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 Post subject: defending myself
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:40 am 
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why why can i not get past a certain point in needing to defend myself?

argh!

i am much better than i used to be, granted. but i am not to where i should be in knowing im right, and ignoring something. one problem is i dont want to get completely to the point of not saying something. i feel somehow thats wrong....its wrong to be just ignore someone and walk off.

any ideas from anyone who has been there with this issue?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:45 pm 
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thanks, cali-ista...i will remember the fake it till ya make it and keep trying. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:25 pm 
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I think I had this situation with my ex-friend. See, at first I was all righteous about what happened. I wanted an apology from her. I wanted her to validate that she was wrong! I couldn't forgive her because of that.

But time has gone by and I just don't care anymore. Yes, she hurt me. No, I will not allow her to occupy such an important part of my life. But I've gotten past wanting acknowledgment from her that she did a "bad" thing to me. It's just not important any more.

I think I know how you feel Jody. We have that need to either prove that we are right, or just want to make our point. But sometimes people dont' want to see our point. We can't force them to. I also get frustrated and don't know what to do about it. So yeah, you just gotta suck it up and walk away. Forget about it. Sometimes it's all we can do.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:55 pm 
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im still thinking on this subject and why i do it and what i want from it.

i have no problem owning its my choice to open my mouth. i still have the problem with letting something go that someone keeps on and on about. i have so much of a fighter in me....i dont know exactly what to do with it. something about being disrespected and all...

just not sure yet.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:35 pm 
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Jody,

It sounds like you're feeling some strong emotions about this right now. In my own experience it tends to pay to wait until those feelings of needing to defend myself subside. This allows me to be more objective and rational about the whole situation. A bit of time can do a lot. In the meantime you may want to explore the dynamics of your need to defend yourself. I know you've worked a lot on this, but a bit more work won't hurt and I find that it's good to do something.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:00 pm 
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Jody, to me, the word justice comes to mind. Okay, like someone says something to you that you don't believe is right. It's not that you have to prove that you're right, it's more of a justice thing to you. Like deep down you know a wrong was done and you want to correct it. At least that's what it seems like to me. Of course I could be wrong. Like you only want what is fair. Does that make any sense? I know in my head it makes sense, I don't know if it comes across that way on paper.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:49 pm 
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I used to have a REALLY tough time with this. I have a former friend who is talking shit about ME because of something she has accused my SO of (he didn't do anything remotely like what she's accusing him of, so I have no idea).

I've wanted to, for the longest time, issue a "NOW HEAR THIS" e-mail or letter to them. I won't. They're saying some pretty vicious things about both of us. I'm not going to defend myself. All of the things she's saying are half-truths, out-of-context events, or outright lies. And I'm just going to let her say what she pleases.

In this case, at least, I was able to see that my desire to upbraid her for this stuff is a desire to control the situation. I don't want her to say that crap about me. I don't want her to lie about things I did or said. But defending myself? Will have absolutely zero impact. She will say what she wants to. I've caught her in bald-faced lies and confronted her and she has not changed.

What would the point of trying to set the record straight have? The people who are buying her crap are generally people I had only casual ties to. The people who aren't- the people whom I have long ties with- understand that she's full of it.

Getting to that place of knowing that the people who matter see through this shit- or will take it up with ME before they get upset- really helped me curb the need to defend myself against verbal attacks.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:51 pm 
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There's a payoff for everything we do. What's your payoff for continuing to fight, for sticking it out, for not walking away?

Do you get to burn off some frustrations? Do you get to misplace some anger?

(I find that I'm more inclined to dig my heels in and fight to the bitter end on an issue with a person who is of little consequence to my regular daily life because it's more safe. So what if I make an ass out of myself with this person? I don't live with them. So what if I go a little whacko on this issue? It's not like it will negatively impact my relationship with my spouse / kids / dogs. I can let loose here because I really can't afford to let loose where I'd really like to let loose: at the source of the frustrations, anger and resentment. This is a much easier and safer target for me.)

