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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:34 am 
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Phew!

As a newbie (only been around a very short amount of time) I would like to THANK AND BLESS Ash and the other Senior Community members for their time, efforts, love and support.

i havent got it anywhere else. Anyone? Anyone?

Love and Respect to you all

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:08 pm 
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smilininside wrote:
Curious, Denim, since I don't know you if you only respond to the posts of people who have helped you?


I tried to respond to the issues in general and did not go through post by post and address every question from each individual because some of the questions were similar enough that they did not seem to require separate replies. Those who had something unique to say were the ones I addressed specifically. I also encouraged people to open separate threads if they wanted to discuss something off topic and I even opened a thread in order to open discussion on a topic raised in this thread that is better discussed in a thread of its own. Are you feeling like I am not paying enough attention to your words or someone else's words?

When several people have already made the assumption that I am being passive aggressive, I responded that being passive aggressive is probably the best option in this situation because being direct is not an option. I don't believe that I need to be any more specific in order to get my point across. I am not angry at anyone and my intent is not to prompt others to be angry either. I tend to write with a pretty unemotional style so any emotions attributed to my words are originating with the reader and not with me. The only emotion I was trying to express was regret, and perhaps along with that disappointment.

My reason for pointing out that I am referring to one person in particular is to avoid the entire community thinking I am talking about them specifically because I know that is a strong tendency. I don't see everyone acting out on a regular basis, although I think it is safe to say that a large number of people do act out on an occasional basis. I am trying to differentiate that I am not talking about them by giving them enough information to eliminate themselves as being the person I am talking about. I don't think the person I am talking about would even be able to recognize herself because she seems to lack that sort of insight.

The point I was trying to make is that I expect the rest of the community to be helpful in a non-enabling manner and it disappoints me when I see people walking on eggshells instead. I understand that everyone is at a different place in recovery and that it is a process. Not everyone is going to be as motivated to change. What disappoints me is seeing the same thing happen over and over again with the same person (it is not important that I name this person as it adds no relevant information to the point I have been trying to make). I will say that the acting out, creating conflict and drama, making excuses and lack of integrity are not as severe as they once were and it is possible that I am more sensitive to the negative impact these things have on a community because I find them more intolerable.

I can see how people might interpret my words to be creating conflict even though I am keeping my tone neutral and not using the same baiting techniques they are choosing to use. I don't reply to those people directly because it appears they are just trying to pick a fight and as long as I don't respond they are left fighting themselves. They are entitled to their opinions and their words say more about themselves than they do about me anyway. My words are what speak about me and they are filtered through so many different filters that they seem to take on different meanings for different people.

EmJay wrote:
By "here" do you mean the Forums? BPDR is more than just the Forums.


Yes, I am referring to the forums. I initially gave her what I thought would take her to the informational section (http://www.BPDR.com) but that did not work so I had to use my bookmark to find the link to the forums and gave her that link instead. I told her she should be able to find a link to the informational sections from the forums but I did not take the time to look for it myself because at the time I sent her the e-mail I did not have the time to do research to find the correct link.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:15 pm 
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Another thing I wanted to mention and then forgot before I hit "submit" is that not all questions have answers. For example, at the end of Jacqui's post she asked "Anyone? Anyone?" and there is no way for me to answer that question (in duplicate) because it is not really a question as far as I can tell. I do appreciate it when people use punctuation because their communication style is much more clear than when people choose not to use punctuation and yet question marks are also used for rhetorical questions, which are more like statements than questions. If anyone asked me a question directly and I missed it, please point it out to me in PM and I will go back and answer the question for you.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:43 pm 
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Ash wrote:
What if we remove the premise that Denim's purpose is to engage in passive-aggressive behaviour and simply look at the words she's posted? Would we then be able to focus on "How do I deal with regret?" or "How do I deal with my discomfort in this setting?" or "I'm having trouble dealing with the practice and concept of being stuck in a particular place"?


Well, I was referring to Denim's specific words (not making assumptions), that's why I set up the quote thing. Perhaps I would have responded differently and focused on "How do I deal with regret?" or "How do I deal with my discomfort in this setting?" or "I'm having trouble dealing with the practice and concept of being stuck in a particular place"? if that is how the thread had been presented in the first place. I don't believe her words express any intent to work on regret or understanding. In fact she expressed directly that she had no intent to stay here at all.

