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I've been using the words "obsession" and "addiction" to describe my attachment to my T. But what exactly is obsession and what is the cure for it? I know there are meds for OCD, but is "obsession" a technical diagnosis with a treatment? I've been using it in a generic way; no T ever told me I had an obsession. I don't even know if obsession is part of the BPD spectrum.

In my recent thread, Ellen wrote: "obsessing isn't just thinking a lot about someone. It's thinking about them in an unhealthy, clingy way." I know that many of us are clingy in our relationships; does that make us obsessive?

The definition doesn't matter as much as what to do about it, though. I don't think any of my Ts have given me an effective solution for my obsessing. My Ts have said I "spin my wheels" about things. I'm not sure if that's obsessing. I have trouble making decisions, so I do often "obsess" about what to do in any circumstance, not just about people.

So, how do you stop obsessing? Maybe there isn't a solution. I know that my T can't meet my needs, and I accept that I can't be her baby, and that therapy is going to end. So, having that urge, to use a different word than obsession, to have something in her writing, is something I couldn't control. Does that make it an obsession? It was important to me, so I called her. But now I'm still thinking about it. I'm not sure it's unhealthy. I'm not paralyzed; I'm going about my life. So am I still obsessing?

Now suppose this is a real problem, and that it is called "obsessing." What tools are useful to stop it or do you just have to use Radical Acceptance to control it? I'm not sure how to apply The Five Steps or Untwisting to obsessing. Comments?

I think a passion becomes an obsession or an addiction when it causes you more pain than pleasure, or when the cons outweight the pros, yet you still feel compelled to keep doing it. That's a tricky definition, though, because when we're obsessed or addicted, we often find it hard to ackowledge the negatives, and go into denial.

I know a few months back I started a thread with lots of different ideas for tackling obsessions. If you can't find it, let me know and I'll have a dig around!

For me the key thing is distraction, both on a short-term basis - finding ways to stop and distract yourself when you catch yourself obsessing - and on a long-term basis - filling your life up with lots of healthy interests and activities.

Marga.

To my way of seeing things (and not just your situation), obsession is tantamount to "intently focused" where the thoughts take a front seat for extended periods of time and/or are always present.

Right now, I'm kind of going through an obsession withdrawal of sorts. It's an online game and I must have spent a good 20+ hrs while at work this week playing it instead of doing work or studying for my classes or anything else. I think about the game pretty regularly. When I allow myself to get near it, I get lost in it. I'll fritter away hours at a stretch "without realizing it." (Some part of me knows and just doesn't care.)

So even while I've been reading and replying at BPDR, the game has been lingering in the back of my head. I'm still productive but the game is ever-present in my thoughts. I want to get in there and play. I want to get lost in there because it's better than working or studying. It's more fun which means it's more gratifying to me. I want, want, want!

In contrast, I love my husband and my dogs. They're always in my heart but I don't have thoughts of them dancing in the background of my thoughts all the time.


You know the saying "If you have to ask, you can't afford to buy it"? If you have to ask if you're still obsessing, then the answer is probably yes. If you're not able to clearly distinguish between healthy and unhealthy, obsessive and non-obsessive (normal), then yes, you're most likely stuck in an obsessive place.

:2cents


The fact that you're worried about whether or not this is healthy/unhealthy or obsessive/non-obsessive signal a non-zero level of anxiety and/or distress for you. It worries you enough to post about it, right? It has intruded into your life enough that it has gained merit for discussion.

Wondering I have pieces of paper I believe I shared with you in another thread. I keep them in a box. I know they are there. I know how to get to them. They have my nurses writing on, but more importantly some thoughts on dealing with little situations I have been faced with historically . I plan to keep them to use should they be helpful in the future. Very much in the same way as any other book in my extensive library. eg The Angry Heart or a neat resourse entitiled, How to Talk so Your Children Will Listen.

Do I obsess about them? I dont think I do. Am I happy that I have them? Absolutely.

Now how would it be if your T wrote that for you and printed it, simply signing it at the bottom, does it have to be in her hand writing?

