BPDRecovery.com: Forums

Jody its not about my preference - I said nothing about my preference. It's about deciding someone hates/dislikes/feels a certain way about you when that assertion hasn't been made.

It hasn't been said.

I'm talking about projecting you perception onto another. I'm talkiing about the issues you've been discussing in this thread.

Once you remove this projection, you may better understand what Denim wants.

It's up to you whether you make movement on this. You can go round and round and play with words and ramble about my preference if you want. But you'll make movement if you really want to go forwards.

Wow, I'm just shocked that you don't see it Sarah. Absolutely shocked. I think it's pretty blatantly obvious that Denim has expressed "hatred", or extreme dislike, disdain, whatever you want to call it, towards Jody. I see so much outrageous crap being spewed, skillfully and deviously subtle, yet obvious at the same time! I gotta say, I'm sick of it! And I just can't sit back and watch as people try to say that it's Jody's misperceptions, projections, etc. If anyone else was doing this crap, it wouldn't be tolerated. (And just to make it clear, I am not a member of any coalition on board, nor do I pm members to discuss what I see behind people's backs) I am a neutral observer of this and it has gone on much too long.

Jody, I think you are doing a great job not owning the shit of someone else.

Thank you, April! I wasn't going to get involved, but I agree with you. I don't understand why Denim is allowed to say such rude and inappropriate comments to Jody. I thought that kind of talk is against the ROE.

Jody, I admire you for not taking the attacks on you personally. I know I would have run away from here crying and in pain if I had been talked to in that way.

I'm afraid this is one situation where I must disagree with you April. What I see looks very very different to me.

well, i did run crying for awhile,,:)

then i sat and thought and realized what i was doing and repeating a pattern i had done my whole life. submitting and showing my belly to another to "keep" them happy". promising to never come near them if only it keeps them happy. that is a extremely invalidating, submissive response to something. i decided i was done with being that way. i can not do that and i can do it in a constructive, calm, manner towards someone.

and decided, as long as i do nothing at someone, i have nothing to defend.

i dont know about hate or dislike, or whatever one wants to call something. i just know what i meant by my using the term in the post.

sarah,i have no clue what denim wants from me. i suspect, but thats all it is and i have nothing to back it up with, so it wont be spoken.

i have not messed with denim , i have said nothing to her. if she wants me to not post in a thread she is in, that cant happen as its public and i think its unfair to push any other member off something just because another doesnt want them there. thats a bad precedence. it wont work on a equal board. anyone could begin doing that and it would become anarchy in a week.

how i see it sarah? i asked you because i might be seeing it wrong or something. when someone, a total stranger, comes up to me and voices such opinions about me, i consider it...well? dislike, certainly they have some problem about me they dont like.

i dont consider i did a thing to have someone come at me yet again with derogoratory comments about me as a person.

and to say this off the cuff, i wonder what would happen if this was someone other than me involved? and it went on so interminably...im just as tired of it as the rest of the board.

i understand denim doesnt like me as who she thinks i am. ok. can we move on now? the point was made clearly. now what? why is it continuing? i could choose to not answer, but i dont see that working since it hasnt in the past. so i choose to answer respectfully and calmly but firmly.

I'm sorry. I apologise then. I mustn't have read enough (I have to admit I haven't read anything of their discussions recently).

I sincerely apologise Jody.

your fine, sarah. no apology needed. i welcomed the discussion. i should be clearer on my slang..

ok, ibf just what do you see?

can we all talk like adults and end the innuendoes and veiled stuff? i deal much better with honest, adult conversation than this stuff happening.

say what ya think, anyone...call a spade a spade and lets move on!!! enough is enough of this.

ibf, you show me where i said something bad to denim, or about her. lets talk facts and such. say what you mean. what have i done to her?

honestly, we are adults people. can we not talk like it?

Okey doke. I'm not reading correctly.

In Denim's last post to you Jody on CC you replied saying enough of the hatred.

I do disagree with April and Wondering. I do not see hatred. I'm not going to say what I think Denim is trying to express bc I think that's up to you Jody to see.

I'm sorry about this confusion. I'm at work and very busy and I feel like for once I was getting somewhere with you Jody.

Your perception is yours. You choose to move if you want.

I really believe that once you stop with the hatred stuff (as opposed to asking Denim or others to) you may see what she's saying to you and you may make a significant movement with your PTSD. That's my opinion.

But you can always hang around and not try these suggestions and find yourself here in another 3 or so years time.