Also, she admits that "passive aggressive is probably the best option in this situation because being direct is not an option". I don't think she is denying it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm 
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Seems to me, Denim, that if you wanted to post a thread about regret you could have done it in a direct way. Why do you feel you have to be passive-aggressive? Ash is saying we should see the "good" in this post. Personally I don't see any "good" intentions in the way you posted at all. But that is just my assumption.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:33 pm 
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Denim? Did you say in your original post that you do not have BPD? Then why are you here posting? Just curious, and this is NOT said in an aggressive manner at all. I find it odd.

Also, I have never met an adult in my life who does not have an inner child. The inner child in all of us, no matter how wounded, hurt or happy or whatever, I describe mine as "Life" or the soul of God and no I"m not religious. Because children are innocent. Completely.

One question? Are you maternal?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:29 am 
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Bordergirl wrote:
Why do you feel you have to be passive-aggressive?


I don't necessarily feel I have to be passive-aggressive. I was accused of being passive-aggressive and I figured that if it is true that I am being passive-aggressive then it may just be the best option since I feel I was as careful as I could be with the way I worded my message. Being direct is not an option so what are my other options? Maybe if I knew what you expect from me, I could comply better.

smudg wrote:
Denim? Did you say in your original post that you do not have BPD? Then why are you here posting? Just curious, and this is NOT said in an aggressive manner at all. I find it odd.


I was diagnosed with BPD at the age of 18 (20 years ago) while hospitalized following a suicide attempt but apparently that was not the correct diagnosis. I had also been diagnosed with Depression and PTSD while I was being treated for alcoholism. When I went into therapy about 5 years ago, I told the treatment team that I had been diagnosed with BPD and I started DBT. Later my therapist brought up my "fragmentation" and explained to me that it was just a "severe form of BPD" as I was pretty freaked out about the DID diagnosis (I had been diagnosed with MPD when I was only 16 and I had insisted that it was not true). I ended up leaving therapy because I figured my therapist must be crazier than me to believe in such BS. I ended up going to an inpatient treatment center to prove the diagnosis wrong but that did not work out in my favor. For the past few years I have been consistently diagnosed with a dissociative disorder and told that I never actually had BPD, although I do have enough traits that I had found it helpful to work on recovery at BPDR. I am not really sure what to do about the dissociation in order to fix that problem.

It is valid for me to belong to this community as someone who has traits of BPD and as someone who is close to someone with BPD (my foster mother). If I had not found it so difficult to be here, I would not have left.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:27 am 
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I still don't understand why you can't be direct. What do you have to hide? What is your purpose of coming back here, apparently accusing someone here passively/aggressively that they have not made progress? This is supposed to be for YOUR recovery - what good is it to half-point fingers at others? Why talk about how you feel others are stuck? That's also pretty subjective and not for you to say. You say you are referring to a certain person yet you can't mention who that supposed person is. To me, that is stirring the pot. I haven't seen anything in your posts that points to your own recovery. Again, just a lot of judgments. I find it disturbing. Again, maybe that's MY stuff, but I'm telling the truth about how I feel about this post. Yes, it's my choice not to read it, but as a member of this community I may be one of the people you are referring to. I just don't see the purpose of your returning and making the statements you made. Why not talk about yourself instead and how you are doing and what steps you have made towards recovery, instead of pointing out what you feel has not been done here by others?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:59 am 
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Denim,

I can relate to some of your thoughts. I have had them myself.

Upon further introspection, I have realized that I can not expect others to hold themselves to the same expectations I hold myself to. I cannot expect others to have the same thoughts I do, the same methods of recovery, the same abilities. I cannot expect what helps me to help others. I cannot expect everyone else to see things from my pov. I cannot expect others to hold the same knowledge, to grow in the same way, to share the same journey in the same way as I do. As much as I think I would like some people to see some things my way, people are unique and they grow as they see fit.

The problem I see is that someone doesn't fit your expectations for growth. I see the same in some people here. But I have learned to accept the differences in people, or I think I'm getting there.

If you choose the draw the line on certain people, that you believe they should not be welcome because they don't meet your expectations, then so be it.

