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I'm having a very difficult time right now. I'm struggling to deal with the issue of the student intern in my group and having her there. I've tried to explain to my T how I feel. He told me I'm jealous of her. But it's more than that. I feel like she's "watching" me and "observing" me and I feel like a guinea pig. I'm trying to get over this, but to no avail.

Group is today. I called my T and asked if I could see him at a session today. He hasn't called me back yet. So I wrote him a letter to bring to him in case I can't see him today. I told him that I need his help.

I'm trying to sit with my feelings. I feel terrible. I know there's not much I can do. So I'm sitting here, feeling what I feel, and knowing there's nothing I can do about it. I think in DBT it says to sit with your feelings. So I am. Maybe eventually they will go away. Ideally I'd like to have my T help me deal with these feelings. If I don't see him today I have to wait until Tuesday. That's a long time from now. So I just have to deal with it on my own.

I know there's not much you all can say. I just wanted to get my feelings out. I'm ready to cry right now. I even thought about hurting myself but that's not much of an option. I'm not that stupid. So I'm stuck just sitting here, waiting.

I'm inclined to agree at least in part with your T's opinion on this. But hey what do I know? I wonder what emotional and thought residue you have from the day he told you that if it came down to a question of one must go so the other would stay that he would choose for her to stay. What thoughts have you had about that since?

As for the intern and feeling like a guinea pig...



If she's doing her job, she is watching and observing everyone and everything. That's why she's there. To learn about BPD group process.

And you are there for your reasons. And your reasons do not match with hers. There must be some discomfort, but why can't you both accomplish what you're there for? Millions have.

Let's say she's an even bigger troll than you've described so far.... let's say she goes out to the student hangout and starts telling all her friends... "oh, in my group there is this one BPD screwup who just hates me and can't stand me being there... it's so much fun... she is so sick... she does this and that and this other thing... hahahaha.. isn't that sick?"

If that were to happen, how exactly would it effect your life? What you choose to do and and not do in your life? Who you know and what they think of you? How will it make any difference at all what she thinks and says? What would the consequences be for you if she does the worst that she could, so long as you don't know about it?

Then answer this... if she were to be caught doing something like that... violating confidentiality and ethics in any way... what would happen to her career and the work she's put into it so far? Do you think she doesn't understand this?

Did you tell him that it's more than that? Seems to me it's important to be assertive about owning our own feelings and not letting someone else tell us how we feel. Yes, as a T he should give insight, and it he's right in that, benefit from the input. But you can still say "Yeah, you may be right, but there's more than that."

I've pretty much gotten over what he said about me leaving the group over having her stay. That's not an issue for me anymore. And as far as the jealousy goes, I agree with some of that assessment. But I can deal with that too.

It's mostly the fact that I don't like being watched and observed, especially by someone who is incompetent. I know it's not going to change, that she's going to stay. So I need him to help me deal with it. I tried to deal with it on my own and it's not working.

I suppose if she did go out and gossip about us, I wouldn't know and it wouldn't make a difference. But my T did tell me that on that issue I need to trust him and that she would never do that. I put my trust in him and that's the best I can do.

So he called me back today and will see me before the group to discuss this. I just want him to understand how I feel. I even wrote a letter to him to describe how I feel. I felt as if he did not hear me. So today is my chance to explain exactly how I feel and ask him what I can do to help myself. I dont' want to leave the group, and she's not going anywhere, so I have to live with it. I need to know how best to do that.

I know she is there to learn. I know she's doing what he tells her to do. But it just deep down gives me the creeps. I can't help it. The thought of being watched by this 22-year-old who knows next to nothing and that she's assessing MY behavior is beyond belief. So it's his job to help me deal with it. He's the therapist and he knows more than I do, so I expect him to help me.

IBF, intellectually I know what you're saying is correct. But emotionally I can't wrap my head around it. That's where the problem lies. Every time I think about her watching me I shudder. I've never liked being someone's "subject" and this is no different. So telling personal things in front of her goes against my grain right now. Also, now I feel creepy being there because I REALLY know she is watching me. Before I just suspected, but now I know for sure. Yuk.

