BPDRecovery.com: Forums

I'm glad FtF didn't exist back when I was married. My h used to snarl at me, "You have no idea what's it's like having to live with a borderline PSYCHOTIC." He would have had a field day on FtF. I admit that I lurk sometimes on FtF and the mental image that comes to mind sometimes is of the villagers coming down the path with torches.

But my story has an amusing ending. My h divorced me and I was living in a new place, and I was surprised to discover that it felt like a huge cloud had lifted off me. I could actually breathe. My ex-h, OTOH, was amazed to realize that I had not taken all his problems with me. His solution was to crawl into a bottle of vodka. I found out a couple months later that he sought counseling and was diagnosed with BPD. Did I laugh.

I sometimes think about that while reading posts on FtF. The line between the "designated patient" and the "long suffering non" can be blurry indeed.

IBF - LOL about the I-da-ho taters...AND the pic~

Delta, you've gotten a lot of great responses here, I think.

BPDR was central to my recovery as well. I saw an excellent T who taught me about DBT. I went on some different meds, which helped A LOT, but now I am slowly transitioning off.

Have you read Ash's book, "Putting the Pieces Together"? I recommend it highly. It is a book that will leave you with much hope and a sense of purpose towards recovery.

I also recommend this book: "Don't Let Your Emotions Run Your Life" by Scott E. Spradlin, MA as well as the workbook that goes with it.

Ann, my H USED to say much what your X said to you. Hah! The line was fuzzy and blurred at times, yes.

But interestingly enough, the more I worked on ME and MY recovery, the more I changed behaviors of the past, the more my H responded in kind. It was/is amazing! We went to therapy together for awhile. My H decided to "stick with me" because I was doing lots and lots of hard work. Sure, I've fallen a few times, but I get right back up. My goal: "happy, healthy living".

Looking back now at some of my past behaviors, wow, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I think that those who are in relationships with those who are suffering and acting out due to BPD can be very angry and post some pretty nasty stuff.

Also, what they post says a whole lot more about them than it does the one that they are posting about. Ya know?

Here on this Board, I am reminded to focus on me, my "stuff". That is the only person I can change: ME.

I just feel the need to clarify my own story: I exhibited no BPD behaviors that I can recall at that time. My h was slinging invectives only out of his own rage and acting out. I was quiet, submissive, and almost beaten into the ground. The only thing I had working against me was that I had been given a diagnosis in the past and he hadn't (yet).

I think in general that I would rather be the one with the diagnosis than the self-righteous one who believes that they are a saint saddled with a mental patient. It is obviously impossible for many of them to have any focus on themselves whatsoever.

Hi guys. I’m Skip from over at FtF. I hope its OK to join in.

I’m the sponsor at FtF, but more importantly, I love a women (and her children) with BPD. We’re apart now for 2 years. I have invested a lot of myself into learning about the disorder and what happened to us. I love her dearly and I would do anything to help – but, for now, it is best that she work through things herself. In my minds eye, she is as beautiful as the day I met her.

She is the most wonderful women I ever met, she is the mother of 2 children I care deeply about. Our little family endured untold devastation. Everyone suffered and now we are all trying to heal ourselves.

I can imagine that it is very difficult to read some of the angry things said at our site. I think it might help to understand that, like you all, many of us have issues too. This is often how it manifests in the early stages of our recovery. Unfortunately, some of us get stuck there. But those of us that have worked through it do learn that “blaming ain’t healing”.

We have to go through a “revalidation” stage to get enough air to re-inflate our self esteem. Once we do, then we can start the process of recovering ourselves from a difficult relationship, and in some case, finding the strength and insight to be a more constructive partner.

I’m sure that is near impossible to see if you stepped into our board an into the line fire of someone in an angry stage.

We live on the other side of this equation:

Their Stuff / Thoughts / Actions <~~||~~> My Stuff / Thoughts / Actions

Our solution is the same as yours. It’s not where any of us started, it’s where we are trying to go. I think we just have a different path. The one thing I have learned is that having good emotional health, takes a lot of strength.

I greatly admire what is done here. This is wonderful site.

Skippy

Glad to see you, Skip. You are more than welcome. As I mentioned in our PM over on FtF, I'm glad that the board has turned more towards a recovery focus. We certainly understand anger over here on BPDR. It can just be hard to understand that just because we have BPD, it doesn't mean everyone on FtF hates us. The My Stuff/Your Stuff ideal is what we strive for. The agreement of not taking things personally. I think all of us are a work in progress.