It's your choice.

I'm just saying it's what I see too, it's not just Jody. I am a neutral observer, not allied with anyone. I do believe those who do not see it are just not picking up on it due to the dry, unemotional posting style. I am just sick of it, and the last straw was the I/i questioning, which I see as a shot at jody because Denim has consistently expressed irritation with Jody's lack of capitalization and punctuation, and made snide, condescending comments about it. Of course she writes it in away that people don't recognize it as a shot at jody. Denim consistently gets away with talking about people behind their backs right in front of them, I think because people see her as so fragile they won't say anything. Denim doesn't hide her feelings about jody, she is fairly direct and cruel about it. I could copy and paste numerous examples but I won't. I am only saying that I won't stay silent as this continues on. It's not right. It's hurtful. And I'm a pretty level headed person and I tend to be rather blunt myself and i don't coddle people, but staying silent when someone is being treated so badly by one person who is in good with the boss is not okay.

hey good discussion sarah.

i explained the hate thing so thats already said.

the rest, sarah, i dont see it. good or bad, i dont see what she wants. she wants things i cant give. which is not post in a public thread, a very bad thing to set for the board in general not to mention unfair. it would squash learning if everyone could say im posting this but x y z and d can not post in it. that just wont work.

i have a hard time getting past the negative remarks about me as a person to see anything she is trying to get across. all i get is she doesnt like me as a person --fine. she doesnt know me but big deal, so she doesnt like me. we all dont like someone. we just dont have to keep repeating it in their face, but again, oh well. her choice. not helpful imho* but only my opinion of it.

i am the type who needs someone to come out and say what they mean. something i have and am trying to learn on here, as the slang thing i used was pointed out. say it, speak english, and lets move on. thats how i am. like i told ibf, say it. veiled remarks are not helpful. or useful for me.

veiled remarks, i just cant follow.

then someone is pissed at me cause i cant. well, im sorry but i need it directly said.

the other, i read as pretty ..whats the word? sarcastic...""""But you can always hang around and not try these suggestions and find yourself here in another 3 or so years time"""". do you really think im just purposely ignoring something to hang here? hardly. i bust my ass working on myself. but unless i UNDERSTAND what someone means...i cant use it.

im not plugging my ears and singing lalala on this...and its very hard to get past the negative labeling to get any idea what denim is actually saying underneath it.

i dont think most would know...i really dont think so.

that said, i hate this drama, i hate this going on and i wish it would cease and desist and things calm down. and people say what they mean and not have the underlying points that some of us cant understand. and dont blame us when we dont understand something.

ibf, i dont see how you think someone posting negative labels to someone they dont even know is helpful or even right but i have no intent of arguing or discussing it with you. you have the right to think what you want and believe what you will. as i said, you show me something i said or did. cause there is nothing i have said TO or about denim. or anyone, actually, on the board. if i dont like someone, i keep it to myself unless they come at me often enough. then i tell them openly and as respectfully as i can (and yes, i do try) cause i dont play mind games with someone.

the ones i have argued with, its all open and quite out there. you can see it in the archived threads. and we solve it and move on. every time.

ok, this is getting old. too much drama, too much crapola for me this time of night.

time to back off...away...out for tonite and hope tomorrow is quieter.

Ok. Give me a concrete example of the negative labeling - a quote with a reference to the thread it came from. Let's have a look at this.

ah sarah, i sent copies to some mods...it took me awhile to copy all of them.

hows about i pm you with it? it probably isnt good in public to do this....im not sure how and still abide by the rules...

gimme a min to copy some....

I'd rather you didn't if you don't mind Jody. Can you find a thread, on the board, quote from it and include the URL to the thread itself. One example. Just one. Please no excerpts from PMs. Is that ok/possible?

Perhaps a good quote to choose would be one from Denim's last post on CC where she cited her hatred of you.

i didnt mean excerpts from pms. i mean copies of quotes from public threads i would pm TO you. i would never use pms to another and dont even save them..i delete almost daily.

np, i will simply copy it here then. its cool. i dont want to get in trouble for this, sarah. and i think its against the rules. im trusting you on this. ok?

you want only one? i have pages. literally. pages of what has been said about me as a person. have you not seen any of those posts?

ok, one. from CC.