Well, we'll see what my T has to say. Let him figure it out. I am at a loss right now.

Thanks for your replies! I appreciate it.

Ellen, sorry I didn't address your post. I tried to tell my T it was more than that. I don't know if he heard or understood me or not. At the end of our session on Tuesday he did assure me that he DID understand what I was saying, but I'm still not sure. That's why I wanted to see him today. I was hoping I could see him before group to help me deal with this anxiety and explain fully to him exactly how I feel and what is bothering me. I need some questions answered by him too. I want to know what is done with the notes she writes into the computer. Are they put into our records? Who sees them? What is done with them? Why are they there in the first place? So I'm hoping he'll answer those questions, as well as discuss with me how to deal with my other feelings.

Well, I saw my T yesterday before group. I asked him what H does with the notes she writes up about us from group and puts in the computer. I asked him what if the notes are incorrect? He said he is her supervisor and checks everything she writes. He told me she is part of my "treatment team."

He said I need to use Radical Acceptance to deal with this. That I am obsessive and paranoid. He said if i'm not obsessing about this, I'm obsessing about something else. It's the way my brain works.

I went to group and it went fine. I tried to ignore her as best I could.

But when I got home I realized the stress was too much. I thought about him telling me she's part of my "treatment team." That does not sit well with me. I don't want her part of my "treatment team." I don't pay her and I didn't ask for her. So I've decided to leave the group until her time there is over, some time in June. I can't take it anymore. The stress is too much.

I feel bad because I enjoy listening to my T teach us in group. He's passionate about what he tells us and I always have something to learn. Unfortunately I could not figure out a way to deal with this problem and he hasn't helped me too much to do that either. He told me yesterday that he couldn't help me and I got in his face and practically yelled at him - "But it's your job to help me!" So in this instance I am shit out of luck. I just can't tolerate her being on my "treatment team." It's not acceptable to me. I'm an adult and can make those decisions for myself. I know he's not going to try to talk me out of leaving. To say he doesn't care isn't true, but he doesn't want me there if it causes me too much distress.

I'm going to call each of the women in the group and tell them exactly why I'm leaving. I don't know what he'll tell them in group. I'm sure it won't be the truth. So I want each of them to know the real reason. I know one of my friends is not going to be happy about it, and will try to talk me out of leaving, but I can't change my mind. This is all too much for me.

So now I'm depressed because I'm leaving the group, I'm depressed because I feel i haven't made much progress and have been obsessing and am paranoid. I feel like I am back to where I started. I just feel like a mess. Well, that's the way things are. Just wanted to let you know of my decision. :cry

((BG))

I am not saying any of this in attempt to minimise your feelings, as your feelings on this are as they are and you have every right too them.

I am looking at this thread with interest though, I have been wading through prospectus' this afternoon trying to make a decision as to which post graduate courses I can take to train to become a music therapist.

Having waded through endless courses I can not see one that does not involve studying in a clinical setting. I am seeing this thread as interest to me as I have been thinking only about my studies and reaching my goal of using my existing, talents and interests and putting them to use in a field of employment in which I feel can contribute. I hadn't as yet stopped to think how I would be viewed by the communities I would have to be involved in, in order to qualify. Nor what their reaction might be to their percieved intrusion to their groups.

You may consider this off topic and of no relevance which you are free to do.

However, I wanted to point out that purely from this students perspective, the least of my concerns would be to idle chit chat about people I observe on placements. The bulk of study required by the course, as well as the other commitments I have would mean my placements would be very much about learning from the therapist and observing interactions from the therapist view point rather than pulling apart the clients in the little free time I will have. I am not sure how else I am supposed to learn?



Looking at it from that perseptive isn't the student and client in pretty much the same position. Just my thoughts!

I hope you find some internal peace with this soon BG

I think it's really sad that you're walking away from something that's helping you because you can't find a way to cope with your feelings about the trainee.

Wanting to contact everyone in your group and make sure they know exactly why you're leaving - it sounds like you're trying to make a really big statement here. I just wonder if you're doing it at the expense of your real needs. If you're cutting off your face to spite your nose.

DBT teaches us to be effective - to do what is needed to help us reach our goals. Do you think you're being effective here? It does depend on what your goals are, of course. On what's most important to you.