Again, welcome to BPDR!

Oh, don Miguel.
Stand with me in my moment of pain.

Help me keep my thoughts and words impeccable.
Help me not take any of this personally.
Help me do my very best at this and at all other times.



I think I'd better take a break for the rest of the day.
Will try again tomorrow. Keep on smilin'
.

Hi Skip!

Well, there is proof that not everyone on BPDCentral are a-holes, eh? (Black and white, all or nothing kinda thinking, yes?)

I really appreciate your post.



Because my H and I are still married and together, I have watched my own H deal with his own struggles for his mental and emotional stability in our relationship. I understand what you are saying above. I have had to learn how to come from a place of understanding instead of blaming. A place of love instead of anger.

At this point, I wouldn't take another's angry, blaming post to heart or personally. After all, it is just the stage where that particular poster is at.

Honestly, I haven't been to FtF for a long, long time.

IBF~

I can understand your pain in this. I read "Tin Man's" book, cried throughout, and threw it on the floor when I was done.

I felt the same way about "Walking on Eggshells" for a long time. UNTIL I've had to deal with a Sis who is likely BPD with sociopath tendencies. With her, it truly is walking on eggshells. I've observed (as a Non) her 'acting out' and destructive behaviors. It is truly 'eye opening' to be on the other side!

My H made a choice to stay with me. I observed the damage that HE had to overcome. How he had to work to revalidate himself and find that equilibrium to become a more empathetic, loving, constructive partner. Yes, he did go through an angry, blaming stage. Yes, I was on the receiving end of some pretty abusive behaviors during that time.

The most important thing that the two of us had to learn was to forgive ourselves and each other.

The "love of your life" had a choice as well. My H didn't leave me immediately after reading the book and after calling my MSis for insight. The responsibility for her leaving is, well, hers not a book's or anyone on FtF.

Thanks, GH. I completely understand and truly appreciate your comments. I view the situation in a very similar way.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to make my points about this issue clearly. Way too much Emotion Mind for me just now.

And so, I have just given the snip to a really powerful and emotional post because at the moment I'm speechless and unable to stay here and engage in constructive dialog on this thread.

Maybe another time.

Bill, out of everything Skip said, that's ALL you heard? YOU, who is a person so delicately and fundamentally in tune with everyone's pain and often the source of deep comfort to so so so many? Your pain must truly be so strong that it temporarily blocks the finest qualities in you. For that, I am sad this whole topic has been so hard on your heart. Breathe, breathe . . . but then listen, please? Listen. Everybody please just listen - not to me, but what's being said, to what's real.

Healing and growth is ALWAYS A PROCESS. FOR EVERYONE. SORRY I'M SHOUTING! What would any of us feel like if someone dropped in on us at one particular unflattering moment in our lives and judged us only from that moment - from that moment on for forever?

We all had/have our bad moments, whether or not there was someone there to witness them - or pay the price for them - and we all deserve the grace of being allowed to have them and then move on, to get better, to become a better person. If it takes wallowing in victimhood - which is something people here at BPDR are no less guilty of to some extent than those at FtF, don't deny it, I don't deny I've done it - if it takes doing that for a little while, then so be it. SO BE IT. Healing makes its own schedule. Who are we to judge that the timetable's too long?

Please don't judge someone based on the shallow glance you catch of them, out of the corner of your eye as you speed by.

Obviously this is getting personal for me, and for that reason I'm bowing out as far as responding goes. I don't think I can <~~||~~> separate my own stuff anymore.

I was thinking of asking the same of ... whoever.

OK, one more try. A purely personal viewpoint, by the way. Unrelated in any way to views of others at BPDR.

I am not judging or being critical of those who spew the vitriol as victims. I feel total compassion for those who have been hurt by this madness. No, I am thinking of the people who take advantage of their pain for personal and professional gain.

People who pick up Eggshells and go to Nookieland are desperate for help. It's so sad and awful to see and feel their pain. These people are confused, hurt, terrified, alone, lost. They are desperate for an answer that can bring peace.

What they find is pitched directly at their pain. It is pitched as The Way Out of their hurt.

(btw, there are nearly identical online support groups, who take exactly the same strategy for "victims" of narcissists, bi-polars, lesbians and gays. Exactly the same design!!!!!)

So the hurting souls buy it. They see no other solution. Having read apparent expert opinions that this is the path to peace, they call their attorney and they vent their anger. Pretty much at the same time.