"""I do not think you are as stupid as you appear. Granted I don't find you particularly intelligent, but """ re candles copy of a comment in CC.

this mess began as a thread titled "regrets" which was about me. it has continued since so one example isnt as powerful as how many there has been over weeks.

one thing i note said was "i want you to leave me alone". i think i have, obviously the other person thinks i havent. we have differing definitions of "alone".

my life and my time on the board ...i dont think about this person. i post in public threads unless i need to CC someone. i have not said something about or to this person. that is my definition of leaving someone alone.

perhaps we need a common ground on what we both agree on constitutes "left alone". think that might work?

thats only one, and one i can live with. the sheer number is a bit difficult to handle sometimes.

sarah. i told you my saying hate was slang. altho my reply in CC was a response to the endless, weeks now of being told how much is wrong with me and labeling me with things like narcissist, ignorant, unintelligent, selfish, to name a few.

it isnt one word or line. it is this has gone on since the thread titled "regrets" jan 6th this year. it is now feb 22, sarah.

it is cumulative. obviously we have differing ideas on alone, and if someone can bring those 2 diff ideas together into one agreeable to both of us, we can settle this. thats my idea, anyways. i say we altho it was settled in my mind, i guess not in the others.

i have changed hate to dislike in reference to your post to me. i will stand by the dislike tho, its too obvious when one has time to read everything from jan 6th on that has been said over and over.

With all due respect, Sarah, I don't think that getting into a copy/paste thing here is going to be a healthy way to resolve this.

I do think there have been a number of occasions where Denim has posted stuff that appeared to some of us to refer to Jody. The "stupid" comment that Jody referenced above was direct. And inappropriate. Most of the other stuff was more veiled, e.g. "there is a member of BPDR who..." Some of this has been picked up by, and commented on to Denim, by members of the Leadership Team. And some has clearly gone unaddressed.

I really think that if you want specifics from Jody as to what she sees as hurtful, it would be best if she PMs the info to you. I'm not sure why you want to do this on the open board, where it's more likely that people will take sides and the conversation can get really ugly.

i do not want this ugly. at all.

i asked denim in CC if we could compromise on a decision that we both agree with on "being left alone" and we both can agree to it. and abide by it. i do think one issue we have is differing ideas on what we mean by it.

i hope she chooses to try.

Jody, you want direct? You want honest? OK, here is a beginning.

Your statements to me and to others about my simple post are a glaring example of the antagonistic approach you sometimes seem to take when somebody makes a statement disagreeing with you. You've been making statements like this to me and about me for two years except when I've been able to avoid you.



Here's what I see in this thread alone. The things you say to me here are quite a lot like the things you've said about me in the past. Like those you said about BFG. Like those you've said about Denim and others. Here's what I mean.

My statement to April was brief, plain, factual and TO APRIL.



So far as I can tell, it describes a very plain fact. The fact that on this matter, I disagree with her. No more than that.

In reply, the things you say...



So far, you have said that my simple statement of a simple fact:

- is juvenile or at least not adult like.
- includes or is based on innuendo, and "veiled stuff" and is therefore improper thinking or improper writing.
- is not honest and adult, therefore suggesting my thinking is not honest and adult.
- and for good measure, one more time, is not adult and therefore whatever I'm thinking must be childish.

Then... as though that's not enough, to make sure you vanquish the evil ibf monster of the north... in your next statement to Sarah (not directly to me... indirect.. to Sarah and anyone reading..)



so now you've added...

- my statement apparently doesn't "say what I mean" n. e.g. might not be honest.
- my statement involves veiled remarks .. repeat.
- I'm not sure here if your statement about "being pissed and singing lalala" is about me or Denim, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one..
- I'm not certain, but you seem to refer to my statement when you write that you don't understand the underlying points and that someone (me?) is blaming you for not understanding them.
- my statement, which says nothing about labels, suggests "someone posting negative labels to someone they dont even know is helpful or even right"
and of course, that "i have no intent of arguing or discussing it with you"

Well, now...

OK, there ya are. Eight things you said and did about the statement.....



while also saying you will not discuss it.

Now. May I point out that if you wanted to know if there was underlying meaning to my statement to April, you might have said... "ibf, I'm wondering what you are thinking about with your statement to April."

Sadly, Jody, this to my eye, seems a fairly regular and routine reaction when you don't like something somebody writes, no matter how innocent it might be. I think it's most inappropriate at BPDR

I'm sad if you feel the need to fight with people who disagree with you. I'm sad that you feel the need to defeat the evil that dwells in the hearts of bad sick people like me and others here... But although I'm sad, I also believe it should not be tolerated here. Straight out.