I understand that leaving the group is temporary, and you may have other treatment options. I just think this could be a great opportunity to learn to cope with uncomfortable feelings. If you don't do it now, you may run into the same problem in the future, and be no further forward.

Just my two cents, and meant in the nicest possible way (((((BG))))))

I think it's great that you realize that you have a choice, and have chosen to actively make a choice.

I wonder, though, if perhaps your depression and feeling bad is because you are making the wrong choice for you, rather than truly doing what's best for you.

Thank you all for your replies!!!!

Bogit, I understand where you are coming from. Out of all the women in my group, only one other doesn't like the student. But she can tolerate being in group - she just ignores her. I would imagine that most people in groups wouldn't mind having a student join them. I don't know that for sure, but my reaction is pretty extreme and no one else feels this way. So I would think you're pretty safe going into your field and being well-received by clients in a group.

But I also want to protect me. And for me, I need to leave to save my sanity. I don't like this girl knowing things about me, I don't like her putting things into my records, and I don't want her part of my treatment team. I didn't ask for her, I don't like her and I have the choice to leave.

Yes, I may be cutting my nose off to spite my face. But I have to do what I think is best for me right now. I am not telling the other women in the group i'm leaving to "make a statement." I am telling them so they'll know the real reason. We've all been together for over a year and have gotten close. I don't want them to think I'm jumping ship without even talking to them. I think that if I just leave without an explanation it might hurt their feelings. I dont' want them to think it's anything they did that would cause me to leave. I can't be certain that my T would tell them the real reason, so I think it's the nice thing to call them up and tell them. I'm not asking them to agree with me or feel sorry for me. I just want to tell them the truth.

My goals of course are to learn. But I can't learn right now if I'm obsessing about this student and how my T thinks she's part of my treatment team. As I said, I did not agree to her being on my treatment team and don't want it. So my only choice is to leave. I'm hoping I can come back in June after she's gone. Maybe by then I'll learn how to stop obsessing and think differently. But I can't do that while I'm still in the group and stewing over her being there.

I know what I did looks pretty bad. That I can't sit with my negative feelings. But how else can I overcome the fact that I dont' want her as part of my treatment team? It should be my choice, not my T's. What else could I possibly do? He said that she has to "watch" us and put in information about us in our records. I don't like that. Why should I have to agree to it if it makes me uncomfortable? At what point do I have to "sit with these feelings?" No one is making me stay in group. It's a black-and-white issue. Either I stay and agree to his terms, or I leave. Since I don't like his terms, I'm leaving. He won't help me deal with it so I have no help. What choice is there? I'm just trying to stop obsessing about it and this is the only way I can see to do it.

I went out this morning with a friend and we had a nice time. We didn't talk about this issue (she knows nothing about it) and I feel more relaxed today than I have in weeks. So to me, it seems I made the right decision. I am not feeling as bad as I did this morning (I distracted myself by going out with my friend). I called my T this morning and asked him to call me back but he hasn't. I'm just trying to take care of myself and stop myself from further grief. I don't know how else to do it.
I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I just wanted to thank everyone for your help and comments. That's why I come here - to get feedback and try to learn. And honestly, if anyone could tell me how to accept someone being on my treatment team when I dont' want them there in the first place, I'd appreciate it. I just can't tolerate her. So any help would be gladly appreciated!

I'm just gonna throw this out there...just the way a wise (blunt) man threw it to me when I was stuck on one (stupid) girl in "my" meeting.

Why does it have to be all about you?
You don't like thinking that she's watching you and listening to you and writing notes about you and so on and on...As if you were all that important. What makes you think she's paying that much attention to you? What if she doesn't notice you much at all?

C'mon - how many people are in your group? How long does it last? If you have six people and group lasts only an hour, then she's probably only paying attention to you for ten minutes, tops. And that's if it's a full hour. Oh, wait - I forgot the group leader. She's probably watching HIM a lot more than she's watching you. After all, she's there to learn how to do what he does. so he gets a solid ten minutes, bringing you down to less than nine. Toss in a little daydreaming, a little planning tonight's dinner...We may be able to get your time down to five minutes or less.

