BPDRecovery.com: Forums

In my search for help on the internet I read some of the posts on that other site (not sure if related to this one) and can't understand how they can be so cold toward bp's. Tons and tons of info on there about how to leave your bp spouse, take their kids away, strip them of their parental rights etc. Is there any wonder this illness feels so hopeless? There seems to be more help throwing us under the bus than actually HELPING us. I am a very compassionate person and I can't even imagine being so un-kind to a group of people who didn't ask to the this illness. I know I'm babbling...just makes me really sad/angry.

Hey, Delta. Welcome.

Compared to the experience you've described so far, I think you'd find BPDR a breath of fresh air. We don't get in to what other boards do, although many here have experience with that type and some have pretty strong feelings about it.

We know BPD behaviors can feel quite hurtful. We're here to learn to change them and replace them with effective behaviors that lead to healthy happy living.

If you want to join in the learning and work, just hop on the bus.

Reading what these "spouses" say about us and how they are the "victims" of us etc. has just made me extremely angry. I was feeling a little hopeful before I read stuff on that site and now I feel completely out of control, suicidal, depressed, humiliated and so on. I don't know what to do when I get like this. I feel like I want to hurt someone.

Hi Delta:

When I am feeling so badly, I visit a site at http://www.suicidal.com, which has a lot of resources listed on it, as well as encouragement written by people who have been there.

Of course, if you are feeling actively suicidal, please call 911.

Many people have felt very badly after visiting some of the sites out there dealing with bpd, but remember, those are those peoples' individual experiences = you are not the person in their lives about whom they are writing.

You are your own person, and are now on a board dedicated to recovery-focused support, and the owner, for example, has recovered from bpd and has even written a book about it, (as you can see from the top-left corner of this page, so I hope that you will not continue to despair, because there is all kinds of real hope and also very concrete tools and strategies which help lead to healthy, happy living which really is within your grasp.

Welcome to BPDR and I hope you will continue to post and read here so you can get to know us better and we you. :halo

Best regards,

Candle

I think it's appropriate that a site for those who know folks with BPD (not folks with BPD) isn't about helping those with BPD. Such a site should be a self-help site for those who are there, not a help-this-person-I-know-with-BPD site.

I think it helps to keep in mind that that site is for those folks, not us, and they have their own issues, their own hurts. It's not a case of they are the healthy ones and we are the screwed up ones. It's not that simple.

That said, I suggest, forget about those folks, hang out here and work on your own recovery.

Thank you guys for responding. I just found that site to be very disturbing. I have the desire to learn more about what makes me tick, but the more I read, the more hopeless I feel.
Question for everyone: Do I need to try and get on a med(s) to stablize before I can really start the recovery process? The reason I ask is that in reading about recovery- it seems to be triggering me in a bad way. I am not at all stable right now and I'm not being able to think "positvely" at all. Do most with BPD take meds to stablize? I feel like its only a matter of time before I flip out...

So are you asking whether you should see about starting meds in order to increase the odds of success with recovery work? I think that's hard to answer. Lots of folks here started before, lots started after, all are making progress of some sort in recovery work. It seems to me that if you think meds might help you be more effective right now, then right now is the time to check it out no matter when you plan to start other recovery work. Can you get with a pdoc you have some confidence and get started?

I dont have a doc right now. I called about seeing one and was told either "we don't take patients w/o insurance" or they are 4-5 months out before they can see anyone new.

Many people find meds helpful for recovery, but they aren't an absolute necessity and some do fine without meds at all. So don't let not being able to get meds right away keep you from starting the recovery journey.

I actually used a site similar to the one you read (linked from bpdcentral.com but is technically on its own domain called facingthefacts.net, I think) back before I had regular access to therapy or meds. I used it insofar as I was able to focus on behaving in a much more socially acceptable way. Sure I got outright livid reading some things - "all BPs are evil incarnate" is not an easy thing to accept. But the truly wonderful news is that ... we don't need to accept it!