What are important to you, the words or the piece of paper?

I am wondering how much you are "spinning your wheels" over how to seperate healthily, rather than observing how you feel without judgement.

I am not saying not to talk about how you feel just suggesting that this may be a way of beating yourself over the head some.

The key here is to recognize that obsession is present. By rationalizing and labeling the thoughts as healthy, there will not be any reason or impetus to force a distraction.

Honestly, I do think that there's some level of pendulum-ness required. Whenever ANY thought of the obsession subject comes up, it should ALWAYS be met with a distraction - at least in the short term. From one extreme to another until the person can settle into the middle grey area.

In my own instance, I am refusing to allow myself to give in to the obsessive thoughts and I will not go to the site at all (even though there are other things to do there besides that one game) today. I cannot afford to allow myself the temptation. Any wiggle-room at all and I will plummet down into the pits of obsession, I know this. Until I prove to myself that I can go completely without, I will not be able to trust myself to engage in a healthy way.

Letting me into the grey right now would result in my running straight to the black. I can't (won't) allow myself to do that so instead I am sequestering myself in the white area, completely shut off from all hints of grey, any notion of access to black at all. A few days (some period of time) in the white will help me learn to appreciate the grey and reduce the intensity with which I desire (want, need, must have) the black.

This is the same approach I've used with past obsessions. My way may not work for all people or all situations.

Maybe the answer (or part of it) to "how to control it" is to not try so hard to control it. Let go and let what's going on just be.

I'm inclined to agree with Ellen. Allowing the thoughts to be there instead of fighting them, you might just find that "acceptance" has the effect of quietening down thse thoughts, instead of resisting, fighting, making them wrong and trying to get them to disappear. Have you tried seeing them as "they're just thoughts" without labelling, criticising, judging them? Just allowing whatever you're experiecning to be there? I'm not saying ACT here, just observe. Don't make your experience right or wrong, good or bad. It just is.

First, about what I said there. For me, that's a way of stating what I see as the difference between what I see in myself as obsessive thinking, and what I don't see as obsessive thinking.

As for your question, I don't think clingy equals obsessive. I've no reason to think clinginess doesn't happen without obsessiveness. But, for me, the problematic bothersome obsessive thoughts seem to always have an emotional clinginess there. Perhaps that not true for everyone. I think it's not a just me thing, though. I'm inclinded to think I'm not unusual in that.


Another thought on coping with obsession. Ash in her post described obessiveness as "intensely focused". One thing we can do is choose to focus on something else. That goes along with what I said in my previous post. Let it be, and consciously choose to focus on something else.

I know I've been obsessing about something recently - I wrote about it in another post. My T told me I've been obsessing. I tried to "sit with the feelings" and became agitated about it when I did that. I felt I had to DO something to stop the obsessing thoughts. I asked my T to help me figure out how to stop, and he basically said he couldn't help me. But he did say I should use Radical Acceptance over the situation I was obsessing about. He told me we'd work on that next week.

I don't like when I obsess. I usually realize after a while that I'm doing it. I want to stop, but I can't. For me, it was about a situation. So for me, I had to change the situation. I don't know if I made the "right" decision or not - but I just did what I thought was best for me - I didn't know what else to do.

Now that I've made that decision, my head feels clearer. I also went out with a friend today and was distracted. I didn't think I COULD be distracted, but I was, which is good.

My T told me that I go from one obsession to another. That made me feel pretty bad - like this is the way I'm wired and can't fix it. No wonder I was so depressed this morning!

Anyway, I'm always interested in discussion on this topic. I guess I'm a poster child of obsession.

Oh, me too! Obsessive Trinity is what they call me. I've definitely have had romantic obsessions. Those are the worst for me. Then, a recent obsession is about a situation that may not even exist, but I can't stop thinking about the possibility that it might happen. My worst, worst, worst obsession has to do with dying. I'll get stuck thinking about my mom or my sister or my husband or even ME! dying. The thoughts lead to panic attacks and I haven't figured out how to deal with the thoughts. I'm very interested about this topic. It's something I definitely need some help with.

