BPDRecovery.com: Forums

I had a so-called normal session today. I had 2 issues to discuss so we decided to start my "summary of therapy" as I call it, next month instead of today. I forgot how "normal sessions" feel, when I don't talk a little about my attachment to my t, or when I don't feel a strong connection to her. They feel blah! Yukky! Disappointing! Flat! Is that how therapy sessions are supposed to feel? No high, no fix, just a good conversation back and forth. It was okay, and I got help with what I wanted. I wasn't a baby with her; I was an adult. I didn't cry when I left. I just felt blah.

So, that's why I'm quitting. Wanting that high became too important. Wanting to be her baby and wanting the high. I was so crazy, but I couldn't help it. So now I'm going through withdrawal. I've never been on drugs, but that's how I feel. I know I'm doing the right thing, and that I will come out stronger, but it sure does hurt me now. I don't like "normal."

Aww ((wondering))

Normal Life is very much an adventure from where I am sat. Life is one big journey. From start to finish. But I find freeing my mind some and living where life ebbs and flows some brings me great pleasure. It means I can go get fun if I want it. But day to day is just that. Smile at the little things, laugh often cry about the same. But all within comfortable limits.

Withdrawl is a naff pace to be, it sucks.

But I have found if during withdrawl I draw on life and living it some more, and be very caring with me, I can usually ride it out some more.

Am dealing with leaving some therapeutic relationships myself and am seeing very much how important upping self care and focusing in the moment is to getting through.

Thank you for your insightful thoughts, Bogit. I'll try. I am going to smile at the person in the mirror right now, LOL!

And I sit here knowing that that person smiled right back at ya!

((((Wondering))))

I'm glad you got to discuss "normal" stuff with her. But I felt a little bad for you. Mainly because when I discuss the "normal" stuff with my T and what he says clicks with me, I do sort of get that high. It's not to do with our relationship per se. It's more that he understands where I'm coming from and he validates my feelings, whether he agrees with them or not, and I feel understood. We also discuss the issue and pick it apart and he teaches me things. So I usually leave the session with a very warm feeling.

I guess I felt bad that you didn't feel that way. I wonder if you get all you can out of that kind of therapy. It makes me wonder if you're missing out on something. It seems you focused more on your dependency on your T and the other issues were just side-lines.

I'm sorry you don't like normal. I wish you could have experienced therapy in a better way, a more positive way. To me, that's the crux of therapy. Anyway, you asked what therapy sessions are "supposed" to feel like? I don't know if there is any one answer. Everyone experiences therapy differently and everyone has different expectations of the therapeutic process. I came in wanting to learn from my T. I also wanted him to help me uncover my issues and why I do what I do and feel what I feel. He teaches me a lot. He's helping me uncover who I am and why I do the things I do. And how to change those behaviors. Even though I have become dependent on him, we haven't really discussed that issue. The other things we discuss are more important to me than how I feel about him. Maybe one day when I have really discussed all the other stuff I might bring up my dependency on him. But it's not in the forefront of my therapy goals.

I'm glad you know what you need and how to deal with that. Maybe after detaching from her you will find some distance, and maybe one day in the future you might go back to therapy and approach it from a different vantage point. I guess in the long run you have to know what your priorities are. And if your priorities are healthy. Then you can go from there.

Wondering,
I just am not sure. Yes, some sessions are boring or more blah than others on and off, at least for me they are.

From all the reading I've done, the "relationship" seems to be an important part of therapy and healing. How that relationship is handled is different for different people and different therapists.

For me, the going in and talking every week to somebody who doesn't change much and is consistent in their treatment of me and reliable and safe is important. I think it helps heal the years of insecurity and mistrust I've developed in general.

Yet, also for me and some of us, there is that tug for more. It feels good, we didn't get enough, and I sometimes want to drown myself in those good feelings or binge on them somehow. I want to grab on and never let for fear that I wont get more or that I could somehow fill up by just consuming another safe person. Like a newly sober alcoholic in a bar. Or a newly in control binge eater at the Hershey factory.