Is five minutes worth throwing away a whole hour of therapy and training?

That's how I get over some of these things. How important do I think I am? I can make a list of everything this other person could be doing if she's NOT thinking about me. I can break up the time we have to spend "together" and see just how much "belongs" to me if I play the basic percentages. I can focus my thoughts on how little contact I actually have with this person. I can choose to focus my thoughts on the people I LIKE.

Why do we think that these people are so interested in us?
What makes me think I'm so interesting?

I actually get "Observers" all the time at my pdoc's office. Granted, that's not as intense as Group would be...but almost every time there's someone different that i don't know. I suppose I could change pdocs, but I'd rather just get on with what I'm there for. Maybe my pdoc likes showing me off?

I know that we all place different values on the treatments we receive. But having come through that sort of resentment, I've come to see that I can use my selfishness to HELP my recovery instead of HARM it. Instead of letting myself get wound around someone I don't care for and pulling away from the people who help me, I can decide (over and over again, as many times as it takes) to hang onto my recovery plan because that recovery is MINE, and I'm not going to let them drive me out of it.

I'm sorry that you're so wound up about this woman, and I'm sorry to hear that you are going to let this issue get between you and the help you need.

Minx, thank you. I'm going to ask you some questions and I hope you don't think they're stupid. First, when your pdoc has students in the room, are they considered part of your treatment team? Do they have a say in your treatment? Do they see your records? Do they put their own ideas about you into your records?

That's what bothers me the most about this. I don't like thinking that this 22-year-old ignorant girl is supposed to be just like my doctor. She is not! I know I'm not the most important person in the group. But my T said she's part of my treatment team. That means she gets a say in how I am treated and things like that. I don't like her having a say in my treatment. If she just sat there and did nothing, that would be fine. But she apparently has a say in my therapy. And I don't like that. I feel violated every time I think about it. And my T says he can't help me with those feelings. I thought he could help me.

I would love to get past this, but I'm stuck. I really don't want to leave group, but I don't want her having access to my records and having a say in my treatment. I don't trust her. I suppose I am paranoid, but that's how I feel. I feel terrible about this. I know deep-down you're right. I just wish she wouldn't have a say in my treatment if I stayed in group. But apparently she does and I don't agree with that. So it's not just 3 or 4 minutes that she focuses on me. It's more than that. She has a say in my treatment. And I don't trust her or like that arrangement. And if I stay in group it won't change. This is not what I bargained for.

I apologize if I sound so stubborn. I know you're right Minx but I am stuck and can't seem to get around it. I'm sorry.

Well, yeah, she's not. Do you think that she actually can single handedly alter the course of your treatment? She's in training. I had two of them in training in my DBT group. What she does is she learns. It's the only way there can be future DBT therapists for all the people out there who aren't able to be in a DBT group because one doesn't exist for them yet. She will go out someday and either run a group or use DBT in her practice.

As a part of her learning, she sits in on the discussions of the group members with your T. Your T allows her to practice giving her opinion. I doubt that your T gives a whole lot of weight to her opinion or changes his treatment plan based on her FB. He is the one in charge, he's the one with the power. She's just learning, and this is the only way she can learn. This is how they all learn DBT. She can have no possible effect on you by herself. Everything she does is under the supervision of your T. There is no realistic way she can harm you.

Thanks Ann. I would hope that would be true. I'd hate to think that she could alter the course of my treatment.

I just found out tonight that one of the members of my group is leaving. she got a job and won't be able to attend anymore. So if I also quit, that means there will only be 3 women attending. I don't know what my T will do if the group only consists of 3 women. I don't want to feel responsible for the group and what happens to it. I made my decision before I learned of this other woman's situation. But I don't want to allow it to be the deciding factor if I stay or leave. I just know I have to take care of myself. They may indeed keep the group intact. I guess they can run a group with 3 people in it.