Is there some sort of "hey, I can be cool like this other person who's always fighting too - he seems to benefit from it so I should be able to benefit as well" going on?

Could it be that you've only ever known how to fight, that you've never learned and never had it modeled to you as to how a person can walk away? (Without being dismissive, invalidating, etc.)

When you say:
jodyisme wrote:
i still have the problem with letting something go that someone keeps on and on about. i have so much of a fighter in me....i dont know exactly what to do with it. something about being disrespected and all...

It strikes me that maybe you have a vision of "disrespect" that might be a bit on the borderline side still.

You're saying that you're willing to fight with someone who says "Jody is a purple martian" because you're finding it disrespectful of that person to call you a purple martian.

Them saying "you're a purple martian" doesn't MAKE you into a purple martian but the borderline piece is not recognizing the boundaries between yourself and that person.

If that person says it, by god, it must be true and you're going to fight to the death to make sure it's NOT true, come hell or high water!

How dare they call you a purple martian! That's not right, you know it's not right and dadgummit, you're going to MAKE them see that it's not right because everything seen by everyone else has to be seen exactly the way you're seeing it or else the things you're seeing can't be true and the whole world will collapse, oh the horror of it all!

Someone calling you a purple martian isn't a form of disrespect, Jody. It's their perspective. You're trying to fight something you have no control over. Since you have no control over it, the fight is completely ineffective. The harder you fight, the less things change. That must mean it helps to fight more, longer and harder, right? (Wrong, btw.)

I ask in all seriousness: have you read "The Four Agreements"? Not the web page here. The actual book.

I really think it can help you with this.

The book THE FOUR AGREEMENTS wrote:
DON'T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY

Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

The book has so much more than just this piece (above.) It can help you see that your reality is your own. It doesn't matter what other people have created in their realities, in the stories they've written about themselves or about you. So what if they're portraying your character as a purple martian? In your reality, in your story, you're a pink human. And since you live in your story, in your reality, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference what someone else's story or reality says about you.

When you try to fight against someone else when they've written you as a purple martian, you're tilting at windmills and trying to fight city hall. No amount of bitching, petitioning, pleading, cajoling, coercing, screaming, yelling, punching, kicking or anything else is going to make anything change. It is what it is.

I used to get horribly embarassed by the clothes my husband would wear out in public. I was mortified - the mismatches, the bad combinations, the stains, the tears, the ill-fitting outfits - all of it. Then a friend of mine, Donna, said "Oh what's the big deal? I figure most people are looking at the two of you thinking 'Wow, what does that hot chick see in that doofus of a guy?'" It really got me to thinking ... it's not necessarily a reflection of me. People aren't necessarily thinking I dressed him so horribly. They're not pointing and laughing at me; they're laughing at him (if they're even noticing any of it.) It's his outfit, not mine.

It's his outfit and he has to wear it. It's someone else's perception that's horribly embarassing and they have to live with it. NOT YOU.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:52 pm 
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ty for the replies.

sarah, i guess time has something to do with it. this has been going on for weeks now, and i seem to have a limit to how long i can ignore before im just done with it. my time limit is stretching, for sure, and is longer now than it used to be. i cant find the eternal time limit tho. after awhile i just am sick of listening. and ignoring is hard at times. it seems when im surprised is when i have the worst time dealing. when i feel i cant walk away, altho i know i can. when its so obviously wrong info, it just drives me crazy.

i did do that, i ignored. i waited. somehow i just run of time on it....i wait and wait but if it doesnt quit, i just end up feeling enough! ya know? i can do ok with one situation, or 2. or 3. its the 8 or 9th i have trouble with.