I've never really talked to my T about this for fear he will push me away further. I've worried about that for like five years now. Maybe I should just blurt out whatever by now huh? I know you have discussed all this with YOUR T already. It seems you have run the gamut of this type of scenario.

I don't like boring or "normal" either. I think there can be "kicks" in life, but we have to find healthy kicks. For everyone that is different. I think it can include people in healthy ways. But what does that look like and can it be exciting?

I realize now that I don't want responses answering my question of how therapy is "supposed to be." They just make me feel worse. I know I asked that question, but I made a mistake. I just want support for what I am going through right now.

BG: During therapy, I had many sessions like you describe. I also had many sessions with other Ts where I wasn't so dependent. So, please don't feel bad for me. I made it be about my t in this therapy. So I got what I THOUGHT I wanted. I can't explain it any better than that. If I didn't still want that "high", I would say that my session yesterday was productive. I've had more productive ones, and less productive ones. I don't regret my therapy. Maybe I'm being stubborn when I say I won't seek out another t, but I think I'm being smart. I don't think any t can solve my attachment problem, and there's too much risk of being attached again. Does that make sense?

C2L: I think your T knows most of your feelings already, and will not push you away if you talk about them. Yeah, I've run the gamut of that kind of scenario. LOL. I like the way you phrased that. It hasn't done much good, either. Your T would probably tell you the same thing as mine, something to the effect that he can't fill you up and meet those kinds of needs. Still, I found value in TELLING her, and having her accept my telling her. Maybe you'll try it someday.

My t has told me that I can get those feelings in healthy ways by being creative, by helping other people, by having reciprocal friendships, etc. But when I get too excited, it's not good. Life is supposed to be "normal", not filled with highs all of the time. There has to be a balance: feeling good vs feeling depressed or feeling high. It's hard.

Bogit: Yep. She smiled and waved back.

So Wondering I have been meaning to ask if you have managed to start looking for some other activities to do that are very much for you, and in line with your interests and hobbies?

How is it all going today? Is that person in the mirror still smiling and waving? mine is!

That's awesome, Wondering.

Do you think if you and your T can keep things less intense it will ease the transition out?

Like you, I think therapy CAN become addictive, in which case intermittent 'hits' of intensity are going to set off cravings and yearnings again.

I think the less intense you can keep it, the easier you'll find it to make the break.

If you can understand it as an addiction, then some of the techniques that work for other addictions can help. I had a really hard time leaving my T, and I used a lot of mindfulness tools to do it. In the end I learned to just watch feelings come and go without having to act on them, and also to stand the intensity of the feelings without responding. It was still very hard.

Also, having quit smoking a couple of times I knew that if I caved in once, I was just setting off the whole pattern again - that without the first 'hit', there would eventually be no more cravings for the next one and the one after that.

I also came to understand that like smoking, I was at that point only wanting to get a 'hit' from T to relieve withdrawal symptoms. It wasn't doing me any other good, beyond easing the pain between 'hits'. And in my case, it was actually doing me a great deal of harm.

Things have eased up a bit for me at work now, so will try to come back here a bit more and contribute some more. I am sorry I haven't been much help til now!

I'm glad you've reached a place where you see "Wanting that high became too important. Wanting to be her baby and wanting the high. I was so crazy, but I couldn't help it." I just hope you're able to find that high (or a comparable, similiar one) inside yourself sooner or later.

further to what Ash said..

or maybe learn to live without the 'high' altogether? If you take the addiction analogy further, successful quitting is usually about living without the 'high' rather than replacing it with another high...valuing simple, common, everyday relationships that don't contain things that are either harmful to us or that we should long have out-grown/learned to be without, anyway.

One of the things I found hardest, for sure, was the gradual re-learning that 'normal', reciprocal adult relationships were nothing like a T relationship. T stuff is (or should be) one sided, always focused on us and our needs, intensely interested in us. Real world relationships are for sure a messier, more complex and frustrating affair -but ultimately deeper and more satisfying.

I had forgotten all that, after 3 years of T, and years of being told that this is how the world SHOULD treat me, and this is what I had missed all my life. Which was just plain wrong. T-world is a whole different place to real world, and readjustment can be hard when other relationships can seem to pale in comparison.