Again, Ann, intellectually I know what you are saying is true. But emotionally I'm stuck, as I've said before. Since I made the decision to leave I can feel the tension has left my body and my head. I feel clearer and more at peace. I feel like a weight has lifted off of me. So I will not be able to stay. I know staying is probably the "right" thing to do, but I don't have the emotional strength to do it. And my T said he won't really help me deal with it, so I really am shit-out-of-luck. He just wants me to use Radical Acceptance, end of story. And I need more than that. But it's not forthcoming, so I have to leave.

I e-mailed the woman who e-mailed us to tell us she was leaving. I told her I plan on leaving and not to say anything to my T yet - I want to tell him myself on Tuesday. I told her that I'm leaving because I can't accept Heather as part of my "treatment team." That it had nothing to do with the women in the group. I've spoken about this before with her, so she'll know where I'm coming from.

Heather also sits in with the Pain Group so she is getting a lot of group practice. It's not like she needs me in particular to continue on. She'll manage okay with whatever she does. Hopefully when she's gone I can go back to the group, if it is still continuing on. Different people come to our group, but they come once and never return. So it's basically been the 5 of us. With the group down to 3, I don't know what will happen. But that's my T's problem, not mine.

I called him 3 times yesterday and asked him on the 2nd call to call me back. He never returned my phone call. I don't know if he's mad at me or not. He said it was okay to call him, but I don't know why he didn't return the call. I'll have to ask him on Tuesday why he's mad at me. I'd like to know if I did something wrong.

I need to spend this weekend trying not to think about this stuff. It hurts too bad.

BG,
Maybe he hasn't called back because he knows you are obsessing and wants you to sit with your feelings for a while and try to deal with them, and as he already said he can't help you with this since he let you know he isn't going to pull H from the group.

Have you considered that after H leaves, maybe another student could come into the group at some point? You might have to accept this if you plan on attending at any time.

I can understand the discomfort. I doubt she has a "say" in your treatment, as she is under your doctor's control, so ultimately HE is the one who has a "say" in your treatment.

Just some thigns to consider....how do you know for sure she is incompetent? Maybe she is quiet there, but maybe she is quite intelligent having made it to where she is now. As far as the jealousy, is that about how close she is working with your doctor? Just throwing some things out there. It might help to try to work this through even though you are leaving.

I understand about feeling emotionally stuck, even when my rational mind "knows" that what I perceive and "the facts" might not add up. Been there, still doing that!

I agree with Ann. I doubt that a student intern is a very powerful voice on your "treatment team". From what (little) I do know about students is that they are there to learn how to do what they do my watching and asking questions. They don't usually get a real voice in the direction of treatment because they aren't yet qualified to treat on their own. She's NOT "just like" your doctor because she's NOT a doctor at all, yet.

Is the phrase "treatment team" bothering you? We can look at what your treatment team is made of. A group of people who come together to make sure you get the proper care. If we want to get silly with the words, we can expand that to include the secretary who schedules your appointments and the guy down in accounting who does your billing. They ARE involved in your ongoing treatment. But I don't think they have a lot of say in the direction your treatment takes - unless the guy down in billing tells you that your insurance benefit is running out.

What I'm seeing...the only reason this girl is having any significant impact on your treatment is because you are making such a big deal about her. Your reactions may bring your T to reconsider certain alternatives or changes in your treatment - not because she said or did ANYTHING, but because YOU are reacting in such an obsessive unhealthy way.

Can you give us specific examples?
What did she SAY?
What did she DO?
And are there other ways you could interpret the stuff that's making you dislike her?

I keep coming back to this rational approach because you are in such an emotional state. When I'm all wrapped up in FEELING, I forget to THINK. I forget about the reality of what's going on and I focus on the imaginary stuff I tell myself in my head (and even if an event happened, my interpretation of it may or may not be imaginary).

What do you hear when you tell yourself this rational stuff? Do you hear answers coming back? Not like "hearing voices" but listening to your own internal conversation. A lot of times, when I start reciting "the facts" to myself, I hear a response that's small and afraid and angry shouting back at me.So who is that/me? How old are they? What do they/I REALLY want? usually, it's an immature me, who's afraid of losing something I have or not getting something I want. I hear "I can't" a lot. or "I won't". but if I listen really closely, what I really hear is a sorrowful, stubborn "I don't want to".

