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I've started a new job that takes me onto the local military bases. It's a stressful job because I have to give presentations to a roomful of students/soldiers, but I'm doing fairly well in using tools to combat the fear, and I'm getting better. I took the job only because of the $$$, tho it's proving very helpful in making me face certain fears and get over them.

The stoopid problem I'm having is that, having grown up on an army base that was controlling and rigid, I used to have a real problem with authority. I was doing much better in not being bugged by it anymore, until . . .

At 5pm the bases play "retreat", which is the bugle call and then the national anthem. Military & civilian alike are supposed to stop and "pay respects". Even if you're driving - you have to pull over. If you're out & about, you have to stop, face the flag or the direction of the music and put your hand at your heart.

I didn't know this my first time on the base last week, and I got honked at by a couple of other cars for still driving around (I couldn't find the classroom and I was late so I was in a hurry).

Really, these little gestures are not horrible things to have to do, and it doesn't take all that much time to do it (and there's noble thoughts behind the ceremony).

Problem is, I don't wanna. Obviously, I'm reacting out of some childish petulance to not be coerced into doing something I don't want to (i.e., perhaps being triggered), but I also have some good, sound, ideological reasons for not wanting to (mostly because in a free country, it is my right to pay respects to it in whatever manner I choose. That's why it's "free". Being compelled to show respect isn't freedom. I have the right to love my country in whatever means I see fit. That's one reason I DO love my country - that right is precious).

Anyway, the obvious answer is "get over it", since my job entails me going on base lots and I need my job (tho I don't like it). Ok, so I'm over it.

Nope, I lied, I'm not "over it". It bugs me. Lots - enough to post. I can't change the situation - 200 years of military tradition aren't going to change for little ole me, nor should they - so how do I change my attitude towards it? Anyone have any helpful hints? Healthy ways to adapt to the situation?

I know DBT talks about doing "what is most effective vs. what is right". I'm not exactly a pro at this skill yet...

I am a caterer. I work events where prayers are said before a meal. I don't believe in public prayer. (I don't really want to get into my specific beliefs, but they are not those of the people I work for.) But it would be impolite of me to interupt their beliefs by continuing to work while they pray. I stand in a corner respectfully, but I don't pray. would looking at stopping your car as a respectfullness of others beliefs help in this situation?

Marni I think I can be frank with you

You can't have your cake and eat it too honey. Working on a military base involves a lot more than just good pay. It involves conforming to the army's ways.

You hate that don't you? The conforming part?

I understand that you realise you can't change these rituals. I understand that you recognise that you have a personal issue with this that is beyond the army's beliefs and practices.

Why don't you try, when this moment of 'respect' occurs each time you're there, using that time to consider your "trigger"? No-one else needs to know that you're using this time as "Marni time" rather than "military time".

Have you read "The Art of Happiness" about the Delhi Lama? He talks about how when the Chinese invaded Tibet the monks were subjected to all kinds of horrific torture. He refers to the Buddhist concept that while there is chaos all around you can still find in your own centre a place of calm. While the Chinese army could subject their bodies to all kinds of harm they could not take away their thoughts, their mind, their centre. And that's how the Tibetan Monks retained their sanity (where most people just couldn't).

I think Marni that perhaps your reaction to these rituals is an acknowledgement that you haven't taken possession of your own mind and centre. You're reacting to someone trying to control you, and in doing so you let go of your own control of yourself. I think that's what this is about. Your sense that you aren't in control (and, just so you know, I SO relate to your experience it isn't funny!).

But you choose to stop your car and turn to the flag. You choose to work at a military base. You choose to be a law abiding member of society with rules and regulations you don't always agree with. You make that choice bc it's the best choice for you (you need the pay right?). You are in control here sweetie.

I do like what Kari said. Another thought. Keep in your mind that you do have a choice. But you can only control you. Instead of "I have to..." think "I choose to because...".

And, after reading Kari's post, I'm thinking, is there a way you can go halfway? Like, stop what you are doing, but don't do the hand over the heart?