Bogit, yeah she's still waving and smiling at me. My problem is that I don't have time to start anything new. I procrastinate a lot about the things I have to do, and I am tired a lot of the time. I work a few days a week, come home, and just want to be a couch potato, which for me means going online. Connecting with people on the board, and sending emails to friends satisfies me, usually, and it's easy for me. But I know I have to set limits. I trust my T, and I know she thinks I spend too much time on the board instead of doing other, RL things.

I try to find balance. I have functions to attend to, with and without my H. Often, those are enough to keep life enjoyable for me without extra hobbies. Yet, I do have some interests I want to pursue, if I make the time for them. So, I'm not that motivated to change as long as I'm not depressed. I don't know if that made any sense or not. I'm never quite sure of what I really want for myself.

Ash, I hope so too! I am trying to live like that, practicing mindfulness and finding the "high" in everyday pleasures, and realizing that it's all within myself, like you told me.

Susanna: Thank you for your response. Everything you say rings true for me in my situation with my T. Yes, it's an addiction and my T has been treating it as such. I just bought a book on love addiction, and though it's not about addiction to Ts, the same principles apply.

You're right. I experienced the withdrawal symptoms after my session on Thursday, but did not, and do not have the intense need for that hit, or fix right now. I didn't cry and long for her like I do after sessions that are about my feelings for her, and how she can't meet them, or are about other issues, but more intense ones.

I see that "normal" is the goal, not the enemy. You're right. My T told me more than once that my goal is not to need the highs, that everyday life is not a high, and that I could be satisfied with living that way. She does not want me to replace her with anyone or anything else, and cautions me to be aware of relationships that seem to offer me that high again. The catch-22 is that therapy is a risk for me. I don't know if the benefits outweigh the risks in my case. I'm better off in a group because I don't trust myself not to get into the same situation if I ever wanted to see a different T. I intend to stay out of therapy, but one never knows what real issues may come up, so it's always going to be a problem for me. I would go back to my same T rather than risk attaching to someone new and exciting.

I only have a couple of more sessions, so I won't get a chance to have more that are less intense. I don't want to drag it out, though. I am choosing to summarize my gains, and tie up loose ends, and my T agreed that's a good way to end. Maybe it will take more than 2 sessions. If I stay the "adult" it should be okay. I want to be able to come back "as needed", but want to have closure and have a break first. From what you're going through now, I'm not sure I should leave myself open to going back, but my T and I are on good terms, and she has strong boundaries, so I think it will work out.

Yes, the T world is a totally different place than the real world, but I think that's true only for some of us. I know plenty of people, many on this board, who go to their Ts once a week, and don't have the attachment that you and I have (had). Your T abused the therapeutic relationship, which is totally unethical. It didn't have to be that way. My T always turned me back towards real life and reciprocal relationships rather than focusing on her. It's just that my addiction/needs were too strong.

I'm gonna come back to this later, I have to meet somebody right now.

I think you're doing really well in taking the time to think all this through, rather than freaking out - and you're doing a great job of mentally rehearsing the break.

((Wondering))

I just wanted to acknowledge how hard you are working with this.

Keep going!

I picked up this quote from one of the kids school news letter today talking about addictions "An ever-increasing desire for an ever-diminishing pleasure."CS Lewis.

Was thinking about when you describe seeing T as a high! The problem is that the high is so short lived and the pleasure it bought you seemed so small in comparison to the down times and withdrawal that has followed each meeting.

I hope you come to enjoy life without extremes!

Maybe taking a break from therapy would give you a good opportunity to assess whether you need more...or whether it's about wanting/needing the relationship?

You're right, my T situation was different because my T was not acting ethically. But I sort of jump a bit when you say your needs were too strong...because it sort of makes it sound like your fault that you're in this situation.

Sometimes I wonder whether therapy (regardless of the individual therapist) is an addiction-generating process (sort of like a class A drug) but not everybody gets hooked, only those who have certain vulnerabilities. Sort of like some people can smoke the odd cigarette here and there, while others are in boots and all from the first one.