I don't want to do that.
I don't want to be nice.
I don't want to listen.
I don't want to be wrong.
I don't want to share.
I don't want to be alone.

This stuff doesn't make all the emotional crap go away, but it can put a different spin on it, make it easier to tolerate.

No I don't know if the students have access to my records or not. I know my pdoc and I are pretty open with them about my condition and my treatment, but I don't know how much access they do or don't have. I guess I don't mind because...I'm glad that "my" pdoc is "so good" that other people come to him to learn from him. And I trust him. I don't think he'd ever let anyone in session who would harm me.

Breathe. Keep breathing.

I'd been thinking the same thing as C2L, that as soon as Heather's gone in June, there will be another one.

Maybe you feel like your chose your t, but you weren't given a choice about Heather. I guess how I see it is that if I choose my t, I have to choose the whole package, I can't pick and choose. For instance, what drove me crazy about the DBT group I was in was that my t decided to make the group enormous. It made the situation almost impossible for me. I was very upset. I complained to him, and it made no difference, he'd made up his mind to have a huge DBT group. I even think this is a serious mistake on his part, because ever since he made that decision, most people in the group seem to have less commitment to the group, so every week only about half of them show up (or less) but it's often different ones, so there is no group cohesiveness, no bond between members. But this is my t's final decision. And the people in the group can take it or leave it (thank God I finally graduated.)

I guess it boils down to how badly you want to learn DBT skills. In 12 step groups there is a concept called "Being willing to go to any lengths for recovery." If you want improved quality of life more than anything else, then you will find a way to reconcile yourself to your t's decision. If it is more important for you to feel comfortable and in charge, then you won't. I'm not saying this is easy...this is a battle I don't always win myself. But it's entirely your decision. As it stands now, you will be at home feeling comfortable on your group day, but you will not have the benefit of your t's lectures to the group and you will not learn the skills as Linehan says they are ideally taught (in a group setting). It's absolutely your choice.

Wow, I have to say I'm disappointed.

That's all I'm going to say right now because I'm afraid I would be way, way, WAY too harsh otherwise.

Here's something that puzzles me. First you said you were depressed and feeling bad after making the decision. Thus my previous reply. But then later you say, "Since I made the decision to leave I can feel the tension has left my body and my head. I feel clearer and more at peace. I feel like a weight has lifted off of me.". That seems like two very opposite reactions to me.


Seems to me better to find out what's actually true, rather than acting based on what's apparently true.


Is this perhaps triggering something that has nothing to do with her?

BG

I remember a thread quite a way back when you first joined this group couldn't find it but perhaps you can, where you had very similar issues over whether you should leave the group, due to being unable to tolerate another member.

Do you remember how intensly you felt about that?

In all sincerity Bg yes is your choice, would not be mine. I know myself how facing the difficult and more challenging feelings, in order to preserve my recovery focus has been really important for growth.

I still can not see what say she has in your therapy as that ultimate decision about any treatment you receive falls with you!

BG, I agree with much of what has been written here.

I agree with Minx that "I can't deal with this" is more "I don't want to deal with this." I can understand feeling some relief at deciding to leave, but I also think that you're running away from an opportunity to dig down deep and work through the distress.

I don't see where you have any evidence that Heather is "incompetent." Yes, she's young and she's a student, but she has to start somewhere to learn to be an effective therapist. When I was just starting out as a nurse, someone had to be the first person I started an IV on or put a catheter in. I hope you're never admitted to a teaching hospital -- last month's medical students are today's residents, and they *do* make decisions that directly affect your care, if not operate on you. On the other hand, Heather is observing, and probably conferring with your T to learn why he makes the decisions about treatment that he does. I highly doubt that she's making those decisions independently.

You have a T you've related to well, and who, based on what you've written about him, bends over backwards to respond to your calls and e-mails and concerns. He obviously feels that he has something to give in terms of teaching young therapists-to-be, and I think it's too bad that you don't want to be a part of that with him.

I really hope you'll reconsider.

Thank you all so much for your replies! I really truly appreciate it.

First, I want to say that this is not a DBT group. We learn some DBT skills once in a while, but it's not a traditional DBT group. At some sessions we dont' even discuss DBT.

