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 Post subject: discussion on internal enslavery/link
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:28 pm 
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the link.... http://www.enslavement.org.uk/about

denim mentioned this in a CC and i would like to hear views on this and see how mine stack up. this is not about denim but about the idea of this web site in the link and its lifestyle.

she didnt want to do it in a open forum so i was thinking on it anyways and saw where i dont think she would mind if another did it.

i really dont know what to think. i cant relate to this. i am so far from a submissive or a need to be dominant that i cant understand it. i crave equality and honesty. i crave respect for who i am. this is the opposite of that.

esp the owning of another human as property. with their consent, understanding that later on they will have no consent. i read all the pages to this site. one must to understand this "concept". i wont copy and paste, i trust anyone can read it for themselves and see the words.

i must say i dont get it. i cant see it fitting into a recovery at all. since they advocate literal slavery (and he means it as he defines slavery) of a woman. he mentions "females". and he admits they will have no say so in the process later on down the road. how utterly scary is that? why would a human have this need to own another as property? he repeatedly uses this as his words...property.

views? thoughts? ideas? it is not bdsm. it is not soley sexual. it is about owning another human knowing they have no say so and they are property. quite....different. basically what i hear is, they give up their right to exist to have another run their lives how the other person chooses to. they do mention bpd in 3 types of submissives.

unfortunately, this is the very thing i have spent most of my life trying to get away from. so i dont understand it. i may not ever understand it.

but it will make a nice thread to exchange ideas and views. please read the entire site before making a decision. im quite interested in this and how someone could come to this decision about their own lives. im curious why its so foreign to me, altho i know why. to me, it feels that i would be annihilated as myself, the thing i have fought against all my life. i can see how safe it might seem to another....altho its a false safety idea imho*.

he calls it internal enslavement. i am curious why someone would need this as their lifestyle. why the need to be property to another and controlled by another so deeply. i have read into the other side...the need to control another and own another. i havent looked into this side. i do think my mom and my H are the ones who would love to own a slave. it would be their ideal. unfortunately, they have me. and they hate it.

i really look forward to any views or ideas on this.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:02 pm 
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Jody, you need to leave me alone! I don't know if you are unaware of the fact that I have been working hard to avoid you (and only you) so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and not assume that you are deliberately posting this as a means to annoy me in ways you have not been able to in the past. If you can't relate, just shut up! I provided information from one article on this website that was related to people with BPD and then you assumed I wouldn't mind that you posted the link (which I never posted and don't even know how the link was discovered when what I had done was cut and paste an article) and make it all about enslavement? You apparently read that I did not want to open the topic for discussion and then rudely brought it up in public, mentioning my name in your post. If I was raised as my father's property, what is that to you? I want you to leave me alone just as I have left you alone, even when you inserted your unwelcome comments in a different thread I started and started your own thread in order to discuss something I brought up that had nothing to do with you. Your opinion is not something I seek from this board and I want nothing to do with you!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:08 pm 
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For anyone else reading this thread, this is the true link to the article I had cut and pasted and as you will see it is not about enslavement: http://www.enslavement.org.uk/troubled

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:29 pm 
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Location: Reality ~ It's a great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there!
Also, one of the things the article raises is the following:

Quote:
Whereas an adequate, relatively stable early environment in a family with "goodness of fit" will likely give rise to the healthy adult submissive, an inadequate, unstable early environment with "poor fit" will give rise to a more or less troubled adult.

It is my opinion that this last group tends to be troubled by the spectrum of personality disorders in the cluster defined as borderline, narcissistic or histrionic personality disorder. Now, not every woman who has borderline, narcissistic or histrionic personality disorder is also a submissive; this is a critical point. I believe that some submissives do exhibit the life problems that lead to being diagnosed with those disorders.


For those with enough intelligence to understand this concept, the dysfunction comes from a "poor fit" which is the same as saying it is not a "good fit" for people. If it had been a "good fit" for me, I would not have traits of BPD! I tend to be a people-pleaser and I grew up learning how to be submissive, like my mother. It was the abuse that was the "poor fit" so it has left me "troubled" as an adult.

As far as the other stuff on the website, I have not even read anything beyond this one article I found since I was doing specific research - my search led me to this essay. I can't comment on the other stuff without having done any research in that area. This is just like the spanking thread where Jody has taken off with her understanding of something that was not about her and had to then insert her opinions on the board as a rant of sorts. I have nothing to do with it and I would rather have a discussion with someone whose opinion I value than to waste my time trying to clarify some misunderstanding. This is not about me!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:46 pm 
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I'm feeling pretty troubled by the posting of this thread. For starters, I can't find in the post what it has to do with your recovery.

Moreover, the practice of posting stuff this way feels very uncomfortable to me.