Just cuz someone says something about us - especially in a generalization like that - does NOT make it true. It's a reflection about how angry, hurt, confused, terrified they are inside rather than an accurate portrayal of who we are as unique individuals. Right?

Stabilizing meds do help. I won't lie. They've helped me tremendously. But no, I don't think they're a requirement. I think they make the recovery process easier. With a more stable baseline, less extremes between emotions, it's easier to focus on the tools and things underlying the emotions.

How many places did you call? Is there any hope for insurance on the horizon? What about public services - county mental health clinics, etc.?

It depends upon which forums you go into over there.....there are lots of people over there who have suffered years and years of abuse from the people they loved the most and put their faith in. I believe the posts that "demonize" bpd's are referring to those bpd's that continue to make excuses for themselves and abuse their loved ones, rather than face their own issues and get well.

There is plenty of love and compassion over there for the victims of the bpd illness - it just depends on where you look. There is a huge, long thread titled "Post a prayer for your bpd here" and all of the posts are sincere prayers that they're bpd SO, or child, or parent receives the healing, comfort and love they deserve as human beings, who were afflicted with a condition (bpd) beyond their control.

On the other hand, some have endured years of abuse and they are STILL getting blamed for it all by their bpd.....not all sufferers of bpd have the insight and desire to change themselves.......some will always blame others for their problems and continue to abuse the ones who love them the most.

Kudos to everyone on this board for taking personal responsibility!!

You raise some good points, BellaBic. Yet I believe the focus on leaving has caused many unnecessary divorces and family destruction. Paul even said as much about people misinterpreting and misusing his writing about that in Eggshells. And yet it still goes on. Some here, including myself, have lost the loves of our lives because they encountered material and groups like that. After we began recovery and learned to take responsibility for the damage done and make dramatic behavior changes.

And it's a terribly sad point you raise about how many SOs and families still suffer. I suspect many, or most who suffer BPD will never get to the point of getting the help they need to move on to living healthy happy lives. I certainly wish there was something we could all do to reduce that load of pain in this world.

Thanks for your post.

d'ja ever think, IBF, that perhaps it was best for the partner to leave? (talking in general, not in your specific case): many people at FtF have co-dependency tendencies (or other serious issues) and don't see it until the relationship is over. I can't tell you how many people have said, "i hate what I went through in the relationship, but because of it I realise I have my own issues and I'm a better person for going through this and can work on my self now and get healthy." It took the shock and pain of the relationship ending for these people to heal. They go through hell - as do those who are left, fairly or not - but are better for it in the end. That's no small gift.

delta, fwiw, Lamictal has been very helpful for me. It's indicated in the treatment of BPD, tho as an off-label use (it's an anti-convulsant). It helps balance the mood swings so that I'm stable enough to put the tools to good use.

Yes, I'm sure it's often for best. However painting it with such broad strokes sweeps up those who would do well in place. Kinda like saying everyone with BPD needs to have ECT, CBT, DBT, and whatever or they won't ever be healthy or happy. We'd do a lot of damage both to those who choose that route and don't need it, and do react badly to some portions of it, AND those who are put off by the strategy but DO NEED it. It's an important and necessary strategy and resource. I simply wish the ardor and zeal that come from flaming could be invested more effectively, like in aiming. Zeal kills. Zealots should be strung up by they toenails. Or hugged till they pop. Not that I have any strong feelings about this or anything.

When someone who is a professional marketer or sales person launches a crusade to save all from the ravages of anything, by convincing them to take action that is going to hurt people... then that person is selling pain. Period. It's the same logic that got us into Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Exactly the same. People, we have a problem. I and only I know how to fix it. Give me your children so I can send them to die and kill even more other children and then they'll come around and see it our way. And don't mess with Texas.

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
(((IBF))) I was sooo ready to respond to Bellabic's post....but I could NEVER have said it so eloquently!!! :hi5

I'm hoppin on the bus!

um, ok, IBF, I think you're painting it a little with broad strokes yourself - using vivid B&W paint.