Duplicate post.

Wondering,
Yes, you are obsessing.

I obsess too. Just changes to intense and not so intense, something like that.

Maybe "spreading it out" would work. Some might call it distraction, but distraction implies to me that the distraction isn't as good, but just something to take your mind off the "real thing." So, for example, if you obsess about your T, maybe you can add some more interesting people into your life who are just as "good" or at least almost as good. Like, what about a spiritual director? What about taking a new class and getting to know the teacher and thinking they are pretty cool and interesting because they are teaching you something you always wanted to learn? Or a mentor?

I'm not sure that is great advice or not, I just think it works and I think I need to do it too!! :shysmile

I don't think the word we use to describe it matters so much as simply recognising there is a problem.

For myself identifying (acknowledging) obsessive tendencies is key. Like a few people have said, once you recognise it, simple, stop feeding it. I've noticed that when I think about a person who I identify I'm obsessing about, the distingushing feature is how thinking about them manipulates my emotions. Whether I'm having saviour fantasies (giving me rushes a little like falling in love) or rejection fantasies (giving me gut wrenching feelings of abandonment) there's an emotional response to the thoughts. It's those emotional responses that I'm addicted to. And that is what, for me, qualifies as an obsession.

I agree with Sarah - the rush of feelings - either up or down- is core for me (and maybe she isnt quite saying this). But, I have noticed it is true for me- some would say drama- especially when one is focused on the more negative or down side of things/feelings - but drama (good or bad), nonetheless.

About a year ago, I came to recognize that so long as I was caught up in those feelings- I was able to avoid what needed attending to in my life. And, for me, I believe this is very true. The rush of feelings and focusing on them is/was a distraction.

I am doing this a bit less these days, but I still do it, and I do agree with others that observing is important. And, perhaps, especially at the start- radical acceptance- (not judging).

I've noticed that I could probably feel a lot more satisfied, in very basic, but core ways, if I spent more time on my life and the little things that are a part of it. I believe, for myself, I got caught up in believing there was something more- maybe I was bored; maybe I was disheartened and maybe I didn't know how to stretch myself and find new things. I'm coming to understand moreso how spending time with me myself and I is ok and can actually feel pretty good and satisifying.

Another thing I do when I feel I am wanting too much is to acknowledge that these feelings are mine and they are ok and I dont need anyone else to validate or acknowledge them- that it is ok to have them. (But that I do not need to sit in them forever- this, sometimes helps me- if I am wanting some contact from a friend, I can validate and acknowledge myself and my feelings not get hung up on whether they can or will validate me.. and I find that when I do this I can more readily move on and refocus on my daily life.)

Sorry if this went off on a tangent, for me they relate somewhat- the self-validation; they wanting attention/recognition and the high from such.

Smilin, I think I get that high from the obsession too. And from the drama of it. Yesterday I called my T 3 times. The 2nd time I asked him to call me back. He never did. So I'm thinking why didn't he call, is he mad at me, what did I do wrong? I made up all these scenarios in my head. It was a form of drama for me. I did attend to the things in my life that i needed to, but when I went upstairs to watch TV, this is when I started thinking these thoughts. And I do have to learn to just sit with those feelings and not feel I need to do anything about them.

Thank you for the replies. I will reply to everyone, but something hit home for me. First, though, I'm still wondering if anyone's medicine helps with obsessing. I don't want to take med, but is med for OCD also for just plain obsessing? Has anyone been helped with meds for obsession? I don't want to start a separate thread in the other forum because I don't think I'll get any responses. Why can't obsessional thinking be treated? It sounds like everyone has different ideas, so it's not a diagnosis that stands alone? I know I haven't googled "obsession" yet; not sure why not.

What strikes me is what Sarah and smilin posted about the "rush of feelings".

Sarah said:



That's exactly it, Sarah. It's not MY T whom I'm obsessing about, but the emotional responses. The "being in love" feeling, the excitement, the "high." It's not HER as a person because those are just normal feelings of closeness and attachment. The "high" comes from the way I feel. My T knows that and we discussed it. She told me I didn't need those highs; I just needed normal life to satisfy me, and that when I didn't get that from her, everything would seem a little flat.

