virtually never now, because what's important is what do I need to do to change my thinking and behavior to help me now.

You've decided that therapy won't work. So what do you want anybody to do for you? There is no magic bullet that can solve this, nobody who can do it for you without your hard work. Going over and over and over again about all the bad things that have been done to you in your life isn't going to change anything.

You have a choice: stay in the past, or put that aside and make the determination that your future will be different, and healthier. Nobody can do it for you -- it's all up to you. I know it's not easy, and being a single mother with limited resources is a challenge. But again, no one can fix you but you. Whether you do it alone or with a therapist is up to you, but it has to start with you.

eclectically,
I THINK I understand how you feel. You feel as if people don't understand you, don't understand what you're feeling and where you're getting at.
Hence you become very defensive towards the things surreal said. Coz you feel that you are not being understood.

Am I right?

I think I do what you do too, this defensiveness and all. Learn to cool down, not be on the defensive mode, and you'll see the sense in what surreal's saying