I think there should be a line, and sometimes I think people cross that line- that they use the site for purposes other than recovery, or that they aren't doing what I believe to be recovery - that they are just going through the motions in order to have a social outlet, for one. But who's to say they will in the future? Which is where the calamity lies... perhaps if I had instated what I think is right upon others now, I wouldn't be here either, because I may've been cast out a while back for doing other things that may bother other people.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:28 am 
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And to some of the others who responded -

Interrogating people and pointing the finger doesn't do the job in helping them. I had to learn that one too. Directly pointing out people's flaws and problems only makes them defensive.

Also, one can assume anyone's motives, and have a theory into the way they are acting. Some people don't know proper etiquette as well as others, been there myself, nor know in what way they are stirring the pot. But there is some unresolved issue underlying that is causing them to act this way, and I think clueing in on that and the possible solutions for that is what is important. I can't expect everyone to go by my rules for proper etiquette, only the site rules. Hopefully they will learn upon the way.... but it's not my job to point it out to them. Nor is it my job to judge them for the way they are acting....

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:42 am 
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It appears I have butted my nose into something that has nothing to do with me...as always...I was just saying that what you said Denim was a bit mean to the others and they have been really helpful to me.

That was my only intention.

BTW - at therapy today we started Inner Child Work. My Psychiatrist is the (apparently) best BPD Psych in Melbourne and he beleives in this approach.

The way he treats it is to get you to speak and look at your inner child twice a day and communicate with IC to see what their needs/feelings/wants are. When we started this process I was bawling like a baby and he said that was the point of it. To get out all the grief and feelings (mine personally for example) like abandonment etc of the IC.

He explained that when we bury the feelings of the IC it becomes like a big absess inside us and looking after and listening to IC is a way of getting rid of the horrible stuff inside. After that, and only after that, can you deal with the anger that you hold.

Because when we swallow our feelings we swallow them all. It is not selective like; oh OK I will swallow anger and fear. It takes it all - happiness, passion, joy etc.

He told me a story of a patient he had helped, a woman in her 60's who had only been diagnosed at that time. She followed the IC work and afterwards became extremely angry. She directed her anger towards him (he said that it didn't matter where it went as long as it came out and he doesn't take it personally). Anyway - after she had gone through this process and was on the train on her way to see him one day she got on the train really angry but a couple of hours later she started to feel this really wierd sensation inside.

It wasn't until she got to therapy that she realised the feeling she had was happiness. All her life and she had never felt that contented, happy feeling that the BPD free world feels. She went on to recover and at age 67 kissed a "young gentleman" (he was 63). Her first kiss.

I thought of this stream of posts that had been on the board and i realised very clearly that this is not about IC work - hence the reason I say I have poked my nose in where it doesn't belong.

Your feelings have been acknowledged Denim, is that not enough?

Respect

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:44 am 
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Just realised this should have been in the other one. Sorry

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:18 pm 
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I believe that anyone suffering from BPD NEEDS to work on the Inner Child in order to get better; for eg; over-reacting and going into "child mode" when difficult circumstances present themselves.

I have a lot to say, but don't feel ready to say them yet; please folks bear with me.

I have to work a lot on staying "adult" as my therapist puts it. I look at the reasons why I'm like this and my therapist is brilliant at helping me. I'm lucky.

Where I live it's very hard to find a therapist that can work with people like me. Or is willing to.

I'm too tired now for all the bickering.

I just want to get better. Be a part of the solution.

Who's with me?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:07 pm 
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I tried to be as specific as I could about what I was seeing and yet I still got a private message from someone asking me if I was referring to her. I don't know how to be specific enough so people do not take my words personally without being too specific that I point out a single person.

Thank you all for your comments. After reading all the feedback in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that I had no right to share my "disturbing" feelings with anyone. They are mine and should remain private, not public for comment. It appears my feeling the way I do is wrong and I am a mean person for feeling this way. I don't usually share my feelings with other people and now I remember why. It puts me on the defensive trying to justify my feelings when my feelings are probably invalid and irrelevant to anyone else. It was wrong for me to post this message here - I will be more guarded with my feelings so no one but me has to deal with my feelings in the future.

If there are no further questions for me, I will leave again. I don't seem to have anything positive to offer so there is no point in my being here any longer.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:30 pm 
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Feelings are never wrong, and no one here has made any sort of judgement on your feelings.