No, I have little or no criticism of these poor sad people. They are victims of the solution just as much as they were victims of the cause. No, my problem is NOT with those who, thus encouraged, spew their vitriol at us.

My problem is with those who convince them this is the right and only way to be rid of the pain. With people who are professional marketing specialists, who pose as experts and counselors.

My problem is that people who KNOW and ADMIT PUBLICLY IN WRITING that their preferred solution has been widely misinterpreted and led people to inappropriately terminate relationships and marriages.. when they KNOW and ADMIT publicly that their preferred solutions have led desperate people to destroy families needlessly... then having known and admitted these things publicly, they continue to promote the idea knowing exactly what will happen to the next hundred sad terrified victims who encounter the stuff they sell to make a nice living.

And I have a very big problem that these people continue to knowingly cause this collateral damage. And call it "revalidation".

IMHO If it looks like crap and it smells like crap there's a good chance that it's crap.

And to draw a contrast between the vitriol peddlers and sites like this and others who help us naughty buggers take personal responsibility for our thoughts, emotions and behaviors... here's what I did to change the mood when that last post was done...

Went to iTunes and flipped on a free comedy channel... so Rodney Dangerfield is accompanying this post, and .... did an online tax estimate which was so nice that I did the return for free.

As James Brown sez, with his unique eloquence... "I feel good, na-na-na-na-na"!

IBF, I think you're giving too much power to a book. If someone is going to be so swayed by a book that tells them to destroy their family, my guess is that it wouldn't have taken much to walk away. I also think it's unfair that you're so willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The book also shows how to set boundaries, how to validate your partner, and other constructive things. And yes, at times, the best thing for a partner is to leave. Not saying that's your case, IBF. I think you're blaming the book more than it deserves to be blamed.

Stop Walking on Eggshells has helped me take a critical look at my own behaviors, as well as helping me deal with my mom and my aunt, two lovely ladies that very likely have undiagnosed BPD.

I'm not trying to change your mind, btw. Just giving a different perspective.

IBF wrote:



"Relationships are the blood of life".

And yet, I have a Sis who stays way too long in a relationship with someone who suffers with NPD. It becomes so destructive for her. It has really taken a toll on her life. I have 'radically accepted' at this point that she will most likely not ever have a "happy, healthy" relationship with anyone. I've let her know that I do not see her as a victim.

My H read the same books as your x-wife. He chose not to leave. It does hurt my heart to know that the love of your life made the decision to leave you.

Perhaps there is a separation of stuff of the written words, websites, and books stuff to your x-wife's stuff?

Books, website <~~||~~> x-wife

After all, it was her choice. She most likely needs to work on herself. She has her own stuff. A book, a website and talking to your daughter did not make her leave.

Do not think for one minute that it wasn't a ton of work for both my H and I. I did some pretty horrible, some bad, some not so bad things. It literally broke my H's heart. HE was in a lot of pain having to watch ME destroy not only myself but our relationship as well. There were times that we did have to seperate for a while. Yes, he did go through his own stages of recovering from the destructiveness that I had vomited on him, our home, our family. Yes, he had his own issues to deal with.

Quite frankly, I have a ton of compassion for those who are living with someone who suffers with a PD. Someone writing a book may get a lot of healing from doing so. FtF is a place of comfort, soothing and refuge for many, I suspect.

IBF, maybe it is time to forgive?

I really appreciate the thought and caring you all have put into your posts. It means quite a lot to me.

It looks like I have failed once again to be clear about my thought. That's par for the course for me. And it's time for me to let it rest.

I do believe that the site and the book are important and valuable tools for many who need help badly. For that I appreciate them.

I understand fully the separation of issues about the book and site and XW's decision making. Have been clear about that a long time.

I forgave her a long time ago. Within a few weeks in fact. Not sure how fully I forgave, but I think it's pretty complete.

I don't want to throw out either the baby or the bath water.

I'm simply looking for honesty, integrity, and responsibility from those who claim to be serving in the interest of others, trying to help them with their pain. I want them to make every effort to limit or eliminate the unintended creation of pain from their own work when they know it's present.

And I don't see that. That's ok. I don't need to right all the wrongs I see in the world. I don't need to see the right stuff everywhere, just where I choose to do my work. I see it here daily. For me, that's one of the primary differences between the two resources. To me, they are vastly different. And so I'm glad for this place and for all of you and for the opportunity to do the work I need to do.

