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 Post subject: Could it be so simple?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:45 pm 
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For nearly five decades I've been frustrated and emotionally devastated by the destruction that's come from being unable to intervene or redirect the instant negative reactions I've had to certain emotions in difficult interactions. I was convinced I could never change this behavior pattern.

This post is for all of you who find yourself with similar thoughts and concerns. It's also for me, because I'm asking for those who've had similar experiences to share your thoughts about how they came about.

My family always referred to them as "Dad's snits". Usually never loud or boisterous, but always scalpel sharp and equally painful. Often I'd try to soften it with sarcasm or a joke, but they say that just made the pain feel like a rusty scalpel.

When I began this recovery work, I really had no idea how this might come together to have a positive effect on this behavior pattern. I practiced all the DBT skills daily for over a year. I practiced the CBT skills here regularly and learned about some of the kinkier knots in my thinking that related to that instant response. Not much happened. The snits were fewer, but still of the same nature and intensity and still too fast to deal with.

Then I stopped having them. Doh. One here, two there, situations where I"d normally throw a snit and didn't. Puzzled over this for quite some time as the frequency and intensity continued to reduce gradually. At one point a few months back I was thinking about posting here to ask of folks' experience with changes in values about defensiveness having an effect on behavior. It was something that happened in addition to all the practicing and reading and working... something else... that made it seem, more often, in those situations, that the snit reaction was neither desirable nor necessary. That it brought more trouble than good and other reactions were much more effective. But I wasn't sure about what that other force was. Still am not. But I am sure it's smooth sailing for now even though I know I will have future snit moments.

In the past three weeks, including today, I've encountered ten live snit situations and two serious phone snit situations. And I've been snitless throughout. Without really trying. But here's what has happened each time and it's surprising to me.

As I pictured the effective snit interruption technique, I thought it was likely that the snit feeling and snit thought, being so fast, would run it's course and hopefully I could think of an effective response before the snit response happened. No way! Too fast. Seemed hopeless.

Wrong target!!!!!! What's been happening is that by virtue largely of mindfulness practice, observing and describing physical, emotional and thought stimuli, I've learned to see them when they're coming. A few months ago I had a few snitlets where I could feel and "see" the reaction, on a cloud above my left shoulder, waiting to see what I'd do with it. Sometimes I'd laugh and take a detour from the snitersection.

And that seems to be the difference. Now I feel them coming, see them coming, and hear them coming so early in their formulation that I can stop them before they're all grown up snits. Really not much effort involved at that stage. It's like... "uh-oh, here he comes again... why don't you go back to your room and play while the grownups take care of this?"

Incredibly, today I dealt with the state unemployment bureaucracy in the form of telephone and computer systems for benefit enrollments because I got hit in our seasonal layoff this time. I didn't punch out the HR weanie who called us into the meeting Friday, although I've had thoughts like that several times before... and today was just amazing... since I couldn't get to a human via the telephone and going to the office is not acceptable, I registerd online. Not too bad, it took only four tries. So then I thought I'd take one last shot to add a partial week claim for the holiday and what do you know.. got in the cue for a human. Half an hour later, there she was... just as I realized that I was using my cell phone which blacks out at the least opportune moments for no good reason. Mini terror. Anyway, this lady was nice enough, but kinda... uhh... I dunno, maybe in some lala land. Kept telling me what I'd done wrong and stuff. I saw and felt the anxiety begin to build, and without even thinking about it much, simply made the decision that whatever happened, I would not do a snit act. And I didn't ... at one point she told me that because I'd used the internet, it would automatically generate a snail mail letter to my employer for verification that would hold up my check for up to three weeks... normally upon hearing that I'd let out at least a whoop and likely a scream...

but what I said was.. "so... your telephone message says if we can't get through by phone.. and you are not gonna answer the phone anytime soon, we can go enroll on the internet.. and it says nothing about a letter.. and while enrolling, your online system says nothing about a letter, and the HR weanie at our office says we can enroll online and says nothing about a letter... it seems the only one who knows anything about a letter is you. Why do you think that is so?"

We nearly became close pals after that.

My point is, don't give up hope. The change may come just when you think it's time to give up. It may come in ways and at times that you don't expect it to come. But if my experience is any indication, if you work it daily long enough, it will eventually come.

Anybody have a similar experience that might help explain this development a bit?


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 Post subject: Snitersection!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:31 am 
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Snitersection! Oh, IBF! LOL!

I know what you are talking about, oh yeah, do I. The "snits". In my family, we would call it a "mad on". As in, "watch out, Mom's got her mad on."

I like how you bonded (almost) with the woman at the bureau - hard to do considering all that red tape, eh?