There is a difference between feelings and actions, and it is your actions that some (not all) here have taken issue with.

I think it's also worth noting, there's a difference between between twisting thinking and feelings, and sometimes we challenge twisted thinking here, but that's different than saying feelings are wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:35 pm 
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I'm afraid I must disagree with you on two points here, DB. Disagree rather forcefully....

Quote:
After reading all the feedback in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that I had no right to share my "disturbing" feelings with anyone. They are mine and should remain private, not public for comment. It appears my feeling the way I do is wrong and I am a mean person for feeling this way. I don't usually share my feelings with other people and now I remember why.


IMO you have every right and even a responsibility to share such feelings and thoughts. I believe you are seriously mistaken when you say

Quote:
It puts me on the defensive trying to justify my feelings when my feelings are probably invalid and irrelevant to anyone else. It was wrong for me to post this message here - I will be more guarded with my feelings so no one but me has to deal with my feelings in the future.


It's inappropriate for you to feel defensive and IMO quite inappropriate for people to attack your thoughts the way they did in this thread. I felt very sad to see that kind of gang response. I, for one, share many of the feelings you described here and I know of others who share them as well. You are not alone.

Denim, your threads have often, maybe always, left me feeling a little uncomfortable. I think that's wonderful. Some people don't like feeling uncomfortable and will strike out against it. It's quite natural. I believe you did a remarkable job of responding to those challenges with diplomacy, honesty and grace.

As to the second point you're mistaken about...

Quote:
If there are no further questions for me, I will leave again. I don't seem to have anything positive to offer so there is no point in my being here any longer.


IMO your threads are typically quite provocative and I get considerably more learning from threads like yours than I do from treads that sound so much like my own thinking that I might have written them myself.

No pain, no gain, folks. I am here to learn. Not to agree. Not to like. To learn different ways of thinking and behaving that are more effective than the old ways. That's my only reason for being here. To me, it can be quite useful when someone stirs it up a bit and shows the courage necessary to express their unpopular feelings honestly.

Unfortunately, most of those folks who've done that seem to have been disappearing of late.

Thank you, Denim, for helping with my learning. I believe your contributions have always been quite valuable to the board.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:56 pm 
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I agree with what MR wrote. It's the actions, not the feelings that I thought were inappropriate. So I was one of the ones to call you on it. Perhaps it wasn't my place to call you on it, according to the ROE.

Denim, you didn't really express any feelings. You expressed thoughts, with a tone of arrogance and superiority. You acknowledged that there were no feelings in your post. You attacked an unnamed person, yet described them in enough detail that even you were surprised to get a pm from someone who wondered if you were referring to her. Don't you think you could have expressed all of this without referring to anyone in particular.

You may be surprised that I share your FEELINGS on this! I do, and i see what you see too. I just think your way of expressing it was mean and meant to be hurtful to someone in particular. I didn't see you wanting to work anything through. I did see pot stirring.

I'm really surprised that any member of the leadership team doesn't see the original post in this thread as an attack, on the site as a whole and one particular unnamed member. I guess I'm a little baffled by IBF's post. I wonder what kind of response I would have gotten from the leadership team if I had been the one who started this thread. I'm just trying to understand because it boggles my mind.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:32 pm 
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I agree with April. I don't see anything to "learn" from Denim's post, unless it is how to ignore pot-stirring remarks. I too felt she was attacking BPDR as well as one person, who I have no idea who it is. It may feel like a learning experience to some - to me it is plain not good manners. That's just my opinion.

I also don't see anything wrong with expressing feelings. But when words are used to attack people and their rate of recovery here, that is a different story. Again, at what point is that line crossed? When does "sharing feelings" cross over into being rude? What is allowed and what isn't? Personally I wouldn't have the nerve to post what Denim did. I know that I'm not that far enough recovered that I feel I can finger-point at anyone.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:50 pm 
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I thought her post was fine. I don't feel the least bit threatened, and I don't think anyone was being attacked, nor was it against my mode of operation in any way. If I were the one she were talking about, perhaps I would feel a bit uncomfortable, but I wouldn't think I was being attacked. And I would think it was something possibly she wanted to work out concerning me, and that is ok. I don't mind if others talk about me indirectly or directly in their posts in any capacity, if it helps them. But I think the top priority here is about helping ourselves and helping others, and in the name of helpfulness, I allow anyone to use an experience with me directly or indirectly, in their posts. I don't feel as if it's an attack, but something they want to work out, regardless of how they state it. And if there's something in it that makes me believe they are coming from a state of superiority and that bothers me, perhaps that's something I need to work on.