IBF, it seems to me you are making unsubstanciated allegations, against, well, not only do you not back up the allegations, you aren't being clear who is is you are alleging is doing something you think is wrong. You've had some very stong negative language, and it's not clear who it is you are talking about with the language. You now even say, not the website we've been talking about, not the book (or rather it's authors) that some in this thread have been talking about. You earlier said, not the people who post on that message board.


But who is doing this? Who are these "people"? You give no clue. And futhermore seem to say that, no, you don't mean the people we've (generically, not individually) talked about in this thread. So, then, why bring it up there if these anonymous unspecified people who you have a problem with don't have any connection to what we are discussing?

I do recognize you said it's time to let it rest, and you don't have to answer the above. You can take those as questions to think about, not questions to answer for me or anyone else. But I do think it's appropriate for me to share my thoughts on this.


I see this as asking too much. Making a reasonable effort, yes. But making every effort is owning other people's stuff. If someone twists what I say, that is there stuff, not mine. There is a limit to how much I am responsible for others understanding my words correctly. I can't control others. And furthermore, when writing publically, not everyone will understand something the same way, and writing to be clear to one set of people can mean being misunderstood by another set of people. To expect that I should be able to eliminate anyone twisting my words due to their own emotional baggage is unrealistic. All I can do is try to be clear in my writing.

OK, going to let this rest. I did just want to clarify what I meant by:



Time to forgive the 'others' whose postings/writings/books have caused you pain. Most likely, they were in a lot of pain themselves.

(Kinda like the road rage - "perhaps that woman/man driving on my a** just have to pee really, really bad...")

Hi, all ~
As a parent of a daughter with BP tendencies, I used to be here more often, reading mostly - and posting some - and I've missed participating.
So please forgive me dropping in unannounced like this.


I notice this quite a bit, especially among what are referred to as 'chosen' relationships - significant others for the most part. (Folks who have a family [of origin] member with a personality disorder have the blessing and curse of the task of finding both sides of the coin because of the dynamic, y'know? I'm thinking it's not as easy to say, "There's something wrong with you; fix it or we're through" when it's a parent or child or even sibling that suffers with BPD. Perhaps one has more of an inclination to wonder how 'things' got the way they are or to self-analyze when a family dynamic is realized to be unhealthy? Not always, but the likelihood is there.)


ibfuddled, I respect that you've stepped away from this topic for the time being but I wanted to let you know that I think I understand what you mean by this...

thanks in advance for letting me be a part of the conversation,
~ jr

A while back, I (and BPDR) was accused of trying to form a cult and entice people into a form of groupthink - a bunch of "yes men" basically.

To some degree, I would agree that yes, I do want people here who believe in the tools and the goals of healthy, happy living. If that's a form of groupthink, so be it. The theory that "it's a good, solid, healthy goal so that makes groupthink / mob mentality okay" can be a very slippery slope, though. After all, who is the arbiter of good taste, of morality, etc?

I think most people would believe it's unlikely that the "5/4/10 Tools" mindset is likely to do terrible harm to others, right? The saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" exists for a reason. Pretty much everything can be weaponized and there are many folks who've identified so strongly with some of the concepts put forth in some of the self-help books that they've turned those concepts into a rally cry for a form of lynch mob.

While the intent may not be to bring direct harm to others the way a literal lynch mob would, and while those involved may genuinely believe that their goal is just and moral (to free themselves from a harmful situation), many times the end result is just as harmful - a form of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

There have been, over the years, many who've passed through these halls at BPDR and have tried to use the Tools as weapons or sheilds.

"I can be mean to you because it's not my responsibility if you feel hurt."

"I can say whatever I want as long as I mean it / am impeccable with my words."

"I can be a complete dickhead in the name of 'calling you on your behaviour'!"

I'd like to think that we do a fairly good job of nipping that sort of crap in the bud. That we don't allow people to get away with weaponizing the recovery tools around here. (I'm sure someone will let me know if/when we're not.)

During my time - oh so many years ago - at The Nook (which no longer exists, btw), that a similar weaponization was underway. There were people who had been so hurt by the person in their lives with Borderline (especially, as JR points out, in the Chosen relationships) that they used "Leave now! Get out while you can!" as their rally cry to all who dared enter. They were in the pendulum swing where they had reached a polar end of the spectrum where there was nothing even remotely resembling value in staying anywhere near someone with BPD and, as such, they made it their mission to warn everyone they could to flee at the first sign of Borderline simply because they were so horrified by the thought of someone else possibly suffering even an iota of the hell they themselves went through.

