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 Post subject: The kind of thing I do
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:47 am 
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Yesterday I was in a shop, looking at the magazines and deciding which one to buy.
I put one of the magazines back on the rack in the wrong place and the shop assistant, who was annoyed with me, came out from behind the counter, told me not to do that and put the magazine back in the right place.
I felt really ashamed of having put the magazine back wrongly and having been told off.
I apologised twice: once straight away and then another time as I paid for the magazine I ended up buying.
The shop assistant did not acknowledge the apology either time and because I felt so ashamed and because I hadn't been able to resolve the situation by apologising: I ended up slapping myself around the face really hard as soon as I got a way down the road and then crying, which would have been fine, except that a friend was coming down the road in the opposite direction and saw me.
This behaviour happens infrequently but feels so sudden and unstoppable when it does happen. Also I find it so hard to understand why I do this.
I listened to one of AJ Maharis podcasts here http://borderlinepersonality.ca/ajmaharibpdaudio.htm
and the explanation she gives (that self harm is about trying to resolve something that feels similar from the past) makes a lot of sense.
I normally feel like hurting myself when I’ve been rejected (and believe it or not that stupid little incident felt like a rejection!) and I can definitely point to similar feeling rejections from my childhood that still bother me.
As you might know I haven't been formally diagnosed with BPD: I had a flatmate with bpd and recognised a lot of her psychology in myself. I have been going backwards and forwards on whether to seek a formal diagnosis. I am doing ok. I have a job and a partner and friends and this behaviour doesn't impede too much on that. I am scared of the idea of living with the stigma of a positive diagnosis and that makes me want to avoid a proper assessment.
On the other hand it seems so crazy to just go on like this: acting out weird behaviours, unable to stop and not even able to understand why.
By the way: the friend I ran into spent years working in bookshops. When I told him what had caused all the upset he said that customers put books and magazines back on wrong shelves all the time and it isn't that big a deal and yet for me, I felt so totally unacceptable as a person that it was like the sky was falling in.


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 Post subject: Re: The kind of thing I do
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:23 am 
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Ok,

first thing is this: Putting a magazine back int he wrong place BY MISTAKE is not a big deal. The shop assistant could have told you politely. Is there something else you were doing? Or was this person a crank?

You appologized. ONCE. That was enough. The fact that you got no response was ON THE SHOP KEEPER. NOT YOU.

maybe not getting a response caused you to say it again, looking for validation that you were heard - normal - but not the thing to do in real life.

here's why: when we appologize sincerely and are met with silence or continued criticism, that's when our alarms should be going off "this person is not acting according to the rules of humanity!"

the assertive thing to do (and I am not there yet by ANY means) would be to look the person in the eye and calmly, nicely say "excuse me? I just appologized for my mistake. Did you hear me?" (yes) "I see that your manners are not what you asked of mine." and walk away. don;t go back in EVER.

Pwbpd often have difficulty asserting themselves appropriately.

Part 2 is you cumplusively hurting yourself. that's not ok because you do NOT deserve that.

so, again, it's basically, for now, a matter of seeing what is your stuff and what is the shop keeps stuff. Have you gone over the main page here with all the info on this?

The other issue you have is diagnosis. What if instead of going for a diagnosis, you decided you are what you are- a human being with some painful issues that need resolving? screw the label if it derails you from doing the work to heal yourself.

how about going in for DBT, EMDR, CBT and make out a recovery plan that centers around healthy happy living?

Do you think you could get things started going THAT direction, instead of staying miserable because you are afraid of a label?

get well, that's all that matters. You do NOT deserve to live with abuse, and in this case it is self abuse. YOU ARE WORTH EVERYTHING GOD HAS IN HIS PLAN FOR YOU. NOTHING LESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: The kind of thing I do
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:00 pm 
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Hey meangrrl!

I just wanted to say that it's good to see you again! And that i agree with what Surreal wrote. Well except I'd go ahead and go in the store again. I wouldn't let that grumpy employee keep me away from a place I otherwise enjoyed. Oh and just for fun i might be rude back to them. : )

You know I'm thinking that having an official dgx doesn't really make things better or worse. It's really how I feel from day to day that is the painful part, not the dgx. And my focus is on how to feel better, and the sooner the better! If a diagnosis or treatment for that dgx helps you, all the better. You certainly don't have to tell *anyone* about it either. If I want to share about my condition I sometimes say I have "depression" or a "mood disorder". It's your life and you can describe the aspect of your life (such as bpd) however you want. You can characterize it or put it in context in the way that feels best to you.

