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 Post subject: Acceptable behaviour
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:10 pm 
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SO it came to my attention recently that I made an error. I was trying to work through a situation on the board which involved a bad interaction with a member here, but in doing so I kind of stirred the pot a little by talking about this person indirectly. It hadn't been my intention to do so, but it was pointed out to me that I had.

Anyway, I looked at it all afterwards and with Ash's help saw how I could have better posted. How I could have kept to specific things that were troubling me and how behaviours of others in general affected me and how I could deal with that. The feedback I was given from Ash was really helpful and I have added the info to my learning library for later.

Now, I just read in DB's thread how another admin (IBF) thinks it is ok for her to discuss another member here, indirectly in her thread and has basically accused all of those other members who are protesting against it of displaying unacceptable behaviour.

I'm now totally confused. I look up to the admin team here but, I can see contradictory messages being given. Could somebody, maybe from admin clarify this.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:08 pm 
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I'm not admin, but I'll just go on record as saying that I avoid threads that hint around about one unnamed person and the awful things they did or are doing. It's just more fun than I can handle to try to figure out, via all the dropped hints, who the mystery problem-poster really is.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:32 pm 
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Amanda, it sounds like you're feeling a bit upset about being criticized for doing something and then having another CL complement another person for doing something similar.

If you're ever unsure about or want clarification about what I'm thinking in my posts, I'm right here for questions.

I've reviewed Denim's thread in entirety again twice. I stand by every word in my post and see nothing inappropriate about any of it.

Quote:
Quote:
After reading all the feedback in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that I had no right to share my "disturbing" feelings with anyone. They are mine and should remain private, not public for comment. It appears my feeling the way I do is wrong and I am a mean person for feeling this way. I don't usually share my feelings with other people and now I remember why.


IMO you have every right and even a responsibility to share such feelings and thoughts


So far as I can tell... and I am NOT gonna get into a semantic debate about that post or any other... this is the only sentence from my post that could be interpreted as relating to Denim's original post. Actually, it was about her feelings and whether or not it's appropriate to share them, not about the form we choose to share. Nothing in my post says it's okay to discuss another member. It's about her feelings.

Nothing else in my post speaks about her initial post. Most of it speaks about my view of her posts in general. It speaks briefly to my opinion of her response to the feedback she got from that initial post. That's my personal opinion and having reread the thread several times, it's much stronger now. While there were some thoughtful (to me) offerings in the feedback, there was also some stuff I'd just rather not see here.

So are you saying that what I wrote in this post should be consistent with what Ash wrote to you, perhaps in private, about your other post?

Not sure how I might have known what Ash said in that post, but now that I've reread what she wrote in BD's thread, I see no inconsistency.

Once again I invite you to ask about my meaning if you're ever unsure about it. Had that happened you would have learned a couple interesting things... one of them is that I also admired the work you did in your thread on a similar subject. You stayed focused on your feelings and your efforts to deal with them. You tried hard not to implicate anyone else as the source of your discontent. You tried walking a difficult tightrope and did a pretty good job. I was not alone among CLs in this observation. Had I not been 3,000 miles from my computer at the time, I would have told you so.

In none of this do I make any judgments about propriety in your thread or DM's thread. I simply state that I admire the effort that was made. That I learn from some (not all) of the pot stirring kinda posts here and that I appreciate being able to learn.

I have no idea who either of you were writing about and could not care less about that aspect of it.

I can understand why you might think any criticism you perceived was not "fair", although I didn't preceive that criticism. I'm glad you raised the issue if it was causing you serious discomfort. I hope this has clarified at least some of your questions and eased your concern a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable behaviour
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:04 pm 
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Amanda wrote:
Now, I just read in DB's thread how another admin (IBF) thinks it is ok for her to discuss another member here, indirectly in her thread and has basically accused all of those other members who are protesting against it of displaying unacceptable behaviour.

I'm now totally confused. I look up to the admin team here but, I can see contradictory messages being given. Could somebody, maybe from admin clarify this.


