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... [can] be managed] check.

How is everyone who finds themselves in conflict on this day doing with their own compassion, empathy, and, yes, even sympathy if that's what it takes, for those with whom you are in conflict.

This isn't about who did or said what to whom. This is not about who is right or who has been wronged.

Simply, are there areas in which you can show compassion or feel empathy (or at least sympathy) for the other? If so, are you showing it?

These concepts are not in the ROE's and are not mandated as a prerequisite of participating on the Board, per se and/or explicitely, (at least that I know of). But what about it?

i pmed you candle. ty for posting this. i couldnt agree more. this should be pinned.

you teach me your kindness, your compassion, your sweetness every time i read something you write. ty for that.

A great question, dear Candle.

For myself, I have become riled up a time or two during the past few weeks here, that's for sure. Strangely, however, when I check on my compassion, empathy and sympathy for those who exhibit behaviors I get riled up about, I find it's there in large measure. In each case, I see the behaviors being very similar to my own before I began recovery work. I've learned how much damage that behavior can do and have learned that it can be changed.

As for my own crappy behavior here, I'm going to promise myself to stop my practice of making sarcastic little quips when I see something I don't agree with or like. They don't help anyone, don't help the board and don't help me with recovery. I'll promise to look at my little post cheat sheet every time I post for the next two weeks. That should change the pattern, because it has before.

Agreeing very much with IBF's first paragraph.

I seem to swing from side to side. Sometimes I find myself very centred and capable of evenly distributed compassion, and other times I'm very self-focussed. I forget that others have a context and a reason to behave the way they do.

I see it often in other people here too, and I think this selfishness, this lack of compassion that I see people sometimes swing into, well, I think it's the result of having one's own feelings invalidated in childhood experience. That invalidation creates a need to be heard, to be validated, that is so strong that sometimes we forget that others have that need too.

My opinion anyway.

Well, Candle -

leave it to you to make such a post.. seems you are always the one that can come in and offer something comforting / some understanding and that is truly appreciated even if it's someone else's post I see/read it in.

I think my thoughts are pretty well summed up with probably more accurate wording than I could muster with Sarah's post. That said, I sorta feel it is worth it for me to try to voice where I've been.

I've gotten extremely riled by a few various posts of late. I've done pretty well at not posting in those threads, but the amount of feeling that has come up, has been extreme. When I have posted, I think it's been 'ok' but I think I could work on working thru it better.. and probably focusing more on where I'd like to try to direct things and therefore, how I can get there.

I was checking the ROE's again tonite which was good for me and probably something I need to do more of. I do think perhaps, I could stand to give more compassion- or at least empathy- toward someone(s) that I am riled up over.

Perhaps the key is, as Sarah mentioned, remembering that all of us are looking for validation in one form or another- and that most of us did not get this hence another reason for its importance. Wasn't validation a key aspect of Linehans treatment- validation while pushing someone toward change?

Better than usual.... but at the same time, still selfish about saying what I want to say. I'm having a hard time finding the grey area of what I want to say (which is not always what other people want to hear, sometimes does seem invalidating, but at the same time, isn't enabling), and having empathy for the other. I do understand where a lot of people stand I think, I am so centered on solving their problems, sometimes I seem to not be so good at validating.

Where's the line between having compassion and enabling? Not talking about in context with someone we're having a conflict with, but with someone who "uses" that compassion as permission to continue unhealthy behavior (whether or not they use it consciously, manipulatively)?

I ask because I find it difficult to maintain empathy/sympathy for someone who does this and since I can't change them, I'd like to change my thinking about them (it annoys me and I tend to devalue the person, which isn't fair to them, nor conducive to positive qualities in myself).

Thanks Candle for this post!

I used to say that even if I didn't agree with someone's point of view, I could at least understand where they were coming from. I don't know if that is true of me anymore. But I do understand about the validation part. I think for me, I often want so much to have my feelings validated that I don't think about what other people are thinking/feeling. So it's not that I'm particularly mean or selfish, I think I just want to be heard and understood. For some reason, the older I get, the more that need is there. So I guess I have to work more on understanding where other people are coming from, even if I don't agree with them. All this while I'm still trying to feel validated. It's not an easy task.

I'm sitting comfortably on OH's wagon for this one.

I have a history of reaching a place within a relationship where I feel like I've been bled dry, that the compassion well has been tapped and that all the sympathy & empathy in the world won't help the relationship because it appears (through their words, actions, etc.) that they prefer to remain stuck. I can 'feel for them' and 'understand where they're coming from' til I turn blue in the face but none of that changes the dynamic of the relationship. So if I've got the sympathy and empathy in place and I've doled out compassion by the bucket-full day after day after day to no effect ... I guess I'm wondering if there's any purpose to be served by continuing in the same vein.

Maybe the relationship should be ended or maybe a different approach should be taken because I really do feel like I'm giving all that I can, that I'm doing my absolute best, that I'm giving all that I have and nothing's changing or improving so I guess "why bother?" comes to mind.

I can keep doing the same thing (and getting the same (lack of) results) or I can walk away or I can change up the presentation style.

I think that a good number of times, either my demonstration of compassion, sympathy and empathy don't come out in the expected format or it's outright misconstrued. If these things - compassion, sympathy and empathy - are flowers, I think most people are expecting

When I'm offering

It's still a flower. It's still pink and pretty and delicate. It's just presented a bit differently, in a different location, seems more tricky to reach, etc.

candle, you offer so much. such a huge gift you have for the world. what would i do without you here? to teach me so much? im so glad your you. and here.

Candle, a very interesting topic with thought provoking replies.

Hmmm, in thinking about my RL situation with my Ol Sis, for her my compassion bucket has been tapped dry. It has taken over 40 years, but I am there.

It is easier for me to have empathy and compassion for a stranger than my Ol Sis.

Do I treat her with courtesy and respect? As best as I can, because she is a human being AND my Sis. It is my behavior, after all, that I can control. But can I treat her with compassion and empathy anymore? Hmmmmmm.

And yet, my Ol Bro still has compassion and empathy for her (or at least he treats her with such). He does and she calms down around him. He can talk with her when the rest of us cannot. (She spits vile, criticisms and insults to the rest of us. This is the Sis I believe is BPD with sociopathic tendancies.)

I think that there might be a lesson in there for me somewhere. The last time I was in Utah, I watched as my Ol Bro calmed her down. I watched as he showed compassion for her. It has been niggling at me since.

Thank you Candle for bringing this up!

This is interesting to consider since I am most in conflict with myself right now! LOL I don't think I have much compassion, empathy or sympathy for myself most of the time so I will need to think about this as I struggle with myself. I am not really sure what that would look like.

GH, how about this? when she spits venom , can you say, i hear a lot of pain in your words. nothing more. see what she says. and repeat it if you need to.

just a thing i learned in counseling and had forgotten till now. oops.

dont answer her words, as such. repeat hearing her pain. mirror it back. nothing more. perhaps she is crying out and like i was, doesnt know how to find it in herself.

i understand running dry of compassion. boy, do i. but try this. people lash out from their own pain. they know no other way. and maybe she is just a crappy lady who needs to hear how she sounds..

or say, her words straight back and let her hear how they sounded.

just a thought. hugs....