I think that a better name for this illness would help us a lot. One that is less ugly or blaming of us. In PTSD, the name of the disorder focuses on the cause of the afflicted person which at least gives ppl with PTSD a sense of it not being their fault. What if BPD were renamed: Abandonment Disorder. I kind of like "dyslymbia"- the name Dr. Leland Heller wants to use, which focuses on a malfunctioning part of the brain...

http://www.biologicalunhappiness.com/AskDoc/

or "emotional dysregulation disorder".


You know the illness and diagnosis are controversial and if we started a discussion about it just on this board there would probably be some pretty heated opinions. Some go so far as to say it doesnt even exist. Laura Paxton put out two books, one where she taught people how to recover from bpd after she did it herself, and then several years later another book where she pretty much came to the conclusion that bpd rarely exists because she now feels that what appears as or what develops as bpd is actually a form of other things including sensory processing disorder and aspergers syndrome. I thought I dont have aspergers syndrome, but when i read her book, i related to much of what she wrote. It's an interesting read!

Dr. Hagop Akiskal is a well known mood disorder physician and researcher who came to speak to our depression/bipolar group a few weeks ago and he said he feels bpd is actually an atypical form of bipolar and feels the stigma attached to bpd is unfounded and unfair. He claims to do well treating it.

Well anyway....just wanted to say that I'd try to focus a lot less on some label and get yourself whatever you need to have the happiness and contentment you deserve!!

Hugs : )
Liz


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 Post subject: Re: The kind of thing I do
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:22 am 
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I totally agree with surreal- you are what you are and a dx is not going to change that. If you don't want to have a therapist tell you you have a label, there isn't anything wrong ith that, but even if you go, and a therapist tells you you are bpd, that doesn't change anything, really. You're still you, with as much to offer to the world, and as many different facets and as much personality as ever. You don't suddenly go from functioning human being to victim- not unless you choose to.

It troubles me, actually, my sister was told she was bpd, on top of many other mental illnesses, and I don't doubt that she may be bpd, and she may struggle, but she uses her mental illness as an excuse. She feels that because she is bpd, or bipolar, shecan't ever live a normal life and so she never tries. She just locks herself up in her home for the most part, telling everyone she just can't manage to do most things. It's very sad because I don't feel she is realy working towards living a normal life at all, but sinking further and further into letting labels dictate who she is.

So my point is, bpd official dx or not, it doesn't change anything. If you can seek out some of the methods on this website, or through reading books, and they help you and you are able to handle things, that's awesome! If you ever do feel you need more help though, there's nothing shameful about seeking a professional's help. And as Liz said, you don't have to announce to the world you are going to a psychiatrist or therapist, nor do you have to announce to the world if you are bpd.


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 Post subject: Re: The kind of thing I do
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:17 am 
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Surreal, Liz, Islander;

Thank you so much for replying. I was feeling so down on myself I was genuinely expecting critisism not sympathy. So thank you so so much :):):)

Surreal: I don't think i was doing anything else. I might have been taking a long time to choose and maybe she had begun to suspect i wasn't planning to buy anything. That's about it though. It was genuine absent mindedness. She wasn't a total crank but maybe she'd had a long day. She was a little bit rude.

Obviously she didn't intend for me to feel so humiliated though: that was a really over the top reaction that no one could have predicted. Even I couldn't have predicted it: on a good day i would totally have brushed it off.

Surreal: you have hit the nail on the head about difficulty expressing myself assertively. I really struggle with this.
Part of the problem is that when my emotional reactions are inappropriate: that makes it more difficult to gauge the appropriate level of response. Another problem is that if people treat me badly my main response is to feel shame and then my brain goes into overdrive thinking of reasons why i deserve it. Another part of it is that I'm really, really frightened to be assertive: I just have this irrational sense of impending doom about what might happen as a result. Ridiculous in this situation i know.

Also (as you might have noticed) I've got a tendency to over think things. Thanks for laying out the appropriate response clearly for me: that cuts through some of the crap i was thinking. lol

Thanks also for directing me to the separation of stuff page. Yes, i really do need it!

I think you are all right i really do need to go back to therapy. I have had a couple of abortive attempts and not stuck with it. Another try is probably in order.