Perhaps it's something to explore, exactly why one would feel threatened by her post. And if one does feel as if she is being rude and/or stirring the pot, that is ok too, but why state it? Is that going to help anyone? Or is that pointing the finger?

Taking things personally.

I don't talk about anyone directly or indirectly in my posts anymore. The reason why is because in the past I had problems with stirring people up, so I took on the responsibility of trying my hardest not to. It seems that others could take on the responsibility of trying harder not to get stirred up as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:57 pm 
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Duplicate post

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:58 pm 
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Aqua, if it's okay for one person to state her feelings, why isn't it okay for another to? I was expressing how I feel about what Denim said. What's so wrong about that? If she can state that she feels people here aren't recovering fast enough for her, why can't I state that I don't agree with the way she's expressing herself? How is what she said helping anyone? I don't understand why some can say what they feel but others get called on it. Makes no sense to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Bordergirl wrote:
Aqua, if it's okay for one person to state her feelings, why isn't it okay for another to? I was expressing how I feel about what Denim said. What's so wrong about that? If she can state how she feels people here aren't recovering fast enough for her, why can't I state that I don't agree with the way she's expressing herself? How is what she said helping anyone? I don't understand why some can say what they feel but others get called on it. Makes no sense to me.


I am going to answer this honestly, imo, because you asked me.

Because it's her post, in which she is expressing her thoughts and feelings. And for me to come in and call her out will only make her defensive, and not help her. Because it is not my thread, in which I should come in and counter her by expressing my feelings and thoughts about her post, which happen to be negative ones. I see it as invalidating, ie, you can't have these thoughts and feelings, because I don't agree with them, and here is how I feel and think, which is arguing, not helping or validating, and actually aiding in the pot-stirring you are calling someone else on. I agree that you have the right to express your feelings and thoughts concerning her post, but perhaps you could start your own thread concerning how you feel, if you want to work through your own feelings and thoughts. Otherwise, her thread is being overtaken with what I see to be bullying, attacking her for having her thoughts and for expressing them in the way she has done. And if you posted regarding your feelings and thoughts about her post, and others came in and argued with you, stating their own opinions which were invalidating and argumentative instead of validating and helpful, I would think the same way about your thread.

I realize I have been guilty of this in the past myself. Mine for different reasons, but still guilty none-the-less.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:34 am 
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april15 wrote:
Denim, you didn't really express any feelings. You expressed thoughts, with a tone of arrogance and superiority. You acknowledged that there were no feelings in your post. You attacked an unnamed person, yet described them in enough detail that even you were surprised to get a pm from someone who wondered if you were referring to her. Don't you think you could have expressed all of this without referring to anyone in particular.


I think that the fact that I type in a more "proper" style has the tendency to make me appear as if I am speaking with a tone of superiority just as people who type in incomplete sentences and don't use punctuation consistently can appear inferior (or ignorant). My unemotional communication style also seems to result in people assuming that I am having strong feelings, perhaps because they relate better to emotional content as a result of being in "emotional mind" more than in "wise mind" (in DBT terms). I often find that the emotional outpouring that comes back at me is out of proportion to the emotion I have expressed and I have yet to understand why people get so bent out of shape over something I have said, especially when it is obvious they are responding to what they think I said, and not to what I actually said.

You are asking me if I think I could have expressed what I was seeing and feeling without referring to anyone in particular. I don't know if I can. I tried describing specific behavior without naming any names and that got interpreted as my being mean and accusing people of not recovering fast enough for me (as if they are even here because of me). How about I try an illustration instead?

Let's say you observe a two-year-old throwing a tantrum because she is two and does not know any better. How would you deal with that behavior? Would you accept the tantrum or would you encourage the child to use "big girl" words instead?

What if you came back two years later when the child was four and saw her throwing a tantrum. Would you accept the tantrum or would you expect the child to use her "big girl" words instead?

