BPDRecovery.com: Forums

As I continue to sift through the rubble and work on redefining who I am, I've had a thought about something that was raised during the last week.

I said that "when I post my stuff in public, it's seen as weakness and people either freak out or pounce for an attack. Since they've felt victimized by me for a while, when I show a soft underbelly, people line up (or trample over each other, is how I think I put it) to rip me to shreds.

As I look at the threads, I feel like I was on-track with that basic premise.
I'm A Bad Person: 2 pages, 49 replies, 857 views
What's Going On: 3 pages, 70 replies, 1,498 views
Follow-Up As Promised: 2 pages, 36 replies, 537 views

And yet, during the brouhaha, more than one person told me that they thought I was projecting my expectations of perfection onto the rest of the community. That people here didn't really expect me to be perfect or always on top of everything or never make a mistake or have a meltdown. And yet ...

If I'm just one of the regular folks around here, not on a pedestal, not expected to perform wonders, not expected to be perfect, why then was there so much activity? Why was it so upsetting (to such a core, visceral level for some people) that I had a meltdown?

So I'm wondering now -- was I projecting that the expectations are there or do the intensity & fervor of responses all around indicate that the expectations exist?

Thoughts?

Before posting, please review at least the first part from Mobilene.

I'll write my usual little response.

I have seen dichotomous thinking. Either you're bad or you're good, rather than a person with good and bad qualities. Believe me, it's possible for a person to be very bad and very good at the same time.

Now I see that either you are just one of the gang or you are on a pedestal.

To me, you are not just one of the gang. You are the published author who started this board. However, this does not place you on a pedestal. I have never expected you to be perfect, in fact I have seen things go on in the past that I've ascribed to you being less than perfect.

The reason your meltdown alarmed me was because nothing you've done on the board in the past prepared me for the level of self-loathing you exhibited. The post seemed to come out of the blue. I don't read your journal, in fact I'm not entirely sure where it is, so I knew nothing about med problems and whatnot. I just logged onto BPDR and there was what I perceived to be a rant unlike any rant I've ever seen here. I couldn't make sense of it. And that's what got a visceral reaction out of me.

You are the one person here everyone knows the most about. Of course you are going to get the most looks, the most responses. How many of those responses were the ripping aprt you expected, until you said" no that's not what I meant!" You seem to be looking for ways to prove yourself right instead of admiting that not everyone here has a distorted view of who you are. Not that it should matter what our view is.

I suspect there may be some sort of vague unspoken expectation about the boss' behavior and that of those thought of as leadership team members and others thought to be recovered. We're all trying to get it right, and so we search for a picture of what right looks like. Well, the primary picture is blond, like it or not

We may all know and believe that Ash is human and vulnerable and is eligible for a meltdown like anyone else. But when part of our PICTURE of "getting it right" suddenly seems to be getting it wrong, it can be pretty unsettling even though it's perfectly acceptable that the PERSON get it wrong sometimes. Now if we were all a bunch of sad, boring "normals", one might expect us to deal with it calmly. But we're not sad, boring "normals". We're a buncha wild crazy lovable hooligans who I would not trade for the world!

Is it wise for us to make others a picture or symbol of what we're trying to do? Probably not. Is it natural? Yep. We all need clues and symbols to help us with our search for meaning and the right path.

I for one was not particularly concerned about a meltdown. I was sad that you felt so badly. I didn't know how to do the right thing in response, so I chose to do nothing after the first pillow joke. I was pretty sure you'd come around and grab the rudder in short order.

From this I concluded that no one person or group here is a reliable picture or symbol for recovery.. It's behaviors I have to look for. One here, one there. Things I can steal and bring into my life that are more effective than the behaviors I have now. It was a great reminder to me that nobody... not our T, not our Ash, not our "friends" here, and surely not the SCL/CL team members is gonna always get it right.

So I have to put the expectations and projections both aside and follow my own advice... "take what works for you (me) and leave the rest."

Can we get a link to that page in some place that's in front of our face no matter where we are? Perhaps in the Tools box? Or it's own box just above or below that? That way I can see it when I really need it most... when I'm typing a post, like now.