So, the obsession is about the emotional responses. I don't know how that fits in with unmet needs from infancy. Or is it just that I'm an abandaholic or a love addict? I just have to live with these tendencies. There doesn't seem to be a cure.

I'll write more later. I think I'll google "obsession".

Hi

Obsession as a stand alone concept from Compulsion (ie just the O of OCD) is def recognized as a condition.

I read a ton about all this, and the very best book of all was by a pyscho-neurologist called Jeffrey Schwartz (sp?) called The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force. He gives concrete evidence as to how we can actually change the way our brains are wired through our thoughts and gives you exercises to do each time you hit a trigger (now boy, why didn't I think to dig THAT book out last week?!). He has another book called Brain Lock which is less about the science behind it and more about practical exercises.

His approach is based on mindfulness principals, and around the idea that you recognize your brain is misfiring and not take it all so seriously (paraphrase!) or freak out about it. Also he shows in his book how PET Scans of OCD patients are different before and after the self-treatment - how you really can create 'new grooves' so your thoughts don't just get stuck in the old ones around and around in circles.

Check it out here http://www.ocduk.org/2/foursteps.htm

In terms of meds, yep, it can be done. Certainly stuff like risperadal (sp?) will stop you ruminating, and I guess any of the SSRIS that are for OCD...but the side fx can be pretty hefty.

As far as drugs for obsessiveness, I think it depends on the nature of it. It it's a general tendency to get mentally stuck on something, as I understand it (not that my knowledge if very broad), meds can help. But if the obsessiveness is coming from emotional issues, if it's a particular single obsession relating to past experiences or emotional needs, I think meds aren't going to help that. Well, it's possible they can lessen it a little (not sure).

Or, to put it differently, if it's the kind of obsession I was talking about, an emotional clinginess, I don't think meds will help much.

But, when obsessiveness is a general tendency to get mentally stuck on something, I think, as I understand it, that's when meds can help.

Wondering -

Do you really feel drugs are the only thing that can help you? Are you feelng that you've explored this obessive tendancy all you can?

I am not saying you shouldnt look at meds I just think that there is more benefit to working thru it - if you can.

I liked Susanna's post about thoughts and the brain. I post here on and off about such because it is what my 2 T's have worked with me a lot on and I've improved, thanks to them, quite a bit. I do think this is one thing you can work at and learn to improve- to break free from repetitive and obsessive thoughts.

I think, however, that the other side is dealing with the highs (and/or lows)
and also learning how to break free from that and accept a more flat-line approach to life where the highs are occasional and then really something to get thrilled about and the lows are few and far and something to honor and move on from.

Do you have a concern that you might try to find another T or return to this one before too long?

Marga: I will try to find your thread. Maybe I'm in denial because I still want to obsess. I want to quit therapy, but I still want to obsess about my T. I'm starting to feel hopeless about feeling any different until a lot of time passes.

Ash: What you wrote about the game is exactly the way I feel. My T is "dancing in the background of my thoughts" most of the time. It's going to be hard to distract myself until after my final session. I don't feel like I can do anything about it now.

Amanda and Ellen: You are saying the opposite of what Ash says. She says to "label your thoughts as obsessive" and you say to observe and accept them, without labeling them. I don't know how to decide which method is better. :/ However, focusing on something else is a good idea. When I distract myself, that's what I am doing. But I DID want to act on it this time. At least now I'm not obsessed with asking my T if she'll do what I wanted. So in this case, I was obsessed with the asking, and I did it, and I feel better about it.

Trinity: Thank you. I hope you learn something from this thread too.

C2L: I get what you mean, but I don't think anyone else could replace my T except another obsession! I do have people I like and respect, but without the intimacy you have with a T, it's not the same. There is a teacher I admire very much, but I don't have a relationship with her. It's not the same.

smilin: I understand, like I posted already, about the "rush of feelings", and the way to handle it is to attend to everyday things in life. When I do that I feel good. It's just that those feelings to do with my T and therapy are always even better, though I recognize them as unhealthy.