A year later you observe the same child, now five years old, throwing a tantrum. Would you accept the tantrum or expect the child to have moved beyone tantrum-throwing by this time? Would you merely encourage the child to use "big girl" words or would you insist the child use "big girl" words at this point?

When the child is six years old and still throwing a tantrum, would you tell the child "I know you were once two so it is okay for you to act like a two-year-old since it is perfectly understandable for you to act that way" or would you tell the child "I expect you to act like a six year old now"? What if the child said "I can only act like a two-year-old because I was taught to act like a two-year-old when I was two"? Would that be acceptable or would you encourage the six-year-old to act like a six-year-old instead of continuing to act like a two-year-old?

What I keep seeing is the equivilent of a tantrum over a period of years where new learning should be taking place. Someone in their fifties should be beyond acting like a child, don't you think? Why, then, would she be allowed to act like a child? Is her "inner child" to blame? Are her parents to blame? Is her husband to blame? Are any of those excuses valid anymore? What I see is people accepting the behaviors instead of challenging them - is that helping in any meaningful way?

Is the purpose of BPDR to accept Borderline behavior or challenge people to behave in more appropriate ways? If you were new to this site and had the chance to observe the behavior of someone who had been here for years and had posted enough to have the title "Senior Community Member" along side all her posts, would you expect that person to be an example of someone doing well in recovery? Would you want to model yourself after that person? What if Ash or any of the Community Leaders were involved in conflict with numerous other members of the board, creating drama, and using the excuse that they don't know any better? Would that give anyone hope for recovery?

I looked for recovery boards for people with DID and they quite honestly scared me because I do not want to become like the people there - I want to get better. I need to see someone acting in appropriate ways to model myself after because I don't want to model myself after people who are stuck in their mental illness. I don't want to talk about how I became the way I am or make excuses about why I have poor coping skills - I want to get better. Don't you think people coming to BPDR want to get better too? Isn't it fair to expect that there will be people here who can model what recovery looks like in order to give them hope? Where would any of us be without hope? I would rather be dead.

I am glad that some people understand what I am talking about and can see that I want what is best for BPDR. I am not here to attack anyone.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:51 am 
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Denim,

One thing I can say is that there is a lot of evidence of Ash making many attempts at helping long-timers who have been here for awhile, and they have happened recently, specifically with the bullet items you mentioned. As I said, I can understand your thoughts, at the same time, I cannot place my own expectations for myself upon others. People don't learn the same things at the same rates, but it has been proven that over time, anyone can and will learn with effort. Everyone doesn't have the abilities or talents you or I do, but they may have some that you or I lack as well. The fact that you don't think some people are making as much effort to learn and that they are being enabled... well, some of that could be true for some people. But there is no way given the means of communication and the many factors involved that I could determine that 100%. I can have some evidence of that, sure, but even if I 100% believe that, I wouldn't have the heart to cast out another who truly needs help, unless they became so out-of-control that it was impossible to communicate with them at all, and that happens here occasionally.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:17 am 
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Location: Reality ~ It's a great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there!
AquaLite15 wrote:
I wouldn't have the heart to cast out another who truly needs help, unless they became so out-of-control that it was impossible to communicate with them at all, and that happens here occasionally.


I quit trying to communicate with the person directly long ago because it only made the problem worse. My hope was that other people would have more success and that there would come a time when I could feel comfortable enough to return, and yet now it seems I am "judging" others for being unsuccessful in the way they are handling the very problem I refuse to deal with! Maybe it is hopeless and I should just learn to accept that. My efforts are most likely to be met with "I won't change and you can't make me" so why bother? If someone wants to be the way they are, they have every right to be that way no matter how difficult it is for others to tolerate. My solution was to leave and that probably remains the best choice. If I could just stop caring about the negative impact this person has on people I care about, it would be so much easier.

I guess what it comes down to is my desire to help people like the person I referred here versus what I can tolerate in order to meet that goal. In reality I am not likely to be any help to anyone because I have not fixed my own problems yet. There are people here I have known for years and I feel invested in them for some reason. Most of them probably don't even realize that I care about them the way I do because I am not one to risk friendship with very many people. I don't even know why I care so much about this person I referred here when she is not my responsibility. So why should it matter to me what BPDR is now, has been, or will be? It is not about me!

On the positive side, coming back here has prompted me to search for a therapist in this area so maybe I should just go with that and not expect anything more.

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