Thanks IBF. That's the balance I was looking for. How do you manage to get it right? Can you move into my brain please? I'm thinking of cancelling the lease on the ten grey squirrels living in there now.

Hell, no. Me luvz watching squirrels chasing each other around the tree. They are so damn funny!!!!

IBF, I really like your post.

Ash, it occurs to me, it can be both.

Also, I don't think a lot of replies means people expect you to be perfect. Not that there aren't individuals with that expectation, but there are various different reasons for replying, I think.

I can also assure you that some of us don't expect you to be perfect. For me, you aren't an exception to the "nobody's perfect" thing. (I won't, however, say I'm incapable of expecting someone to be perfect. Time will see whether or not I'm over that. )

Great post, ibf (the one at 4:14, in case there are six more by the time I finish this). And Ash, lol about the squirrels.

I was like ibf -- sad for you, confused, but confident that you would be able to get yourself back on track, maybe after a little break from here. I knew that you were under a whole lot of stress with job, school, etc., so even though I couldn't imagine what would set off such a terrible self-flagellation, you've worked through tough situations many times before.

I think most people were genuinely concerned about you, though some were afraid for themselves ("oh, no, if Ash can lose it like this even when she's recovered, how can I ever hope to learn to contain my own meltdowns when I'm so UNrecovered") and others were perhaps gleeful in a way ("hah, I KNEW she wasn't as healthy as she thinks she is and this proves it"). The notion that you were putting us all to some sort of sadistic test, I didn't get at all, but it was out there. So yeah, there was some projecting going on.

I do think that it seems to you that every time you risk showing your underbelly, there's this huge over-reaction, that people *do* rush in, pile on, the threads get endless, and yet you don't get what you were looking for. This was probably the worst time yet, but on other occasions you have also gotten frustrated when you've made posts that challenge the idea that you're this totally put-together person who breezes through every rough patch in your life. But generally, except for the people who get angry and tell you to grow up, I think most everyone is operating from a position of true concern for you. They really do want to help you, even if they are feeling a bit afraid or whatever. They just don't know how.

It's often really hard, when you're in a world of hurt about something, and you need something from others, to articulate exactly what it is that you need. I know it's a problem for many people here, and I think it plays a part in what goes on with you. When you're melting down and you post, you may know exactly what it is that you're looking for in response, but it's not clear to everybody else. I know that for me, I've read your posts and thought, OK, here's what I'd tell her, and it turns out, after the blowup is over and the dust starts settling, that I'm way off target. I didn't read you correctly at all, and neither have a lot of others. And that, of course, just makes whatever you were feeling that much worse, and it's topped off with frustration because we don't get it.

In this case, I don't think *anybody* could get where you were coming from. Your posts were so totally unlike anything we'd ever seen from you. Plus, what it seemed you were asking for -- for people to dump on you -- just didn't seem right. Most everyone couldn't do that, at least not in the way that you apparently wanted it. So they offered their concerns and their "niceties" instead, and that made it worse for you. And everything escalated.

OK, I've gotten off track here, been interrupted by a bunch of phone calls, and a whole lot of time has gone by since I started typing this -- there are probably quite a few new posts since then, and maybe this won't be in any kind of context now. So I'll quit.

One last thing, I did read Mobilene's post that you linked, and I completely second it, again. Great advice. But it's hard, when somebody seems to be asking for something, seems to be in great pain, to step away and tend to our own stuff. The first instinct is to try to help the other, even if our own shit is getting stirred up. And here, because it seemed difficult to figure out what you were needing or to follow through with it, everything went from bad to worse.

OK, I'm done rambling here.

In the "internet culture" I'm a big part of, there's a particular term- BNF, or "Big Name Fan". They're someone EVERYONE knows, either because their fanworks are very popular, or because there's just something out of the ordinary about them, or whatever.

I was a BNF for a while. After I scored myself a stalker (and not in a good way, either) I hid until I was "forgotten"; it didn't take very long, due to the nature of that culture. There's always something new and shiny.

However, I also know someone who is a current BNF. She's got a lot of fans, but a lot of people who dislike her just because. The girl can't take a shit without her 'fans' rallying around her, proclaiming how it smells of roses. That same action will cause those who dislike her to FREAK. I've seen her actively slandered by these people every time she shows a moment of weakness.