I've had very few and far between snits for almost 1 1/2 + now. The difference? Hmmmmm.....

Core values and beliefs that I've had to look at and change. A big one for me was the "I am NOT ALWAYS right!" The other one was to treat everyone with courtesy and respect, EVEN if I think they don't deserve it. Also, courtesy and respect for myself at all times.

Being nasty, sarcastic, and "snitty" with someone usually undermines the relationship. Some, if in early enough stages, the snit will effectively end the relationship. Another core belief, "Relationships are the blood of life." Do I really want to harm a relationship with another? Oh, sure, the nameless clerk at the grocery store, well who cares? I do, because that clerk is a person, too, that deserves courtesy and respect. So does my daughter, my H, my neighbors, etc.

Recently, I had a "mad on" with someone. I fell into that old trap that IF they saw my perception, they would know I was RIGHT. I was being disrespectful to this other person and was trying to control them and the outcome. Ugh.

Nope. I didn't (couldn't) change their own perception. And no, it didn't feel very good. I didn't feel very good about myself. (No, didn't beat myself up. Just got up and said, "Don't want to do that again!" and I'll keep on going.)

I see the "snittiness" in my M Sis. I watch as she goes into one. I see the "signs" and recognize them. I want to help her, but can't.

As you mention, this means sitting with one's own emotions, feeling them, feeling the snit coming on and making a choice to deflect it. Knowing that the emotions being felt are temporary. It becomes "easy" after practice and certain things fall into place.

Like untwisting the twisted thinking. The HALT. The Four Agreements.

Knowing that those temporary emotions and reacting to them is going to cause some permanent destruction. Not effective. That is another piece, "Will what I DO be effective in getting me what I want/need?" Also, one has to define what it is that they want/need. A goal of self respect and respect for others. A goal to keep relationships intact and not suffering. A realization that one is not always "right" and one has a perception that is different from another. A goal to forgive others for their mistakes and the past. A goal to forgive oneself.

I got the same thing in a loooooong on hold phone call with the phone company yesterday. After waiting 15 minutes, the first person couldn't "help" me. So I got put on hold again. Finally, I got someone who could help me. Yes, it was frustrating but I kept my cool.

And the having to wait 3 weeks for a check? Man, I would want to scream, too, BUT... ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:50 am 
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changing thinking patterns, or how we feel will auto change how we behave. such a cool thing. i didnt realize it would happen, but it does. and other things will just vanish, they arent needed anymore as a coping mech.

its really cool how it happens.

that is why i find it hard when someone says work on the behavior but not the source, the thinking. i dont think it can be done that way. it needs to be done the other way around. i think the bad ways of behaving will always come up until we change the core thinking.

congrats, ibf!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:52 am 
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IBF, what an encouraging story! Thank you for telling it.

When I started working on myself I neeeeeeded it to work nooooooooowwwww!!!!! But it didn't. I imagine many of us have been there.

This work we do on ourselves is like casting our bread upon the waters. We don't know when it will come back to us. But it will, if we keep at it and don't give up hope.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:54 am 
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Boy, is this a timely post for me! Last night I went on-line to access my medical insurance claims. Well, they did over their web-site and I couldn't access anything! I kept creating new passwords and it STILL didn't work. I was getting angry and frustrated. I sent them 6 e-mails, complaining about the lack of service, how terrible the new site was, etc.

This morning I called and learned that the whole system is down for a little while. The people who work there can't even access their files!

So I talked to my T about it today. He told me that I have a problem with "entitlement." That I believe things should go a certain way, and if they don't, I get all bent out of shape. But he said that ultimately, I am the one who suffers. Sure, other people may snicker behind my back when they see me coming, and so on. I would get all bent out of shape if my therapist didn't take me on time, or if I had to wait a long time to see another doctor. I'd get angry at the office staff. But as I just said, I am the one who suffers. He said that I need to figure out what to do to stop doing this to myself.

So that is my goal this week. To stop making myself sick by expecting things to go a certain way - the way I believe they should. When my T told me that, it was like having cold water poured over my head, but in the end he is right. So I'm grateful for your post IBF. I should read it over and over and over again.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:13 pm 
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Heh. :dixie

Er, anyway ...

My theory is that practice makes perfect and there's no linear recovery. We can read about recovery stuff till our eyes blur and fingers go numb but it won't stick until we've lived it for a while.

We can learn about Tool A and work with Tool A for six months. But without Tools B, C, D, E and F, Tool A is just interesting but not terribly effective.

Some tools require other tools to be fully effective.