I think that part of ANY recovery process is the pendulum swing - from one extreme to another. We see it in BPD recovery all the time. We see a person go from having no boundaries whatsoever to having terribly strict, rigid, harsh boundaries once they've learned about them. It takes a while for anyone to learn how to settle into the middle ground, to stabilize, to get into the grey areas.

Likewise, I think the same holds true for those at NON-BPD boards. My most fervent hope is that people who end up in the "Run now! Flee while you can!" mode will ultimately settle down and recognize that every situation is unique, that each person must decide for themselves, no two relationships are exactly alike, that a unilateral decree of "cut & run" can never be applied to all NONs.

Some people get caught up in that rally cry. Newbies can be especially susceptible to rally cries. When a person is lost, struggling, confused and they enter a place they've believe will support them as they try to make sense of the world around them, if/when they are told - from virtually every direction - that the ONLY / BEST solution is to end the relationship, run for the hills, get out while the gettin's good, it can be very difficult to resist. After all, this is a place of support and people who've been around longer are telling them to get out. The groupthink is telling them very loudly and quite forcefully that they MUST end the relationship and a person in a very vulnerable, unsteady, uncertain position is quite likely to acquiesce to such strong assertions.

Please know that I am not advocating staying in an abusive relationship or running off at the first sign of trouble! I am pointing out that it was quite common (in my experience) for these types of things to happen. That people get caught up, listen to the loudest voices, grasp at straws when they are despeate.

When we look at those who come to BPDR, read the book, learn the tools and try to incite rally cries of their own ("it's not my stuff!"), I really do hope that we're doing an adequate job of nipping that weaponization in the bud. I hope that we are not substituting one thing for another; rather that we are helping people see and learn and live a middle ground that is unique and best for them & their particular situations.

If I thought for a moment that people were using the words of "Putting the Pieces Together" to hurt other people, to bash others over the head, to end relationships, to dump or abandon people in the name of "The Tools" or because "the book talked about it" I would most certainly step up and try my best to set the record straight! That each situation is unique. That the book/board does not advocate staying in abusive relationships NOR does the book/board advocate cutting out at the first sign of trouble. That ending a relationship is a very serious step that should NOT be taken lightly or in haste. That each person is ultimately responsible for their own actions.

When a NON is confused and they are told "Cut & run NOW!" because a section of a book discusses a Chosen relationship exit strategy and because the associated discussion forum provides a Leaving room, is there any responsibility of the book's author(s) / board's admin(s) to step up and clear the air?

If someone or a group of people is using words out of context to provide the basis for a rally cry to end relationships (effectively harming others), isn't it morally 'wrong' to allow such abuses and misuses to continue without fervent efforts to minimize the damage?

I know there are more than a couple of therapists out there in the real world who are amazed that BPDR works at all, let alone as well as it does. I certainly don't claim to be the End All, Be All of BPDR. (Not by a long shot!) I do think, however, that there is one aspect of BPDR that makes it unique in the online mental health community. I would say that it is because the founder remains present. (Yes, that's me.) I'm not saying that the place would fall apart without me (even though my ego is screaming "of course it would!) I'm saying that I think there's something to be said for retaining the continuity of vision over the years.

Story time ...

A few years back, Charles Schwab (the actual man) retired from his company and handed the reigns over to a well-vetted, qualified replacement. When "Chuck" was in charge, Schwab had the highest customer survey scores in the industry and the company was an industry leader. Within something like 18 mos of Chuck's departure, the company had dropped to about 30th place or something equallly disgraceful.

Chuck's replacement had thought that some cost-cutting measures could be implemented to make Schwab more profitable but the cuts adversely impacted the quality of service and clashed with the corporate message: "We listen." As a result, Chuck came back to Schwab to man the helm and the company has once again returned to leader-status under Chuck's direct supervision and guidance. Chuck has kept the company focused on the vision and goals that make it fantastic.

When I look at other online mental health communities, there are very few (so few that I can't think of a single one) where the original founder is still an integral part of the day-to-day functions. As such, I really believe the communities with absentee founders are suffering and the communities are adrift, subject to the ebbs and flows of the random participants, the tidal patterns pulling it this way and that, no single clear voice of "This is what we're all about," no designated arbiters-for-that-community to say "We won't tolerate that" or "This is unacceptable." No strong leadership to nip rally cries in the bud, to put a stop to lynch mobs, to pull crusaders aside until they're able to see the grey before they have a chance to adversely influence others more susceptible & vulnerable.