To tag along with what Ellen offered, the most effective course of action is to "go along to get along." It's much easier to pull over and inspect your cuticles for thirty seconds than to deal with snotty looks because you didn't bother to stop. It's much more effective to look up at the clouds above the flag and daydream about what you think you might be seeing a la Rorschach ink blot than it is to find a different job of equal pay.

Yes, it sucks to conform but when you're on the base, you're not necessarily in the country you know. The country you and I live in truly is much more free and relaxed and about personal choice. The country as defined within a military base is MUCH different, which you already know.

I'm headed to Singapore and Bali in a few months. I can't offer anything with my left hand. Why? Because in Indonesia where the predominant religion is Islam, they use the left hand to clean themselves during bathroom visits and offering with the left hand is rude (and disgusting!)

I must enter a temple with my arms and legs covered. Why? In Bali where the predominant religion is Hindu it is a sign of respect to the gods.

I will be expected to eat with my fingers in Bali. Why? That's the custom there.

My point is: perhaps looking at driving onto the military bases could be looked at as more of a "trip to a foreign country" than "an extension of the road." The expectations are drastically different once you drive through that gate just as they will be drastically different once I get off the plane.

When you were growing up, these things were forced on you. You're an adult now and you've taken the job to get the money. Everything costs something. In this case, the money you like is costing you the comfort and freedom you've luxuriated in. The wonderful thing is that once you drive off-base, you're back in that free luxury. You have control over that. You can leave at any time. Heck, you can quit your job at any time; it's not like you joined the army or got conscripted and you're stuck for four years 24/7!

As an adult, you have the choice to shift your perspective. Kick that research librarian into gear and have that part of you look at your military base forays as a sociological experiment. Sneak peeks around during the times of retreat. Glance at the soldiers marching in formation. Don't look at it as you did as a child; look at it from your adult, mature perspective. These people willingly gave up their individuality and autonomy to live in these conditions. Pick out a person and make up the back-story in your head.

Or ... you know, see if you can time your visits so you won't be caught out & about during retreat. Heh.

While temped to fool around with the "ridiculous little problem" label, I think I'll change my stripes... ohhhh.. the military in me... and respond sewiouswy.

Coz been there done that. Many many times. With much the same resentment. Does anyone really believe that the Army people who have to stop, salute, etc would prefer doing that to racing to the club for a bucket of beer, which is what they were doing when the recording went off?

So I struggled with the same deal for several years, Air Force guy, all over Asia. The only place they did taps at 5 or 6 or whenever was near Tokyo, and it was my home base though I was usually gone. I took it as an intrusion for all the same reasons you do.

I'll tell ya the solution I ended up with in a minute,but some thoughts for you first.

It's important to remember that discipline as the military practices it really does save lives and pain in combat. I've seen it too often to argue, though I'd love to argue. So taps and revile are forms of discipline... reminders that this is the military and we do things because ranking people say we will and that's all the reason we're supposed to need.

There was a time.. about the time this practice originated, when nobody disagreed with the reasoning about paying respect. I'd argue with the folk who claim that's the reason. Yes, the song "Taps" is a form of respect for the military dead of all time. And that is important somehow. But the practice of playing the tape, or actually playing the horn in the few places they still do that, is to signal it's time for the base operations to start work, or to close down for the day. It tells the civs and others they can go home now. Pretty practical in that regard. Nothing more than an alarm clock,with trappings, really.

Things I used to do when I forgot what time it was and got caught outside at Taps.... stand still, salute, and quietly sing The Beer Barrel Polka. Stop a seconds before the end and look for facial expressions noting my misbehavior.... once or twice I actually forgot and kept on tooling along to some serious stinkface looks.

No, what I did in the end was be mindful about the time and make certain that I was indoors at 5. If I had to wait a few minutes or arrive a few minutes early to avoid the feeling of resentment, that became automatic.