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 Post subject: Re: The kind of thing I do
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:47 pm 
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meangrrl wrote:
Surreal, Liz, Islander;

Thank you so much for replying. I was feeling so down on myself I was genuinely expecting critisism not sympathy. So thank you so so much :):):)

She wasn't a total crank but maybe she'd had a long day. She was a little bit rude.
Ok, try this one on for size as an exercise to help you see where you can help yourself by observing yourself. First in your post you say "she was annoyed" - this is defining her internal world, not DESCRIBING her behavior - that would be something like "she appeared annoyed". Then you said she "told you off" - that's a DESCRIPTION of something pretty serious, which implies AGGRESSIVE behavior. then in this post, you make excuses for her BEHAVIOR by saying 'maybe she had a long day". I think it's so great and important NOT to guess what's going on with people to assume they are 'out to get us" and really having empathy for what they may be experiencing, that's HEALTHY. What's unhealthy is what you did here (and what I do ALL the time), finding a reason that it was ok for her to 'tell you off". But also observe that as you go through the story, your vision of her behavior changes from not so bad, to really bad, to, it's not her fault. That would be something you can control with therapy and it will absolutely help you get a handle on what you say you need to get a handle on- over the top reactions.


Obviously she didn't intend for me to feel so humiliated though: that was a really over the top reaction that no one could have predicted. Even I couldn't have predicted it: on a good day i would totally have brushed it off. yup

Surreal: you have hit the nail on the head about difficulty expressing myself assertively. I really struggle with this.
Part of the problem is that when my emotional reactions are inappropriate: that makes it more difficult to gauge the appropriate level of response. Another problem is that if people treat me badly my main response is to feel shame and then my brain goes into overdrive thinking of reasons why i deserve it. Another part of it is that I'm really, really frightened to be assertive: I just have this irrational sense of impending doom about what might happen as a result. Ridiculous in this situation i know. join the club. It ain't just you. I just had a conversation with someone talking about the exhaustion from not being able to assert well all the time, and the exhaustion from having had it beat out of me as a kid.

Also (as you might have noticed) I've got a tendency to over think things. Thanks for laying out the appropriate response clearly for me: that cuts through some of the crap i was thinking. lol you could go back in the store after asserting, that might actually be "better" for some people. The reason I said that was an idea, which is not always plausible, that we don;t give to people who are nasty to us - in this case, your business. But it might be kinda cool to continue to patronize the place and keep asserting...that might be a "better" test for some people. The suggestion was not meant as "running", but as taking a moral stand. the nest way to tell someone we do not approve of behavior that doesn;t change is to stay away -that's where I was going with that.

Thanks also for directing me to the separation of stuff page. Yes, i really do need it!

I think you are all right i really do need to go back to therapy. I have had a couple of abortive attempts and not stuck with it. Another try is probably in order.



Get thee to therapy and treat yourself WELL!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: The kind of thing I do
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:40 am 
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Quote:
First in your post you say "she was annoyed" - this is defining her internal world, not DESCRIBING her behavior - that would be something like "she appeared annoyed". Then you said she "told you off" - that's a DESCRIPTION of something pretty serious, which implies AGGRESSIVE behavior. then in this post, you make excuses for her BEHAVIOR by saying 'maybe she had a long day". I think it's so great and important NOT to guess what's going on with people to assume they are 'out to get us" and really having empathy for what they may be experiencing, that's HEALTHY. What's unhealthy is what you did here (and what I do ALL the time), finding a reason that it was ok for her to 'tell you off". But also observe that as you go through the story, your vision of her behavior changes from not so bad, to really bad, to, it's not her fault. That would be something you can control with therapy and it will absolutely help you get a handle on what you say you need to get a handle on- over the top reactions.


Thanks for this. you are right, my perception of the exchange veers all over the place. I hadn't noticed. The reason for this, as you've probably guessed, is that I have a lot of difficulty in accurately guaging the seriousness of other peoples responses to me.

On a bad day pretty much everything feels like agression. And further more it feels like deserved

(Just as an example: my partner and I recently worked out that I tend to percieve his change of tone when he is talking about something that makes him nervous as a shift to controlled agression)

I think you are right: if i had written out just the behaviour without judging it I would have got a more accurate piture of what went on.


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 Post subject: Re: The kind of thing I do
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:10 pm 
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DBT will help you with this.

You can stop this type of thinking- your relationships and self preservation depend on it!

GO FOR IT!!!!

CHEEEERS FOR YOU!


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