Susanna: I went to the link and it seemed like the 4 steps were how to treat OCD. I think it would be useful for me too, but I don't have OCD--I don't check things or obsess about washing my hands, or things like that. But the basic idea of identifying the obsession, and then switching to do something else, is what I need to work on. I just don't WANT to right now. I know that's against happy, healthy living, and I am going to have to change my attitude very soon (like next month or so) but I just want to stall a little longer. I just want to accept where I am. I am definitely not going to use it as an excuse not to terminate therapy. It will just be harder for me.

Ellen: In just reading something about treatment for OCD, antidepressants were mentioned. If I can't handle quitting therapy, I will keep in mind that I could always try meds though I never, ever have been on any type of antidepressant before. According to you, they wouldn't help for my emotional obsession, though.

Wondering, a few things. First, I take antidepressants and the one I take doesn't seem to help me with the obsessive thoughts I occasionally get. I think for me, recognizing that they're obsessive thoughts helps me.

I also use distraction. I'm sort of like you - I say I don't want to stop obsessing. But then real life intereferes, and I am engaged in other activities and the obsessive thoughts stop. Maybe they come back later, but often less so.

So I see this as a gradual thing. In the case of your T, I think it will just take time. Once you stop therapy, you will know you won't be going back. And real life will interefere. Hopefully you'll get busy with your life and different pursuits, and will think less and less of your T.

If you find that the obsessive thoughts do not go away, and they interere with your quality of life, then you can explore medication. But you would have to find a psychiatrist who understands the situation and what you are going through. I don't know which antidepressants help obsessive thoughts. But you should find a qualified psychiatrist.

When will you be stopping therapy permanently? Once you are done, see how it goes. Maybe things will get better and you won't need medication. And also, medication wont' be a quick-fix. You will still need to consciously work on dealing with your feelings about your T.

smilin, we either cross-posted or I missed your other post. Sorry. No, I don't want to take medicine, but a former T told me to always have a Plan B, so I decided meds could be an option. I'd rather not need anything else. It's just that I'm discouraged. I "got over" my attachment to my first T over 20 years ago, but here I am in the same position again. I didn't solve it! I wanted to be attached, so I was. I understand it better, and I've discussed it with my T, but I still haven't solved it. She said I will always have the tendency to have this happen with other people. I just have to live with it. I don't know what else I can do. I will have to try using the methods to stop OCD if nothing else works. Maybe I will be fine, and it's just difficult for me now because I haven't quit therapy yet. I'm anxious about it.

Yeah, I've mentioned before that my T told me about "I Never Promised You a Rose Garden" and how the world seemed flat to the main character when she gave up her fantasy world. Ideally, you're right about the highs and lows. I have to accept that.

I have a concern that I would WANT to find another T or not REALLY end therapy but I will not do either. I can see my T if I really need to, but I will not see anyone else. I refuse to go through this again. I'm finished.

Wondering, I see your dilemma. I might think slightly about going to another T to overcome this T, but then you might get into the same situation. I wish there was someone you could talk to who you trust and you know you probably wouldn't get into this situation with. Someone you trust and who has insight, but you know you wouldn't get attached to. That would help you immensely. This may not sound nice, but do you get attached to every person you go to for help? Is there some way you can find someone to help you who you can deal with more impartially? That's why I thought that some sort of mental health group might work. It would be a group of peers and you maybe wouldn't get as attached to them like you would a T. It was just an idea.

And if you did decide at some point to see another T, it might be someone not so close to your community. Someone who is a little removed from that so you dont' run the risks of running into them a lot in RL. That is one idea that might help you keep from getting so attached.

Well, if you go on meds you will need to find a psychiatrist. Perhaps you can confide in that person. Seeing someone every 3 months for med checks is not the same as going to therapy once a week. So maybe you could get your needs met yet still not have that attachment come about. Maybe this would give you the best of both worlds.