Yes, this is exactly what i was thinking.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:19 pm 
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IBF - Yes, I feel as though I was called to examine how I may have unintentionally stirred the pot by speaking about somebody indirectly as opposed to opening up a general discussion of behaviours that bother me. I see DB doing exactly what I was called out on and I see people respondly in a manner to her that is saying "this isn't ok." I happen to agree with them (which only further helps me to see how badly I messed up in my thread.)

I agree that sharing feelings/opinions/perceptions is fine but it's the finger-pointing, one specific person, nit-picking stuff that I personally find offensive. I have no idea who she's talking about (could be me - lol) but I do know that I didn't at all enjoy reading her post. It made me feel uncomfortable so I can understand why people felt uncomfortable with my post. If anything reading DB's post has been a good lesson for me.

I misinterpreted your post. I get you. You weren't saying that it was ok for her to talk about other members. You were telling her it was ok to share her feelings, perceptions & beliefs without being attacked for that. I agree with that.

Thanks for the clarification.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:20 pm 
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OK, one last try at clarity... IMO there is one view among the LT about the propriety of discussing others in our posts and threads. It's not ok. I've never heard anyone on the team present an opposing view on that.

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Now, I just read in DB's thread how another admin (IBF) thinks it is ok for her to discuss another member here, indirectly in her thread


I don't know where you read that, but it was not in any of IBF's posts because IBF does not believe that, and IBF didn't write that he thought it was ok.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:30 pm 
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Looks like we cross posted, Amanda. Thanks for yours. I would not have posted mine if I"d seen it. I tend to agree that there was some pretty uncomfortable stuff in there. I just did not go to a place of judging propriety about it. Was dealing with other dimensions, as you noticed.

I appreciate your post and am now gonna crawl under the covers with Don Miguel. Don't get any ideas. I'm at Agreement 2. It's amazing how different my take on this writing is since I first read it years back. I love the Toltec - Buddhist harmonic convergence.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:38 pm 
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Yeah, It is a great book. Thinking about dusting of my copy and re-reading it. Glad we sorted this out. :)

Amanda


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:25 am 
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I don't think ibf ever stated it was ok to speak of someone indirectly. His views never stated an opinion on that in Denim's thread. If someone assumed that based on his other statements, then that is what obviously happened.

I said I thought it was ok to, but I also said I can understand why the vote is against it.

How about we try to look at our own behaviors through a microscope instead of those of others, once in a while? I can see some people are confused and wanted clarification, but let's put ourselves in ibf's shoes for a moment, in having to explain himself and his words, suddenly. How would we feel? And could we do that in a manner that is more thoughtful to his feelings?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:31 am 
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Is your post directed at me personally Aqua?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:33 am 
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I misinterpreted what IBF wrote and I have now clarified with him and cleared it up. This had nothing to do with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable behaviour
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:39 am 
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Amanda wrote:
Could somebody, maybe from admin clarify this.


Amanda,

My thoughts were not directed at you, but to anyone who could gain something from them, if not, that is ok too. But I don't understand your statement, "this had nothing to do with you." Why did you ask people to clarify if you didn't want them to clarify?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:41 am 
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Are you admin?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:08 am 
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I believe you stated "maybe from admin", not certainly from admin, which leaves an open door for anyone to respond.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptable behaviour
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:54 am 
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Amanda wrote:
SO it came to my attention recently that I made an error. I was trying to work through a situation on the board which involved a bad interaction with a member here, but in doing so I kind of stirred the pot a little by talking about this person indirectly. It hadn't been my intention to do so, but it was pointed out to me that I had.

Anyway, I looked at it all afterwards and with Ash's help saw how I could have better posted. How I could have kept to specific things that were troubling me and how behaviours of others in general affected me and how I could deal with that. The feedback I was given from Ash was really helpful and I have added the info to my learning library for later.


