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BG, I'm glad that you made a decision and that you're going to explore this more with your T. I did have some concerns about you leaving the group which I raised above, but I think the most important thing is that you're willing to be open and honest with yourself and work on this issue, which I see you doing. :thumbsup Maybe having a break from group will provide the mental "space" you need to get some perspective and be able to tackle things from a calmer place. I hope so!

You have 100% the right to make your own choices. I can imagine this thread, with people trying to persuade you to stay in the group, might feel a bit like the situation where H joined the group and you didn't get any say? It wasn't my intention to pressure you, just to share my opinion.

I have to admit that in the UK med students can only be present with the client's consent. I'm not certain if it's the same for therapy students, but I imagine it might be. But if the rules don't work like that where you live, then you have to work with that, and find a way to get the help you need. I hope you'll be able to do that by working through this with your T. Of course you still have your individual therapy and the board and self-help resources, so it's not like you're turning your back on treatment.

I do feel a lot of your thoughts about H are irrational and unhealthy, but I think you already know that. If you find yourself getting stuck with them, maybe it is best to take a step back and use more of a "baby steps" approach.

I also think it's good that you're able to take everyone else's opinions on board and still make your own decision about what you feel is best for you. Hey, even if you later change your mind, it's through making our own decisions and living with the consequences (good or bad) that we learn.

All the best!

Aqua, my T is still involved with the group. He hasn't left. You're painting him in a negative light. He is doing his job. He has to take this gal on in the group - it's part of his job. He told us ahead of time she was coming in. He asked us how we felt about it. We were unsure, but we never said she couldn't come in. I suppose if we did he might have re-thought things. But no one said she couldn't come in. It was only later that I became uncomfortable. My T is not going to throw her out just because one person doesn't like her there. If you call that not caring about me as a patient, that's your perogative. I'm sure what he did by bringing her in is not against the law. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to do it.

My T is not making unsound decisions about my treatment. On the contrary, he's giving me the best advice he can. Whether you agree with it or not is not the issue. I have to do what I feel is best for me. I trust him and if I have issues with him I work them out.

Regarding a two-way communication, I feel as if you're putting me in the position of having to defend myself. You're saying my T doesn't care about the group, doesn't have my best interests at heart. There is more to this than I can write on a piece of paper. I trust my T and we work things out together. He cares about my treatment and wants what is best for me as well as for the group.



You are 100% wrong with this statement. I care a great deal about making a sound decision. It just isn't the decision you would make. But I thought a long time about what to do. And I have to take care of myself. My T did not make an unsound decision in my treatment. You're getting a bit carried away here. I have no intention of dropping my T. You don't know him and you're basing your thoughts on just what you read here. You know nothing about him and how he's been treating me. It's just your perception based on a few words. But that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I certainly wouldn't leave my T because you think it's a good idea. I dont' even know you in RL. Why would I even think of such a thing?

I'm not stupid. I've been with many T's. And if I thought for a minute I wasn't getting good care, I'd be out the door. But that's not the case here. It's way out of line. And I'm not being defensive - I'm telling you how it is in RL.

Why can't you just accept that I don't want to be studied by a student, that it bothers me and to take care of myself I choose to leave the group? What is so terrible about that? There is no secret hidden agenda here. It took me weeks to come to this realization. My T did nothing illegal or out of line. I don't like the student being there, but it's his job to oversee her in group. Just because I don't like it doens't make it illegal. He isn't going to throw her out just because of one patient. He has an agreement with the university and this is the way it is. I think you're getting a bit carried away. But as I said, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to keep defending my position to you. This is what happened and this is how I dealt with it. I feel good about my decision and so does my T.

Thank you Marga. As you can see, this is not a black-and-white issue. I am not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I have a good therapy relationship with my T. He has stuck by me through thick and thin. He has my best interests at heart.

As I've said before, I thought a lot about what to do. I did not rush out the door at the first sign of distress. I stayed in group and tried to work it out. But I couldn't. My T saw me obsessing and getting more and more anxious. His main priority was keeping me safe and healthy. He told me he was afraid I'd end up back in the hospital. He'd rather I leave the group than get myself sick. So he thinks me leaving was the best thing to do under the circumstances. We can explore the reasons why I left the group at a later time.

The group is going to change soon. I don't know what direction it will take. I can always choose to go back at a later time. Maybe later I would be more comfortable with a student in the room. Who knows? But for now I have to take care of myself. This isn't an issue anymore of expectations I may have of the student or what she does. It's about me doing what is best for me. Basically she is out of the picture. So I've stopped obsessing about her and am focusing on me and my needs and what I need to do to stay healthy.

Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it.

I simply think that a lot of it has to do with getting more information..... I'm making suggestions, BG. Have you asked him WHY he brought her into the group, or are you making assumptions? What is his story?

I know it may feel as if you are being interrogated, but the truth is, the only way to make a sound decision is to weigh the facts. And if you haven't asked him to clarify himself, I don't see how you can do that.

