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I see this banded about often here, am wondering somewhat if my view is an unhealthy one, and yet at the same time, also consider this correlation to be what has brought me success in my day to day life. People are people online or offline is my opinion. Issues and situations that come up although pretty in intense form here are somewhat relevant to RL

Ok I keep hearing statements like, how can someone on line affect you so much, simply choose to not respond, or ignore, or your investment in online relationships is somewhat off kilter. I am somewhat confused by this. Is it not those reactions, and learning how to have better ones really therapeutic. Aren't these real reactions by real people behind these screens. Is this not practice for the real world? There are a lot of undiagnosed, untreated people out there!

I have had the great opportunity of visiting several RL Therapeutic Communities as treatment for PDs and well I have to say ever get the opportunity go take a look. If you think it gets heated here woah! Cummon how many times, have you read something and kicked the desk, reacted etc... then had the opportunity to go sit and calm down, sort through! How does that work in RL community? They don't they have to deal in the moment, as does the rest of the community get to learn to deal with their response to.

Hey I think this is pretty civil here mostly. Why do therapeutic communities work, see someone elses issue, realise I can't stand that, then hey a while later damn do you see it in yourself!

I have also heard that being online is perhaps more intense than being offline, well my trips to TCs would have to say otherwise.

I wanted to make the point, it is those that don't run, don't ignore, don't leave when emotions run high, that have a greater chance of recovery. It is facing up to conflict, working through the issues, that brings great healing.

So to me when the board gets a little heated at times, I often stop to think, wow this is great therapy.

I am not saying we should treat people poorly because they are just "online". I'm saying it should be even easier to not take things personaly when the person who is making you upset is not a part of your life that you are forced to interact with them. My mother, I have to deal with. Candle (yes, I chose the least offensive person I could think of) I do not have to deal with. If Candle says something I dont agree with, It should be easier to agree to disagree than it is with my mother who won't let things go. If I get all wrapped up in whether Candle likes me or doesn't, who does that help? If I keep trying and keep trying to convince Candle that I'm right and shes wrong, who does that help? I'm not saying We both couldn't learn from interacting, but at some point, the good of the outcome may not overcome the effort and pain caused by the interaction. Thats true in real life, if my Mother was hitting me, it may be best to get away from her too, it should just be easier online.

Kari can see your point when it heads down the road of what I call criminal matters like physical abuse, stalking, constant harrassment.

I am thinking though in general on a board like this how dealing with conflict, dsagreements based on personal opinion. Learning what you can or can't tolerate. Working through disagreements, challenging others to consider a different response / reaction, that is the work here. If everything is calm, civil and ordered what do we learn?

I am talking just general I guess when we feel something of ourselves is threatened the process of working through to the point of agree to disagree is really therapeutic. As uncomfortable as it may be at times.

There are also cases out there in RL where we have to learn when things over step the mark between dangerous and I don't wish to be spoken to in that manner.

No one can actually hit me here, as much as they might wish to, but at the same time, given that I see these people as real people it would be unacceptable also for me to push it to the limit of being abusive to another.

it isnt easier online, for me, because things touch the same part inside me. online, or "real". its the same pain, the same issues, thus i react the same. each person on here is very real to me. i see and "speak" to kari, to tracy, to whoever same as i would were they standing by me. i have no online persona, as such. this is jody. in the coffee shop, or on a keyboard.

so that is why, for me, its no different. its the same pain regardless. not easier, but that helps me learn and grow.

i do learn from the damndest pain, argh, who thought that solution up? lol.

but its very real to me. always has been. the only diff in "real" is physical presence.

I agree here jody very much



I too have felt real feelings reading and writing here. I don't consider the felings any different to if someone else said the samethings to me on my doorstep.

But I really do believe it it is that pain and the realisation being slowedsomewhat here havingthe time to sit and think some that helps me grow.

I have the propensity to take things personaly as much here as if someone doesn't something I say or do as I do if it is the bloke down the street or a friend.

I also have done some major learning here based on my own very real reactions to things that have happened, I have lost my temper fairly recently took it out on my PC actually. Then sat and thought damn if that person had been here what would I have done? I sure was angry. Was it at a computer screen or the words, the word spoken or written were the same. My reaction still was.