Have you spent much time there recently? I'm not talking the old Nook, but FtF. If not, I kinda feel like telling you what I told someone over there who had some choice (not-so-nice) words about us all over here at BPDR:



And not everyone is as mean-spirited as that member can be. There are some truly wonderful folk there.

Is the vitriol painful? Yes. Can it be unfair and reactionary? Yes. Do they sometimes ignore their OWN contribution to the problem? Yes. Yes. Yes.

But is there growth? Yes! Are there those there who seek to discourage the nastiness? Yes! Are the people there hurt and struggling and seeking happiness just like us and are at varying levels of recovery just like us? Yes! And are they, being human, just like us, who are human, too? YES!! Sometimes I wish both BPDR and FtF could see that more clearly through the rhetoric from both sides.

No one wins in a war of Us vs. Them, which is a fight more vicious than any our political leaders have embroiled us in. That's the war that needs railed against, this inability to see the other as just like us.

Marni,

I have just deleted a long passionate reply. I'm not gonna write anymore on this subject. Yes, actually I have been there recently. Made me hurl and I left within an hour.

In the past six weeks, there have been two new members come here apparently directly from that board... and make their first post about some nasty (as described in this thread) stuff going on at that board. In the first case, it looked a LOT like trolling. That person disappeared when we stopped talking about it. This first post looks a lot like that one. Not so apparent in this case, but it always feels a little odd when that's a new member's first post.

I am deeply hooked on this matter and I'm gonna go play with my stacks of bills and filing and be mindful about setting them on fire.

Predatory encouragement of or support for vitriol for profit is not a good thing no matter what else goes on around it.

Support our troops. Don't mess with Texas.

HI Delta and welcome~

When first faced with my diagnosis and therefor the end of my denial, I felt much like you express; hopeless, useless, hurt, sad and anger at the postings of many who were dealing with a suffering person with BPD.

I ordered and read as many books about people with BPD that I could find. Some left me a wreck; crying, hurt and still hopeless. Others helped, soothed and let me know there were therapies, medications, different behaviors and thinking that could help with my life AND the life of my H as well as others around me.

I have been on the receiving end of some that suffer still with their own BPD behaviors. When I understood what I had put many others through, I cried - a lot. Looking back, that was so healing for me on so many levels. When I stopped believing that I was a 'victim' and started to take personal responsibility for my behaviors and actions, I could see how being stuck in the whole 'victim mentality' gave me a lot of justification for behaving so badly.

My T taught me that it is 'courtesy and respect' for ALL, especially myself. I can certainly understand how reading the vitriol on another site can be so painful, and yet, the person posting there is human. I cannot judge them and/or what they might possibly be going through, or even where they are at in their own recovery.

Sometimes, leaving is a necessary thing to do for one's own self protection and growth. Sometimes, it takes losing a loved one for someone who suffers with BPD to recognize it. (I damn near 'lost' my H. And that woke me up!)

So, Delta, here's to your hoppin' on the bus!!

Hey, IBF, don't mess with Idaho!!

Idaho --- home of our latest top secret weapon prototype....

The Nuke-U-ler Smart Tater Cannon!!! Yeah!

Successor to the Nuke-U-ler Stoopid Corn Catapult, obviously designed by Nebraska Democrats. Shoot, it couldn't hit the broad side of New Jersey!







Support our troops. Don't mess with Texas.

("and not just f'd up newbies or treatment-resistant long-timers")
Oceanheart: Its that kind of comment that started this post.