WHhhhoooooaaaaa there lil' doggies! ( :biggrin My turn to say that to you, hehehe...)

I am from a neutral territory living in the South now. I've seen first hand how that whole North vs South thingy is still going on. I can understand it but I also see it causing all sorts of conflicts because the two factions just cannot seem to lay down their arms!

That being said, before I went out to the land of cold and misery (part of that neutral territory - and I say misery because I dislike cold weather!) I read a post where Denim had taken a not so subtle pot shot at Jody.

I have seen a post in CC with a direct insult to Jody and her intelligence.

I saw the thread about I/i. I don't care about others writing styles. I care about my own.

So this isn't just about Jody's misperceptions about Denim. I am with April on this one.

I believe from what BOTH have posted on here was that they BOTH suffered greatly at the hands of a Narcissistic parent(s). From that horrible, terrible abuse, the two have adopted coping mechanisms. (God Almighty, I had an abusive childhood but what the two of them went through, hmmmmm ummmm ummmm, I cannot even begin to imagine.)

Jody's style is the opposite pendulum swing of Denim's and vice versa.

Telling either one of them to just snap out of that live saving coping mechanism is, well, unrealistic.

The two could really learn a lot from the other.


IBF wrote:



This, I think, is a different issue than what is going on with Denim and Jody.

Perhaps, if the best place to address this issue as you see it, IBF is in a CC or PM with Jody. To work it out and come up with ideas, workable solutions.

Just my suggestion and what I am observing. I am not part of any behind the scenes coalition.

Thank you, GH. Yes, they really are separate issues. They just happen to be part of one thread and to my mind part of a pattern that is inappropriate. Having gone through this several times before when disagreement has occurred I am simply no longer willing to subject myself to a string of direct and indirect character attacks about my thoughts and replies under the guise of claiming innocence and victimization. None. No more.

IBF wrote:



And yes, Jody, I have observed what IBF is talking about above.

NO ONE likes to be invalidated.

Learning to disagree with another's opinion while still validating that their opinion is valid to them is a very, very hard thing to do. At least it is for me. I figure it will take me the rest of my life. (And I want it yesterday let me tell you.)

Jody, I think IBF has pointed out an area that you can work on at your own pace, of course, and when you are ready.

(Can you tell that my role in the family was "Peace Keeper"? Hard role for me to step out of. So please, forgive me for sticking my nose in here but gosh, like just about everyone else, I want the drama to stop.)

I just don't see that. I really don't. I saw a question asked about a possible discrepancy in points of reference. One individual who perceives a form of communication based on a context that assigns a special value to a particular lettering. And lots of responses about each person's typing style. I just did not observe anything in that thread that struck me as snide, condescending comments. It would appear to me that comments from past threads are getting confused and projected onto a potentially unrelated thread.

Have comments been made in other threads that were inappropriate? Yes, and they have been noted. Were those comments made in the thread in question? I don't see it that way.

Edited to fix a premature submit

Minx, I think the post was done skillfully enough that the true motives behind the question went over most people's heads. I see the post as a valid question, inquiry, with a hidden agenda behind it. While someone could legitimately post such an inquiry about this topic with no hidden agenda, based on what has been going on here lately, I see it as more of an opportunity to express contempt for a writing style which is always used by the one person on the board with whom she has a problem, and has criticized before. Is it just a coincidence? I think not. I see it as baiting.

ah, Gh, insightful as usual. your right, i do need to work on that. along with everything else! seriously, it is a weak point with me. i do see it. i need to learn to speak more directly.

this thread has gotten way off its original point.

IBf i appreciate your replying. as i stated elsewhere, i am coming to decisions on how to respond to direct attacks on my soul and to do it respectfully and calmly. if you cant see how many times in threads i was called negative labels, then well, dunno what to say. being called them has nothing to do with how i choose to respond tho, and im learning that. you can also see i dont resort to calling them back. i try to learn to voice my pain at hearing them. (not easy as it sounds)

it isnt disagreeing i mind at all. it is someone assuming they know me and proceed to tell me how crappy i am that gets me after. what...jan 6th to feb 22? 23?> whatever today is. gets old, and i wonder how you would have coped. its like a record is stuck, and i want the needle raised (for all of us older generation who had records)

i have read and will think hard on the points raised. i have enough work to do on myself to last me another 55 years..i will be the most mentally healthy person in the rest home someday! hope i have a mind left at 110. lol.