I realised something in that moment, I have that lash out reaction still, had the opportunity for lots of self challenging, I worked those tools so hard, hopefully I replied once those reactions had died down some, would not have been pretty had I done so tho. But the self realisation was what prompted the work.

I saw the work come to fruition all of a few days later when met with the same with an actual person here by my home, when I could draw on the work and speed up enough to say to myself don't lash out.

yeah, it is easier here to work on things more constructively. keeps me from clocking someone..lol. or breaking something. very true.

but i think it brings up the same pain regardless where it is or who it is. and the same solution will work here or in "real"..3D.

while quiet is nice, i seem to learn most from pain. not sure why that is, guess i have to face and feel the pain to heal some of it. and it takes me soooo freaking long to learn things.......sheesh. then when i see it, its like shit, how simple was that?

but i have a long way to go--maybe till i die. least i wont get bored..lol.

It seems to me it's not so much about internet versus in person, but rather casual relationships versus more serious (or committed, or whatever) relationships. I think there's a tendency to assume internet = casual. An assumption that if it's an internet relationship, it's a relationship where the other person's opinion shouldn't matter. But, really, internet relationships come in a spectrum of closeness and depth, just like in-person relationships.

I do think, both in-person and online that sometimes being highly emotional (hurt) over a disagreement is a sign of being over-invested in that relationship. But, it's about the particular relationship, not the format. And, like I said, sometimes. Not a simple black and white thing.

Also, seem to me that how hurt one is and how whether one chooses to walk away from a conflict or work it out are two different things. I can have my feelings hurt and say "hey, I don't think it's worth my time to work this out". Or I can have my feelings hurt and try to work it out. I can not be hurt, but still find it valuable to talk though a disagreement. Or I may be not hurt and also decide it really doesn't matter.

Because we all have control over ourselves, we control how much we allow into our lives. If Suzie says "You're a blithering idiot" and she's only online, while I may have a weak spot when it comes to being called names, having my intelligence questioned or anything else, it's ultimately up to me to determine how much influence I will allow the words of someone I've never met face to face, who lives half a world or 50 miles away, who doesn't work or live with me, who I won't run into in any social setting, who doesn't have any tangible, physical influence over my life.

If my husband or boss says "You're a blithering idiot" I still have the same choices about how much to allow the name-calling or intelligence-quetioning to bother me. The difference in the RL setting of the same words and trigger points is best summed up in "Consider the source."

Yes, people are real and Suzie calling me a blithering idiot came from a real person but she is terribly far removed from my daily physical life that the influence can be muted, should I decide it.

:thinkbefore This emoticon is there for a reason. We don't see it posted very much but I still chose to include it in the emoticon library to remind everyone who entered the emoticon area that these are real people we're dealing with.

We all know that recovery is a spectrum, and that we're all at unique places on that spectrum. Some people here may not be as far along as others which means they may not yet know what it means to have choices over our responses, may not have yet integrated the concept of boundaries into their lives, may not have done more than read about the tools.

My point is that this goes both ways. Some people may not yet be able to read Suzie's words and hold them at arm's length. ("If she said, it must be true and it's really not so I have to fight to the bitter death to make it not true!") Likewise, some may put words out there that don't really take into account that they are truly speaking to another person - it's just pixels on a screen, if we don't see someone crying then no one's hurt or upset.

This all goes back to Ruiz's first Agreement: "Be impeccable with your word" which includes avoiding using words to intentionally inflict pain or cause damage to others. If we say it, mean it, speak the truth and have good, positive, healthy intent, we've done our best (the fourth Agreement, btw.)

Ash's post is just so well-communicated, I had to comment. I certainly wish I could've summed it up quite so well.

I've been trying to say the same thing for weeks, realizing that it is either 1) my own lack of being able to communicate clearly (which is a big part of it), 2) the audience's lack of ability to either comprehend my statements, or lack of a WANT to comprehend my statements... who knows which (of course, Ash's posts often go unread or misunderstood, but she continues to post), 3) Lack of the other party to WANT to give me any respect (which could also go back to my own way of communicating). I'll just keep trying....

Especially "consider the source". I think that's what I was trying to explain when I was explaining my own way of how to stop letting others bother you online.