Guardedheart and IBF: Thank you for making me feel welcome. It means a lot. As for my origonal post on this subject I just want to say: I actually saw that site for the first time 3 years ago when I was first diagnosed. It was partly because of that site that I stayed in denial about my illness for the the next 3 years. Eventualy I realised that I had to face the truth of my illness regardless of what others thought of it or me if I wanted to get better. As for that other site, well, maybe it (the site) affected me so bad because my x-H did leave me because of my illness recently. So I do understand the mentality over there, I just wish that they could understand that our illness is not something we WANT to have so that we can torment people. And THAT is was upsets me- that they act as if we chose this lifestyle, that we get some kind of enjoyment out of feeling the way we do and hurting others. Which we all know is far from the truth. But I am sorry for their pain. [/i][/quote]

delta... yeah. I can relate. The love of my live, after leaving me at age 16 in 1962, found me again in 2003. We married in 2004. She got on that site and read Eggshells in April, 2006 the month I was Dx'ed by a grad student, my daughter who she pumped for information and diagnosis. She filed divorce papers one month later. Detached and boogeyed word for word the way they suggest. I haven't seen her since.

Yes, I have a thing about that crap and I make no apologies about it. Still, resources who feed on "victim" pain do provide a useful and helpful and important service. But a lot of collateral damage results from the approach. There are all kinds of victims. Victims of victims. Ain't that speshul?

Ocean's head and heart are absolutely in the right place, Delta. I think you read stuff into the quote that wasn't there. She's one of our strongest and most compassionate thinkers. Crazy as all get out, however. She likes to swim with sharks off the coast.

I need to take a break from this thread and topic for a while.





Don't mess with Texas.

I say this in the kindest possible way: so what? What others think of us as individuals, us as a group, the disorder itself has absolutely no bearing on our recovery efforts. Our recovery or stagnation in disordered thinking doesn't hinge on if "they" think we're saints or sinners. We can't control "them" and wishing for equality or fairness or a change of heart on behalf of others isn't going to make a darn bit of difference to how we choose to live our lives.

"What you think of me is none of my business."

We can't control other people's actions. We can't force them to do anything. Nor can we control other people's thoughts or force them to see things the way we do. The only things over which we have ANY control are our own thoughts and actions.

Their Stuff / Thoughts / Actions <~~||~~> My Stuff / Thoughts / Actions

Two completely separate things. I can only control the stuff I can control.

More info on separation of stuff here.

Ash-
I know I can't control anyone else's thoughts. It has taken me a long time to come to terms that I HAVE a problem. I'm getting there. I'm trying not to see everything in black and white. So like I said- I DO understand that "they" are hurting. I know that I shouldn't take what is said over there personal- but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt me. I'll get over it.

I appreciate everyones insight on this. I think this board will be super helpful as I recover. I need to see others opinions- that's something that was hard for me most of my life.
Thank you all.

Delta, I WAS one of those f'd up newbies not too long ago (despite the nice things (((IBF))) said - and always says, dear man), ask anyone here. Now I'm doing really really well, and it's due to BPDR, but also to FtF that I've come so far. I've been an involved member there for almost a year and have developed a thick skin. It hurt at first because I took it personally.

But a funny thing happened: as I began to get stronger in myself (what has been called the Genuine self), it stopped mattering what some people thought. Today I know who I am. it took me a long time to get here, but I did. I know who I am and no one else's words can take that away from me.

Also, as I got to see myself as a complex person, I could see others that way, too. As I became able to deal in a healthy way with my intense feelings, I began to understand - and empathise - with others' intense feelings. Then the feelings began to get less and less intense and my reaction to other people began to get less and less intense.

Alright, I've taken it off-message enough, sorry. I just wanted to try to let y'all to know they're not all that way over there, just like I try to let em know we're not all that way over here. And in their defense, the folk who run the board and the other compassionate members really are trying to move it in another direction away from the nastiness (but yeah, some people do like to hang on to their victim stance. There AND here). In our defense, we're amazing folks dedicated to doing the hard work it takes to have "happy, healthy", GOOD lives. Both groups could learn so much about each other from each other if only we all could see... IBF, you're not the only one who gets all fired up wit guns a'blazin!

ps - fwiw, I believe that unfriendly member I mentioned was the one who started the "hoover pride" bs, since it followed soon after the interaction we had over there, which I quoted here. I could be wrong.