So while their book or board may be providing reasonable assistance and support to 80% of their users, what of the 10% who are being done a (sometimes grave) disservice by the remaining 10% who have diverged from the original vision of the materials? Do they no longer matter? Is it a matter of "the greater good" and "sacrifices must be made"? Is it morally irresponsible to allow the words intended for good to be manipulated into weapon-form to bludgeon others and destroy relationships?

It is not my goal to stir the shit-pot or cast aspersions against the leaders or original founders of any other online community. I cannot stress that strongly enough!

Since it seemed so many people did not understand what IBF was saying, it is my hope that my comments can provide some illumination.

Yes, Ash... these were the issues and questions I was trying to raise. And I like that you added the point that all of us in recovery have a responsibility to make sure that we are not using recovery resources and strategies inappropriately and causing even more pain as a consequence of our recovery work. From the newbie to the author to the network chairman, we all share this responsibility.

Sadly, I've seen too many cases where the adverse effects are known and nothing significant has been done to change them. BPDR is a healthy notable exception to that in my opinion.

As recently as a week ago there was a thread I was watching on FtF with dismay. A newcomer posted regarding difficulties with his wife. His wife's father is dying, which doesn't excuse the things she's been saying, but helps explain what's going on. I watched several people on the board immediately launch an unrelenting campaign to get this guy to end his relationship ASAP. There is one individual in particular who is articulate and persuasive. He seems personally invested in destroying this marriage that he knows so little about. The level of projection is mind-boggling. There seems to be almost a frantic need to see this marriage end, even before her father actually dies. And the newbie seems to be absorbing it. It's impossible to witness that and not feel sad and frightened. I don't see one voice of reason simply saying, "You can have compassion for her situation and create boundaries around what she says to you on the phone." It's all just a lot of ranting about how things will never get better. I have no idea how anyone is helped by that board. It makes my blood run cold.

Ok. My EX was told the same thing ("run like hell!") afer posting on FTF board. So my question is: Why isn't there a forum section here for Non's that need advice? There are a lot of BP's on this site (from what I can tell) that are recovered or recovering. Why not a place here for them (nons) to see that there is hope....Just curious.

Because that would be dividing the world between "us" and "them", and we don't do that.

In a way, we do have a forum for that. Seasons Passes. It's for long term relationships. Anyone is welcome to come talk about and work on relationship issues. We don't restrict participation (there or anywhere else here) to folks with a BPD diagnosis.

We do from time to time get folks here who are here because they know someone with BPD and are looking for information. We are friendly to them. We try to answer their questions in a helpful way. They either get what they want and move on, don't get what they want and move on, or stay and work on their own stuff, as just a board member just like the rest of us, undifferentiated.

Because at BPDR, we don't care about labels such as BPD or NON. If someone wants advice, they'll get the same advice regardless of what their relationship status is.

In fact, any time someone shows up and says "I'm a NON and here's all about my BP, what should I do" we turn the tables back on them with something along the lines of "It doesn't really matter what your BP says, is or does; what matters is what your Genuine Self thinks, feels & believes; we recommend boundaries and we're here to help if you want to practice those and/or if you want to work on your own issues - such as how to deal with irrational behaviour or any of the other things you've mentioned - but we're not going to try to explain your BP to you. That's not our job nor our focus. If you're here, you're here for YOU, not for the BP."

That's pretty much what we've been telling people all along ... for the past 6 or 7 years. Some folks stay and try to practice boundary setting, communication and enforcement. Others hightail it back to a place where they can have answers (right, wrong or indifferent) handed to them on a silver platter. It's certainly much easier to be handed "here, do this" than it is to sit down and really think about "what do I really want to do?"

Some people want a quick fix and seek that out.

Others are interested in and willing to dedicate themselves to self-exploration and healthier living.

We encourage everyone in the latter category to stick around.

FWIW, we also get folks in the former category (those who want a quick fix) who would proudly wear the BPD label. "I have BPD, how do I get my NON to put up with me? How can I manipulate the situation so they don't leave me? What's the secret?" Again, regardless of which label they choose to align themselves with, the answer remains constant: there are no quick, easy, unilateral answers. If you want the RIGHT answer, you have to do the work. If you want a quick, easy answer, close your eyes, throw a dart and leave BPDR out of it.

It took me a second (duh :light ) but I get it- the being "divided" part. Makes sense. Thanks for setting me straight on that.