Quote:
denim mentioned this in a CC and i would like to hear views on this and see how mine stack up. this is not about denim but about the idea of this web site in the link and its lifestyle.

So I don't understand, if it's not about someone, why do you have to mention that person who it's not about?

Quote:
she didnt want to do it in a open forum so i was thinking on it anyways and saw where i dont think she would mind if another did it.

If it's not about Denim, why do you mention her again? You seem to be saying she said she didn't want it in an open forum but you believe you somehow know what she really believes and that she wouldn't mind you bringing her and the concept to an open forum. I really don't understand that at all. Moreover, Denim's replies makes it pretty clear how she feels about you bring it here.

Quote:
i really dont know what to think. i cant relate to this. i am so far from a submissive or a need to be dominant that i cant understand it. i crave equality and honesty. i crave respect for who i am. this is the opposite of that.

I'm looking for equality, honesty and respect in the act of posting this thread and cannot find it. Please point it out to me if I've missed it.

I understand that this sort of topic can be highly charged and troubling for you. I understand it could trigger some discomfort for you because you have such strong feelings on the matter.

However, I really think the practice of posting stuff that suggests inferences and implications about values and beliefs of others that may or may not be accurate, naming others and then saying it's not about them... is quite inappropriate on BPDR.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:07 pm 
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I should have included in my post, but will add now, lest anyone wonder... my previous post involves my purely personal opinion. It has no relationship to anyone else's point of view or any opinion held by anyone among the leadership team. I don't know what anyone else has thought or written about such issues, it's just thinking that came to mind when I read the thread.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:58 pm 
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BECAUSE, ibf, i read the link to the site. i also read the entire site. i am so the opposite, and i know anything unbalanced is suspect in me(in everyone) that is why i want to know why im such the opposite, why im not submissive, and what others think as my own thinking is clouded by my past.

has nothing to do with denim at all except she listed the link and i went with the subject of it. one thing Ash has told us to do----if something interests us, never hijack the original thread with our own stuff, to begin a new thread on the subject. which i did.

i want to know about this because of myself and my past. only. believe what you want. i know why i posted it. as i said, it is not sexual. it is about psychological things, had you read any of the site. it goes into our childhoods, family fit due to personalities, and bpd.

perhaps i could have learned how to not fight so much against my family, and learned to be more comfortable with their ideas of me. perhaps i could have learned to let go of my need to fight against my mom and H and allow them their own views.

so lock it, whatever you choose. i know why i began this and i had good reason well within the ROE. maybe i didnt make it clear enough..(right, sure i didnt) but it has only to do with my healing and why i am so (word? ) "unsubmissive". it is not good to be unbalanced and i thought, others who have a diff view could help me with why i am so the other way* on this.

i found it very interesting concerning our inner child and bpd as to this and i couldnt (still cant) understand why i dont "get this".

has nothing to do with anyone but me and any othersviews who wanted to explore the concept or their own feelings about this. i spose i could find the post directing us to do this if we want should i have to search for it. to never put our own stuff in another thread but begin a new one about ourselves" which mine was.

it has a lot to do with my recovery, which i already explained. my own feelings which i need to learn to balance on not being so ----whatever the word is ---unsubmitting. un allowing. un accepting. cant find the mo-fucking word i want.

i should never have said anyones name but i got the link from her post and she specifically said she wouldnt post it in open forum herself. which i got the impression it was ok for others of us to want to discuss it openly and i was not discussing her or a thing about her at all. note..i only gave her credit for the link and the idea to talk about it. nothing further. it was about me. why i was asking. why it bothered me.

but shit, if it causes a huge uproar, forget it. i have no need of a huge pile of bullshit which negates the whole purpose of why i posted and asked for views on the subject.

good freaking grief. i am comfortable with my own reasons i began this. i feel i made it reasonably clear in my first post.

as i have said a zillion times on here, passive aggressive is not my strong suit. had i meant a thing about this i would have posted it quite clearly. i dont play mind games, i dont beat about the bush, i say what i think.

this is what was posted which i took for it was ok for any others interested in it to use the link---""""I considered posting the article elsewhere in order to have discussion about it but I think it is better if I don't open up the topic for discussion myself since it would only open me up for personal attacks. """ esp this part------"""hink it is better if I don't open up the topic for discussion myself""""

obviously i read it wrong and i was not allowed to take a subject from another thread and open it to my own discussion in open. (altho we do that all the time here on the board). and i usually credit the thread with where i got the idea. check back...yes, i do. almost always. why would i not this time? its obvious the thread who the thread was so why be redundant? whats the diff in using a link vs the name?

whatever, i aint arguing this shit with anyone. i have too little mind energy to waste at the moment.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:44 pm 
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I can see you have some reasons for wanting to learn about this stuff.
And I don't think anyone wants to fuss about it here. So maybe it will be best to start from the beginning when you feel up to it.


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