There are a lot of books now about how psychotherapy can change your brain chemistry for the better. But the flip side of that, I think, is that it can have unwanted (or unhelpful) impacts that may be out of everyone's control - esp for those with attachment issues. And no amount of willpower can talk to those bits of the brain that are drowning in messy, reptilian emotions. All we can do is use the rational bits of our brains to undertake behaviours and guide our thinking so that ultimately, that 'old' brain chooses different emotional paths. Or something like that.

So I think it's probably a matter of time, Wondering. And that you need to create new pathways, new neuronal connections that will create different sorts of pleasure-associations in your brain. Not to replace the T ones, but to create a different route.

I think you're doing so well with this. It's so, so hard.

Wondering I personally think this is great news. To me it seems that you've finally made some serious movement on this topic, which I imagine must come with some sense of satisfaction to you.

I don't mean to go speculating about the rights and wrongs of your decision. This is just my view over time and we have discussed this many times. In my own experience with obsession I have found the best way to recover from it is to cut contact completely. With you I've often thought that, well it's your therapist and so cutting contact may not be the best idea. Perhaps that obsession should or at least could be dealt with in therapy. I guess what I'm getting to is that now you don't have that concern. You will now know that your obsession with your T is finally drawing to an end with very little risk of recurrence.

Will you be finding another T?

Bogit:



That is an excellent quote, and so true for me. I didn't realize how much I depended on the highs from my t. My t and I knew it and we discussed it, but the discussions triggered it more than helped, I think. In spite of that, I've gained a lot from therapy about other issues, so it's okay.

Susanna:

.

Maybe this is true, but I have a tendency to get addicted, in general. Not to drugs or alcohol, but to people. It's really a love addiction, but therapy feeds into that, so I do have that vulnerability. Needy people will be the ones to get hooked. I can't even imagine how bad off I'd be if my T had been weak and given into my demands. I wouldn't be able to stop, and it could turn into what happened to you, Susanna. I would be a basket case, I know it. I'm very grateful that my Ts have been ethical.

Sarah:


My T assured me that I am ready to do without therapy, so why would I see someone else? It's too risky for me. I saw other Ts in the past to help get over the same thing with my very first T; it would be an endless cycle. I just have to give up my addiction to people. So, when I have other issues, I will see my same T, since I trust her and feel comfortable with her, and of course she knows me and my issues already. There is no way I would go through this again. I've learned that therapy can't solve it for me. I have the tools to solve it myself.

I saw my T at a wedding I attended. It was huge, over 600 people but as usual, I "bumped into her" without even trying. It was awkward because I started talking about the food, which was an issue I discussed in therapy. We just exchanged a few sentences and then she walked away. I tried not to look for her, but it kind of spoiled my night. I knew ahead of time that she would probably be there. We didn't sit at the same table, which was fortunate. I saw her leave, and then I felt depressed.

I've come to the conclusion that it will be a long time before I am not triggered by seeing my T in RL. I just want it to be like therapy when I see her. I'm jealous when she talks to other people. I think it's worse because I know that soon I will ONLY see her in RL unless I make an appointment. I don't want to get depressed when I run into her, but it is going to happen, it seems to me. Does anyone have any ideas how I can handle this, or do I just have to accept the situation for now?

Can you define what it would have taken for you to not feel depressed after seeing her in public? Did you want her to talk with you for a more extended length of time, as she would have during a therapy appointment? Did you want her to say something specific or respond to you in a specific way, as she would have during a therapy appointment? Would it have mattered what she said and did or would you have felt the same way when she walked out the door? Would it have been better or worse if you had not seen each other or spoken to each other at all? Can you focus your complete attention on the function (the wedding, etc.) without it being about seeing your therapist there?

Oh, boy, Wondering - when you figure this one out, can you let me know?!

I totally understand how hard it would be for you to see her and not to be able to really interact at any sort of deep level. It feels odd and stilted and really depriving. I think that is a normal human reaction to feeling close to somebody one minute, and having to be totally superficial the next.

I was thinking about that tonight: what other situations are there in life that are like this? Do we have any 'models' for it that we can remember for 'practice?'

The closest I could come was breaking up with somebody you still have feelings for - and how the feelings fade in time, til you have trouble remembering why that person was the centre of your universe at all.