But I think others have touched on some other nice ideas. I would add one... form of Marni time. What a great opportunity to practice Observing and Describing... you can practice O/D ing what you see.. what you hear.. etc.. and best of all, you can observe and describe the physical sensations related to your emotions. You can do a full body scan to get relaxed. You can practice Mindful Breathing for two minutes. You can actually make it a treat for Marni, no matter what anyone thinks it's supposed to be.

My H was in the military (Navy) for 15 years. We didn't live on base but I spent a lot of time there. This post recalls for me a time when I lived in Italy. We used to get on base around 7:30 in the morning. At 8:00 they played taps. Then the American anthem and then the Italian anthem.

Then.....the Marines would come racing down the street. These hunky-looking guys in red and olive green shorts and t-shirts, the first one carrying the flag, would come jogging down and I would focus on their gorgeous bodies! I never felt coerced into stopping for silence - I knew it was a sign of respect and also that we were a small "island of America" within a foreign country. We also paid respect to our host country by playing their national anthem.

As others have said, when you are in another country or culture, you need to play by their rules. You don't have to agree with them or believe it it, but because you are on their soil, you show respect by following that particular custom. It's always your choice. You were not coerced into taking that job. I always thought it was kind of cool, actually, to stop while recognizing our country. And while I was on that Navy base in Naples, I felt proud to be an American. Maybe when you stop and wait for taps to be over, another thing you can think about is how you feel about being an American - there's a lot of things wrong with our country, but also a lot of really great things. Just my thoughts on this. I hope you can figure out how best to deal with the feelings you have!!!! Good luck!

well, it's not really about the military after all...

...it's about the job itself, and I should have seen that sooner, but I was blinded by my habitual knee-jerk reaction to being compelled or coerced or like sarah said, by having to conform to someone else's ways.

I was using the military issue (unconsciously) as a smoke-screen for what's really bothering me.

Y'all had good advice for whiling away the minutes during reveille/retreat, so that's not a problem anymore, I can handle that, so thanks!

What's really bugging me is that I'm upset I have to work after 2 years of not having to do so except occasionally (yes I realise how fortunate I am I could do so). I'm upset I have to work a job I don't like instead of working using my talents (which I was working on developing so I could do it full-time). I'm upset having to listen to other people instead of making my own decisions.

I need to practice some radical acceptance about needing to have $$$ and about having to work. I could also look at it on the positive side - I still have a lot of free time! I have a job! and it pays well! and I can support myself and act responsibly and be autonomous! Those are all very good things. I also am getting good practice facing my fears (public speaking :shock). Plus, I can continue to work on my photography in my spare time - I don't have to give it all up.

I think now that I've realised what the problem really is, I can put the tools to work on it. Any other suggestions about untwisting this in my mind would be appreciated, too.

Thanks again, y'all.

It's wonderful that we have a place like BPDR to come to, talk out our feelings and learn what is really bothering us. I'm glad you know now what the real issue is. Good luck working with the tools!!!! :thumbsup

It seems to me that you have done a pretty good job yourself - and on a lot of levels, too.

Good job Marni!

I live really close now to a military base. At first, I thought the jets flying overhead would bug me. No, instead, I find myself pausing, looking up and wondering WHO is flying that jet? What that person had to sacrifice in his/her own life to learn how to fly those jets?

Gosh, BG, if a whole lotta in shape, military men came running down my road every morning, you can bet I'd be out there, um, 'paying my respects'. Hehehehe...

Too bad I'm not a guy I could make a joke about a flagpole and saluting (sorry IBF) :biggrin

but, yeah that's another positive side of my job, now that I think of it. I always did like a man in (or out of :shock) a uniform. Oh, now I think I've crossed the line!

Thanks, J & BG, for the words of support!

They WERE the cutest guys - and with the toned bodies as well! The guy in front carried the Marine flag.

The best was when we flew a military flight to Spain. We got on a cargo plane with these gorgeous "fly-boys." Now THOSE guys were hot! They wore those jump-suits and brown leather jackets with fur on the collar. It got real cold in the plane and one of them loaned me his jacket. I almost melted!!!! Yeah, a uniform can look really good on a man!