I too have been obsessing recently and know I have to stop. Maybe by saying NO :hand and consciously choosing to stop thinking about it, even for only a few minutes, can help. Maybe it can physiologically stop the wheels from turning in our brains - shut off that cycle that goes round and round. Then focus on something else. So perhaps the next time we start obsessing, we can stop sooner and again stop the cycle sooner. And each time the obsessing time gets shorter and shorter. I know I like to obsess and amost relish the mental pain I receive from it. It hurts so bad it feels good. That's not healthy. So we have to stop it.

Don't know if this has helped or not Wondering. I'm learning a lot from your post. Keep exploring what is going on!!!! :thumbsup

Bingo!
This is what I have to do when I get "stuck" on some particular thought or wish or fantasy or idea (pleasant or unpleasant). I have to learn how to STOP, and it's definitely been a process.

I've described this before, but I still use it and it still works for me. As if my brain is like a house and I'm free to wander through all the rooms, and my obsession of the day/week/month is some shiny pretty thing like a lamp or a sculpture. I keep walking over to it to pick it up and play with it. Whenever I find that "thought" in my hand, I consciously picture myself setting it down and walking away. I can pick it up as often as I will, but i make myself set it down as soon as I realize I'm holding it. I also try to distract myself - go into a different "room" so to speak. Give my mind other things to hold on to. Over time, I become more aware of what I'm thinking and I catch myself more quickly.

It's not foolproof, and it's not the only tool I use to deal with that sort of thought. FIGHTING it doesn't help as much as merely acknowledging, then "setting down". It can be helpful for me to listen to my internal dialogue, listen for the feeling that drives the thought. The thought itself isn't as important as the feeling under it. I can step outside myself a little now and observe my reactions to my obsessions, and watch those feelings.

My current obsession is not really about the subject - it's about the feelings underneath. My subject just draws the feelings out.

I know I go through phases where I'm extremely uncomfortable with my female identity. While my questions may be legitimate, the URGENCY of the thoughts is obsessive - it's all I can think about, I cry about it, my life will be miserable until this changes (and it will never change, BTW) and I hang onto that emotional distress. The longer I allow myself to spin with that, the more it will reinforce itself and the worse I feel. A lot of those feelings are about powerless, uncomfortable being "me", something's wrong with me the way I am, want different, want different NOW.

Over time, I've been able to observe those same feelings, that same intensity with several other "spins" I get into. I want to lose weight, I want to dye my hair, I want to move. Again, these may start out as legitimate thoughts - it's that intensity/immediacy that tips me off. especially if I hear a lot of "if" or "but".

Getting to those feelings offers me another tool I can use to untwist the death grip my mind can have on my thoughts. In some ways, it's a distraction, but it's a directed distraction. In my case, I practice "confidence skills". If I think I'm not OK, I can do something that gives me a sense of accomplishment. Even if it's something little, it gives me a feeling that "I can". That shred of self-reliance and self-affirmation can go a surprisingly long way toward unseating the obsessive feelings.

Note: I DON'T take my obsession on head to head with these self-affirmative actions. That just feeds it. I have to pick something unrelated if I want to shake in the right direction.

Wondering,
You said you didn't think any other person or people could replace your therapist without it becoming another obsession, but I disagree. This sound sort of like what my T tells me. When he makes a suggestion about taking care of myself from the inside I think and tell him it isn't the same. He still wants me to "try" it. I feel that is what is happening here with my suggestions to you. You argue it, yet you haven't tried it.

I still think you can get your mind off your therapist as a primary thought/obsession if and when you make more relationships and work on them and take risks so they become more important and intimate for you. This isn't going to happen overnight. You have to continue to nurture and call friends and make plans and get together. (I should be telling myself this) You have to experience talking openly with them and more deeply and laughing with them. I know this helps because I went somewhere last night and had interactions with several friends. I took some risks, hugged a few people, talked openly and I feel pretty good today and I didn't think about my T when I was there.

See, you are looking for a fix and there is none. It is with time and effort and over time it will get better. You are going to have to do the work though and then judge it later.