BG, justice. you got it. as said in young guns, its a reckoning. enough is enough, and i am way too much like the wyatt earp character kurt russell plays. just so much fighter, altho like him, it takes a lot to set me off.

joshua, ty for sharing. i hope to get to where you are someday :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:22 pm 
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(Just in case we cross-posted, I posted above your most recent one, Jody.)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:20 pm 
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must have crossed cause i did not see your post, Ash. ty for pointing it out.

and yes, i see your points. this is one of my huge issues, of seeing my boundaries as a person are not mixed up with someone elses. i think maybe anyone raised in abuse might have this problem, we have such a skewed idea of things.

plus i have this justice thing. probably goes back to inner child. i have been working on it, and i am better at ignoring until a certain time frame is up. maybe i just need to keep working and the time frame thing will happen slowly.

oh, im not near recovered, how well i know that. its just lately i have opened up enough here to begin to work on deeper things. to be open about them and say this is a issue for me. its negative and unhealthy and i do it--type stuff. to let yall see and me face deeper things about myself.

my pay off. interesting idea. my pay off is to try to right the wrongs from since i was a kid. to show hey this isnt who i am. again, i bet it goes back to the need to be me or die. like half my shit, it goes back into that blank. argh.

you know you gave me a good phrase to use, Ash. "so what?" i like that. if i have some short phrases to use when i need them...i like "so what?" and add on the appropriate info with it. wow, i think this will help.

i am fighting something i have no control over. another thing to remember. your right.

thank you for the post, Ash.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:59 pm 
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Ash wrote:

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Someone calling you a purple martian isn't a form of disrespect, Jody. It's their perspective


I have a question. At what point does a statement go from being someone's opinion to that of disrespect? Maybe I don't understand this concept. How do you know if it's an opinion versus someone being truly disrespectful? Is there a cutoff line? I am not trying to sound stupid - I really am curious because this is a hard concept for me to understand. Thank you!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:11 am 
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Well, it's so true. What I think about jody is a totally different thing than what Ash thinks about jody, or BG thinks about jody. And in the end, it doesn't make a hill-of-beans what I or anyone else thinks about jody. Knowing what BG knows about jody, for instance, would it be possible for anyone to come along and convince BG that jody is a horrible person? More than likely, no. If someone thinks jody is a horrible person, and they tell me so, then I would have to be around jody long enough to make that assessment myself. I have to make my own judgement on jody. No one else can do that for me. And seeing that everyone's perception is different, no two people are going to think the exact same things about jody. So there is bound to be somebody who doesn't particularly like jody, or like me, or like anyone else on this board. And that is ok. You can't please all of the people all of the time. So, I think it takes an acceptance of that, and to know that when people don't agree or don't like you or something you do, it's just a part of life. And they may work that out and gain an understanding of you later, or they may not. But that has nothing to do with you. So why try to convince them of otherwise? Usually it leads nowhere to do so, so really, what is the point?

Are they being what you see as disrespectful? They could be. But perhaps they don't mean to be. Perhaps they don't know any better, or perhaps they are having some difficulties themselves. Or, perhaps they live by a different set of rules than you do, and they don't see it as being disrespectful. But if they are, and most people think they are, then they are only hurting themselves.

I think one must take into account that we are not all on the same page. We all don't think alike, we all don't live by the same rules, and some of us are rough around the edges. And some of us have different backgrounds and come from different areas of the world. So I think it takes acceptance that we will not always agree with one another, but if we don't, that doesn't mean we have to convince the other to think like us, nor do we have to defend our right to have our own beliefs. Because it's all ok. If we were all the same, it would make for a very boring world.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:34 am 
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Jody, regarding the justice thing. I have a huge issue with justice. I have had deep feelings about justice ever since I was a child. Not just justice regarding myself, but about others too. I hate to see people being taken advantage of and things like that.

But I think that can also cause you to sometimes get into trouble. I know I have said the wrong things at times when I am dealing with the justice issue. And sometimes you just have to let it go. I don't mean not to try to correct something wrong that happened. But you just have to know when to keep your mouth shut. Believe me, I've learned that the hard way!

So we need to curb ourselves sometimes when it comes to justice. To say "is it worth it?" Not actually giving up - just knowing when to keep quiet. I am not saying this lightly - I honestly am struggling with it now, over the past few years. I have to keep my temper down and sometimes walk away. It's sooo difficult but usually the best way. I hope you understand what I mean!

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