Now, I DON'T THINK that your situation is the same as her's. Most of the people involved in this are immature tweens who love video games. This arena is a lot more mature and a lot more serious. That's not the comparison I'm drawing.

The similarity there, between my friend and you, is that you're both high-profile people. Everyone here knows you. Thus, almost everything that you do is going to get a response. Even in the short time I was a BNF, I saw that same dynamic.

If you're well known, you're bound to get more reaction.

Another part to it, other than being very well known, is the draw of drama. I do it, I know others do it, too. Rubbernecking is almost a natural response for some people. It's even more "attractive" when the person is well-known.

And finally, I really think that some might have been watching it so closely to see how you would handle it. I think you ARE seen as being recovered, if not perfect. People may have wanted to watch and see how YOU do it, because you've "figured it out".

I agree with others here. I saw behavior that I had never seen in you. I felt bad for you. I was in no way thinking of myself - e.g. if SHE could act like this, what will happen to me? No, I was just concerned for you and hoping you would feel better soon. I didn't understand the part about you wanting us to dump on you and I would never throw stones at you. So I guess my feeling was "concern." I view you as anyone else here - a human being with problems. Whether your problems are worse or less than any others, I don't know. It's none of my business. But I feel you have the right, as all of us do, to share your feelings and thoughts here. Heck, if you can't share them, who can? You started this board! I would hate for you to feel stifled. So no, I don't view you as weak. I view you as a person who at times needs to share how she's feeling. There's nothing wrong with that.

I did the same thing I do in the event of a horse stampede: I got out of the way and waited for the dust to settle. More often than not, the horses stop running and kicking and are ready to file though the gate in an orderly fashion in no time at all and with very little effort on my part. Once they are all caught and hitched to a post, then I can tend to the feeding and saddling. There is no way I am jumping in the middle of a stampede and expecting to come out uninjured. I did get run over once by a draft horse, ironically named "Gotcha" (he was a biter), when I could not get out of his way fast enough and ended up with a broken foot. I am just not into the months of limping that results so I find it best to move fast in the opposite direction!

To be completely honest, I used it as an avenue to have my say. I had issues with some things in the past, and when I had my say, I felt better, as if I had put my cards on the table. The same things bothered me that you were discussing, and they were causing me stress when I came to the site, because it seemed like a bunch of unacknowledged problems going on. I wasn't sure if you saw the same things I did, but when I saw that they were being acknowledged, I released my own stuff as well. Before that I never really got any validation of whether I was right or wrong, and in that case, it was affecting me. Did it exist or was it just something I was thinking and feeling? Was it realistic? Yes, there were some things brewing, and I wanted to make sure you knew that. It made me feel uncomfortable. Why was it necessary to me for you to acknowledge that? I don't know yet. Maybe because I thought that was a necessary step in having more trust in you, that you thought that was important, that I wanted to know that you viewed things in a certain way. I think within the last few weeks that I have gained a lot of trust in you, and I think that was one reason. Your meltdown led to my trusting you more lol, so some positive came of it.

I like it that you have done a lot of hard work and you have high expectations. It pulls me up. One thing that I have found really bothers me lately is to see people who want to pull down others here or pull down the community. It doesn't bother me if you expect others to achieve to the levels you have. I understand and expect it. It gives me something to strive for. How exactly is having high expectations on another going to hurt them? If someone could give me a reason, I'll be a listener.

Well, they do line up to rip you to shreds when they get the opportunity. I mentioned that in another post. Some of them do. I've seen it in action. I figure some of them may still have their own problems with authority. It's also an anti-social trait to hit someone at their weak point. Antisocials love it. At the same time, a lot of people want to bring others down because it makes them feel better - it validates their own existence to see you have a meltdown. The "she's not perfect so it's ok if I'm not recovered, or that she has achieved more than I have." And maybe if they do it enough, you might lower your expectations and meet them in the sewage they live in - misery loves company, and that would be their greatest feat. :/

Also, if you expect yourself to be perfect, I don't see it here. I see you trying hard, but I can only know what you say. And you haven't ever expected me to be perfect....