If we're building a house and we have a screwdriver, that's helpful - for the things that need to be screwed. But when you add a hammer, now there are things you can pound more effectively. If you have a tape measure, that's great because you can tell exactly how long something should be but without a saw and a mitre box and the glue and the screws to hold it together, what will you actually accomplish with just a tape measure?

If you've ever done home improvement work, you know the addage is true: it's just not a home repair without two trips to Home Depot. Heh. Seriously though, even though you may have a rough idea of the tools and materials you'll need for the project, there's always something that comes up that sends you out for something else.

Much the same with recovery, we may have an idea that we need DBT and CBT and therapy and meds but until we actually go out and get those things and practice working with them, we'll be lucky to cobble together a flimsy bird-house. Once we've spent some time really honing our craft, we can build a mansion! We have all the right sockets and screws and bolts and everything else to make it come together, stay together, function wonderfully and look fantastic.

The more practice we have, the more natural and easy it becomes to us.

When's the last time you had to concentrate on walking?

When's the last time you were consciously aware of driving, checking your mirrors, signaling, planning the directions, etc.?

Most of it just happens naturally now. :thumbsup

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:32 pm 
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Thanks Ash. That's what I was saying in therapy today. That that automatic behavior is not there for me yet. I react the way I do (badly) and before I know it I'm shit-deep into it. I can't get myself out. He said I have to stop it at the beginning, when it's first starting to happen. So I have to be aware of it first. Once I can do that behavior over and over, then it will come naturally.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:50 pm 
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Just lost an hour long post composition thanking you all individually for your thoughts. Now it's time for night night. So let me do it this way. Thank you kindly for your thoughts and taking time to post them.

ib


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:23 am 
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I don't have much to add... I just wanted to say congrats on your achievement, ibf.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:20 am 
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while its all hard work cause its stuff we didnt want to face or admit, strangely enough the concept is really simple. if only it was easier to DO!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:26 am 
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I'm sure glad you didn't lose the original post, IBF.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:36 pm 
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Excellent post IBF hope I get there some day to, till then more practicing for me! I am learning much from your posts!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:31 am 
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Oh IBF!

I just had to give this a comment, I needed a giggle today. Laughing at your new board status.

"Snitless Community Leader" Image

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Great minds have purposes, others have wishes. Little minds are tamed and subdued by misfortune; but great minds rise above them.-Washington Irving


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:30 pm 
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It was a surprise gift from an anonymous - but I believe very blonde - benefactor. Rather dashing dontcha think?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:15 pm 
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That's cute haha.

:thumbsup


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:18 pm 
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Quote:
It was a surprise gift from an anonymous - but I believe very blonde - benefactor. Rather dashing dontcha think?


Hehehe. Cannot even imagine who gave you that title. I saw it early on and got quite a chuckle. It does rather suit you, eh?

You are a 'wise one' and my congratulations to you, again, on your leadership here as well as your 'snitless' recovery. :bowdown

:biggrin Nope, not much of a brown noser, either...really.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:26 pm 
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Your nose is perfect, GH. Always stickin' it in Trubble's business. Especially when nobody else has the cojones to do what's right and needed.

Take good care of that nose. WE need it to be on the job.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:36 pm 
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Whew! As long as it's not "Trump's business"... (as in the Donald).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:44 pm 
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I thought your post was so wonderful IBF. I don't think as far along the road as you with overcoming the snit just yet, but I'm noticing some changes that you mentioned in your own experience. If there's any one reason I can out these changes down to, Iwould say it's got to do with practice and frequency. BPDR has been here for my practice (as has my T) for a number of years. It's gotta pay off, and it does.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:45 pm 
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Yep, that was like my experience, Sarah. Of course I'm not finished yet, either and won't be certain till I'm up against a dear love telling me I'm a worthless sack of *&^% that she has to divorce. If I'm ever fool enough to get in such a position again, I'll have my final exam for sure.

It seems to me there's a strange and powerful relationship among the various elements or strains of recovery work. I'm really quite intrigued by this because the intensity and power of each element seems to vary with each person and each collection of situations. There must literally be many thousands of paths to recovery! What good news.

I guess it's the two that don't involve a lot of words... either receiving or giving in spoken or written form thay mystify me with their power. The skills.. the practice work.. again and again... no need to talk about it, just do it.. you can FEEL change happen even if you can't put a tag on it. And then the thing about values and how they change as we go, so that we get moving back toward our core, perhaps because our fear reactions are less necessary and become unimportant and then useless and we cast them off in favor of reactions more healthy. Without much of a word. It's a kinda mysterious thing to me, but I'm convinced that we will all get where we're going. Those who spend the trip working on healthy happy living will somehow end up there. I'm optimistic that I might one day.


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