I completely missed all of this and it might be helpful to me since I appear to be in a similar situation. Is there a link to another thread you can share or did this take place in PM?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:15 am 
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Denim - The interaction with Ash is off board in private so I cannot share any of that info with you. The thread in which I behaved inappropriately is in The 4 agreements forum, entitled harassment.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:40 am 
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Thank you for the information. I just read the thread and nothing about it looked inappropriate to me. I thought you worked through the issue rather well. I did not see any pot-stirring going on so I must be missing something.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:06 am 
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Some of you may recall that we've gone through several incarnations of BPDR.

ezboard --> ezboard w/ HTML site --> phpBB w/ HTML site --> phpNuke --> ezboard --> phpNuke (presently)

In one of those incarnations - either the phpBB or the first phpNuke - I had something posted in a Guidelines or FAQ section that addressed how to get support from the community on Big Scale Topics without direct or indirect references to specific individuals or particular events.

When I wanted to dig that up as a point of reference earlier, I couldn't find it. Apparently it was lost in one of the moves.

It was not my intention to chastise Amanda in any way, shape or form. As such, I did not want to post the replacement FAQ directly on the heels of the recent events. I actually have it on my calendar for next Wednesday. Heh.

Anyway, since it has been brought up and there seems to be confusion about the subject, I've posted the FAQ in the main FAQ section ( Home • FAQ • Your Account • Forums) under the Discussion Board section.

Quote:
I would like community support with a problem I'm having about someone else from the Forums - how should I handle that?

When things like this come up - as they often do around here - and we want to work through them on the board, with the support of the community, to avoid these kinds of "No fair, you can't say that & get away with it" bullshit-fests, it's most helpful if the situation can be stripped of details and boiled down to just the core thing(s).

For the sake of exploring that means a little further, let's say I've gotten into a disagreement with a member of the forums. He told me he doesn't ever want to talk to me again and that lasted a few weeks. Then I posted something on the board to which he felt compelled to talk to me about off the board (in PM and/or email.) I would understandably feel confused by his violating the very boundary he had put in place. I might also take exception to the manner in which he broached the subject and may also be annoyed by the content of his assertions.

If I start posting on the forums about how I've got this problem with one of the members, but I won't say who it is, and how he told me one thing & then did another and got pretty crappy about it, it's almost guaranteed a flame-war of some sort will ensue. He will feel attacked - and rightly so because I am talking about him, behind his back in front of his face. Totally not cool!

The fact that specifics are used - references to the person being a member here, specific words used, the sequence of events, the requests, the conversations, etc. - is what turns things into a powder-keg.

Even if I do a great, fantastic, wonderful job of remaining self-focused throughout the whole thread and continue posting about my perceptions, reactions, thoughts, feelings, etc., the fact that I continue to make veiled references to a specific individual, discussing their actions (within the context of how those actions bothered me) will only serve to poke the person I'm referring to.

On the other hand, however, I might post that I'm having difficulty dealing with the infuration I feel when someone breaks their own boundaries. Surely this happens with other people in my life besides just this one person at the BPDR Forums. (Usually when we feel intense emotions, it's not because of a single incident. It's usually because it's stirring up all those old feelings related to similar incidences - as you later pointed out.)

I might post about my struggle to deal with the projections of others while trying to maintain my own vision of reality and solidify my own somewhat-fragile sense of self.

I might post about my frustration with people who are tenacious bulldogs, can't seem to let things go when I'm trying so hard to retain the "accept it and move on" approach to my Genuine Self. When I want to keep moving forward, it is frustrating when someone keeps tugging on me, pulling me back, trying to shove my nose in poopy from ages ago (like a bad dog.)

I might write about how bothersome it is to be called names (bully, bitch, jackass) and have my own reality completely invalidated (fake, lame, pretentious, arrogant) while my grasp of a healthy reality and Genuine Self is still a bit shaky. There's Past Life stuff connected to these Big Scale Topics as well. Surely this one individual is not the only one who's done these types of things to me.

Most of the time, we use references to specifics only to clarify or provide further detail. Honestly though, the rest of us at the Forums don't need the details. Since we'll never have ALL of the details, having ANY of the details is pretty close to useless!

I hope this helps clarify things for folks.

P.S. - I think I'd be considered Admin. ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:51 pm 
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Ash - I have been wondering if this announcement might have been better done in a thread of it's own, so it's more prominent for all to see? Putting it in a thread that I've started probably wouldn't attract the same attention as a post started directly by you. I think many here (not just me)could benefit from learning the lesson to be taught in your post.


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