Some of you have said that I should stay and work on this. But I don't know how to work on it. My T said he won't help me work on it. My main feeling is that I don't like being someone's guinea pig - I don't like being the person a student "learns on." But he won't help me get over that feeling. So I'm left with nothing. How can I get help? He doesn't want to discuss it with me anymore. He said he would help me with Radical Acceptance, but that could take ages.

I don't understand why I should HAVE to stay in a situation that I am most uncomfortable in. I'm not involuntarily committed. It's my choice whether I stay or not. I told my husband about it and how I was leaving and he didn't say anything - he just accepted what I decided. I told him the whole story and he didn't think I was doing anything wrong by leaving.

Maybe it would be better for me to stay and deal with it. But I don't know HOW to deal with it. That's the problem. And I don't get any help from my T.

I don't want to discuss it in group. I am not going behind anyone's back. My T told me to call some of the members and talk to them on the phone - it was his suggestion. I am not sneaking around. The reason I won't discuss it in group is because I do not want H to know how I feel about anything. I don't want her to know how I feel about the weather, about what color the curtains are, or anything. Everyone knows how I feel, including H. She knows I don't like her or want her involved with me. So it's not a secret. I cannot explore how I feel about this because my T won't explore it with me. I'm stuck. He said he doesn't understand why I stay in the group, given my feelings. But he won't explore them with me. I told him about past experiences with medical students, etc. and he didnt' say anything. So he's not helping me here very much, is he? He's the only one I want to really explore this with - certainly not with H.

I was depressed when I decided to leave the group. But then I realized that I felt a feeling of relief - relief that I finally made a decision about what to do. And relief that I know now that she won't be part of my treatment team. I know she's a student and has to learn. But I don't want her learning on me. Maybe I'm a big chicken, maybe I'm running away. But I don't know how to fix it. I don't know how to change how I feel. Without my T's help I don't know what I can do. He sees how upset I am and I think he'd rather I leave the group than be so upset.

I know H doesn't make ultimate decisions about my care. But I don't want my T conferring with her about anything to do with me. I feel it's my choice ultimately who I give permission to know personal things about me. And she wasn't part of the bargain as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry Ash that I am a disappointment to you. But given that my T has indicated that he doesn't know why I stay in the group if I'm so distressed, and that he won't explore this issue with me, I don't have any way of getting much help. I told him to his face that it's his job to help me, and he said he can't.

Okay, imagine this. You're in your doctor's office. Your legs are in the stirrups and you're waiting for your GYN to come in. All of a sudden, the door opens and in walks your doctor, with 10 medical students behind him/her. You're laying there with your legs spread wide apart. They're all looking at you. Your doctor didn't tell you they were going to be there. Your doctor didn't ask your permission. Well, that's how I feel every time I go to group and H is there. Whether it's rational or not, that's how I feel. And my T is not willing to explore this with me or help me. (By the way, this scenario has never happened to me - it's just an example).

So, this is the story, this is how I feel and I have no one to help me through it. If I'm a disappointment, I'm sorry. I've told you all explicitly how I feel. I know intellectually what you are all saying is true, but I can't get past the feelings. And I don't have anyone to help me work my way through them.

Bg I don't feel there is much more I can say. The topic of your post to me was right on the money. You knew when you opened this post, that there was something to learn from sitting with uncomfortable feelings. I am unsure when that idea became one you decided to run from. A great chance to practice dbt skills, and a great opportunity to ask for support in doing so.

T says he wont help you, perhaps T does not buy into the idea of helping you understand you with this? Perhaps T is asking for you to do the work?

But Bg he did say he would help you, is it just that it is not in the way you would like him to.



Guess I can see the value in being someone that people can learn from, perhaps I accept that everyone starts somewhere and that hell if it help other people recover from the horrid existance I had, well then I wanna be part of that! Where I your T learn? What makes him such a great therapist?



Not sure this example is directly related BG feels a bit like catastrophising.
If this is how you view one student therapist being the the group then no wonder you want to run, most people would.

Bg I still hope you will think on this some more, if you are done with it already I aplogise, but I really do believe that these things have a habit of coming back to bite us in the bum in the end.