As far as him being a part of the group, are you saying that he is leading the group, and she is there? He is there at every group session?

Because I do know that he has proven he would rather people quit the group than do the right thing and have her taken out of the group (and this of course, is according to Ca. law, not other states who are less accountable). The reason why the law exists I suppose is because of people like you. The people needing support come first.

I do appreciate your answers, BG. I am not trying to be interrogative, lol, I just don't know another way to get the answers. Sometimes it isn't just about how we feel, but it's about finding the facts.

He is there at every meeting. So is she. He has to have her there as part of her curriculum from the university. So far, I am the only one who has left the group because of her. If all the members left because of her, he would have to re-think it. But he's not getting rid of her just because of me. These are the facts. He told me this himself.

BG, Also, I just wanted to make the point that I was not trying to get you to think the way I would think, nor do I care whether you make the same decision I would or not. I think it's the way I am communicating that makes you feel as if you are being interrogated - partly my fault and party yours, I think. Also, sometimes when I say things, you seem to assume things - you jump to the defensive when I am just wondering what the facts are, not really trying to pin anyone down (although my communication may make it seem that way.)

I do realize that because of our environments (the overall emotional state and expectations of entire regions) is very influential to our actions, which is why I wouldn't expect someone from say NC to make the same decisions as someone in Ca, and I am living proof of that, which is why I left lol. There are certain parts of Ca that are scary in that way as well to me. I don't expect anyone to think like me, and I'm realistic in that way. So I wasn't trying to get you to think like me or make the same decision I would, I simply think knowing as many facts and perspectives as possible is important in making decisions and in growing emotionally. In other words, not to immediately assume that person is wrong in their beliefs or thoughts, but to try to understand why they think as they do and who they are, and that changes me and the way I think.

Aqua, I think I understand what you're saying. However, in this instance, where I live has nothing to do with this. I am a transplant, and do not "think" like the natives here. At least I don't believe I do. I don't know how the "natives" would feel about this issue. It seems highly personal to me, therefore not so much a regional thing. But again, that may be true. However, I am not a native so my thinking may be contrary to what most natives here would do. I never thought of this situation as a regional thing. And again, it's not that important for me to know how they would think. I asked a lot of questions before I left the group. I got as much information from my T as I could. I just didn't walk off. I asked questions and pondered the answers for quite a while. So I didn't go off half-assed.

I know you wanted information from me. That's fine. I have no problem with that. I tried to answer you as honestly as I could. It's very difficult to know what is going on in someone else's head when you don't have them right there in front of you. You can't see facial expressions or body language. All we have here is what's in front of us in words. So we have to do the best we can. I tried to paint as clear a picture as I could of the situation. It gave me an opportunity to explore my feelings about this. Thank you for giving me that opportunity! We may not agree with each other, but we can have a mature discussion which I do appreciate. Thank you!

Well, the regional thing is only one factor in a slew of things that would lead to a different decision being made. I think I brought it up because of the fact that 1) I mentioned that Ca law would not allow such a thing to happen, and 2) I wouldn't expect someone to operate under a law they didn't know of, and I wouldn't expect his expectations to reach a certain level, depending on region. I didn't mean to say it was simply a regional thing, I probably should be using the word area instead of region though.

Yea, you're so right about that, that although I think I do okay communicating, sometimes I think I do come across in ways I really don't mean to, but I think with experience I can learn to do better. And really, we can't see intentions, but only think we do, I guess, which makes it kindof hard to know what someone is trying to do or get across and in what way sometimes, especially when trying to decipher those of us who don't do as well with written communications. So true about the body language and communications... that really does help when trying to decipher what people mean.

I appreciate the discussion as well.

My T is not doing anything illegal or not approved by law. He works for a very reputable medical office. They have to work within the law. Believe me, nothing illegal is going on.

Well, I never said there was. You don't have to defend it. I think when you stop feeling as if you have to defend.... that when someone says something that is possibly not what you want to hear, that you have to defend yourself. You don't. You don't have anything to prove to anyone. It's all just thoughts and facts, some of it may be true to you and some may not.

I think maybe just taking a break from all of this might be the right thing for now. You've done a lot of work here.

It's hard for me to find the time and concentration right now to read this entire thread, but scanning through it as I have I wanted to say something to you BG.

It seems to me like you haven't explored much of your feelings about why you have trouble with H being there. Ya know? Really explored that. Because, well, I really don't mean to invalidate your feelings BG, but while you keep referring to H as ignorant etc, I wonder if you've considered her position from the other side, a bigger picture side. What she learns from your group, from you and your T will in time contribute to her becoming a therapist herself, and so helping people just like you in the future.

I'm just wondering if it could possibly help to change the way you feel about her presence to see yourself as contributing to a bigger picture where you help people to learn how to help others.

And that may not change your feelings at all, but it may very well turn "I can't tolerate" to "I can, but jut don't really want to". Or it could help you move into "I want to tolerate...".

See what I mean?

I also wonder if her observation, her watching you, makes you feel silently judged. Some food for thought anyway.