I do think it would be good...for me, for you...to learn to let go gracefully, and without this terrible sense of either yearning or pushing away...I'm in the pushing away stage, but it's really just another colour of the yearning, I think. It's just as 'attached', just in a different way. It's another way, I think, of not letting go.

I dunno.

I really like Buddhist philosophy. A Buddhist would say that you keep on getting given these situations to work through until you get it right. So I try to see Ex T in that light, as much as I can. Maybe this is your opportunity, too, to learn something you didn't learn already? I know that for me..I missed a lot of earlier 'lessons' in life. I think that's why it's so hard.

Maybe it will always be awkward (talking to both of us here)? Maybe it's always going to be a case of feeling deep feelings, and accepting they're happening, and letting them be.

So freaking easy to say, so impossibly hard to live!

Denim: thank you for all those good questions. I will respond a little later because I'm pressed for time now.

Susanna: What I remember is when I once broke up with a boy-friend in college and I asked him if we could still play ping-pong. We couldn't! I grieved for a long time.

Thank you for understanding, though I wish we both weren't in these circumstances! I'll write more later.

Wondering, as you know, I had to leave my first "beloved" therapist. I grieved for so long! But unlike you, who live in the same area as her, I didn't get to see her anymore. Maybe it was easier that way. So I'm just going to say the cliche - it takes time. You will fill your life with other things, get involved with your job and projects and friends and family. You will always remember her and maybe even love her, but eventually it won't hurt as much. And please, I don't say this lightly. It is not easy, I know that. But you seem strong in your decision and I think you will be able to pull it off. You always said your T wanted you to get more involved in Real Life - this gives you that opportunity! I know it hurts right now, but grief always hurts. Have you ever read about the different stages of grief? You might want to look it up on the Internet so you can understand what you might be experiencing at various times. Maybe that'll help you.

((((Wondering))))

Denim,

You asked me some important questions. Last summer I saw my t somewhere in RL and I felt satisfied because she gave me her complete attention. We shared something as equals.

I called her tonight and told her most of my feelings about seeing her. She was empathetic, even said she hoped it didn't spoil my evening! She does not have any suggestions for me other than accepting the situation. She told me that she talks to her friends at these functions, not her clients, but it's okay for me to talk to her briefly. I already knew that. I also told her that I would have been better off not seeing her there. She told me that I wanted her complete attention. I agreed.

So, that's the way it is. I tried to concentrate on the wedding and not think about my t, but I didn't succeed. Sometimes I do better, and am more relaxed. I am just going to have to accept the situation. I don't want to limit my activities because of my t. I want to "get over it."

Susanna: Everything you wrote rings true for me. I think the crux of the problem is that therapy feels intimate. I feel like my t knows almost everything about me, and I know a lot about her too. She believes in talking about herself if it helps, and I'm in her house for therapy, so I do know more than many people know about their Ts. I know it's not reciprocal, but it's still close. You know how it is. So, there I am in a social setting, and my t stands out in the crowd as someone I can relate to because I don't have to pretend with her. I can be myself. Yes, I have other friends, but they don't know me as well or as intimately. But I have to pretend otherwise, like it's a superficial relationship, in RL. I have to be fake with her. Yeah, it sucks.

I like the Buddhist philosophy you mention. Do it until you get it right. That's the way I feel. I want to be successful in this, or it will mean my therapy wasn't a success. Maybe that's twisted thinking, I don't know.

BG: Thank you! I know it takes time. No matter if I see my t in RL or I don't, I will still grieve the loss of regular therapy. Yes, I have a handout on the stages of grief that a former t gave me. I will reread it; that's a good idea.

((((Wondering))))

Have a good night!!!!

I'm getting more anxious and sad about terminating therapy. My next session is still a couple of weeks away. I'm trying not to think about it, but that doesn't always work, and I know I have to accept my feelings. 5 years is a long time to be in therapy, and then: "poof", it's over. I feel good that I'm at this stage, but I feel so sad about it. Can anyone keep talking about it with me? My wise mind says maybe I need to stop dwelling on it, and stop posting about it, but my emotion mind can't do that yet.