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I mean, thinking about this:

Is that being impeccable with one's words? To tell you that other's are talking about you? Where does that leave you in the relationship with the others? Where does it leave you in the relationship with the "tattletale"? Can you really trust that "tattletale"? How does the "tattletale" know? Is the "tattletale" pretending to be friends with the other?

Can you trust that "tattletale" who pretends to be friends with others? Or is the situation different? Can SCL's read others PM's on here? Is that how you know for a "fact"?

I am not pulling any punches here. I really want to know how you know.

No.

Gossip can be a vicious thing.

Trin, I think it's great that you took some time to reflect on the situation and respond after reflection rather than react.

Jody, to your point, there are situations when confrontation works. Then again, some situations are actually better resolved without confrontation.

The most important thing to do is decide for oneself what works best. And who knows, there could be confrontation in one situation and no confrontation in another.

It's not black and white. It's very, very grey.

GH,

Did I miss something? Did Trinity say this happened at BPDR? If so, I'd certainly be curious.

Absolutely - it IS all about picking your battles. Is this something I will benefit from if I stand up for myself or no? A little bit? Not so much? How much am I emotionally invested in this? What are the pros and cons? Will this help me in my own recovery?

But I DO want to know if PM's are PRIVATE or no?!?

No, I did not say where this happened. It's irrelevant to my emotional issue. This thread is about ME and how I feel and how I think. Not about anyone else. And that's really the point. The others don't matter in how I live my life and make my choices. It's about not taking things personally.

Yeah, good point Nik, I don't know if it was on here or not.

But I have heard others wondering, scratching their heads if you will, if PM's are private. I'd like to know.

thank you, Nik. that is what i meant.

btw, i began a thread about the word betrayal. i am interested in your views on this happening to someone. tyia* if you do post.

oh, trinity said this """What I'm saying is that I do not see an upside to confronting people who in the grand scheme of things won't don't truly matter to my emotional well being""". therein is a communication issue...i didnt mean the people mattered to ME, i meant it mattered to MYSELF if i allowed it or didnt.

very few people really matter to me in the scheme of my life. but i matter hugely to myself.

Jody, you use the word allow. And I think this is why you and I make different decisions in this regard. I can't control anyone. So I can't allow nor disallow anything. The continued action, in this case, doesn't affect my life.

Now, let's say this happened at work with someone who I deal with day in and day out. That I couldn't minimize the interaction. Then I do believe it can be appropriate to say, "Hey, look. This is happening. It makes me very uncomfortable and can lead to misunderstandings. I'd appreciate it if you stopped." But when it comes to online interaction, I don't have to live with this person. I don't have to see this person every day. This person can't say things that will lead me to lose my job. So, in this case, I consider a confrontation giving up my power to people who don't truly matter in my life.

Another situation where I may confront someone is if it was someone who I considered to be a friend. It's worth it to me to spend some time and energy clearing up the issue because I care about that person. My point is not giving away power to people who don't mean a thing in the grand scheme.

Yup, that is it. Will the 'confrontation' leave you with more self respect or less? Will it be effective? Will it leave the other with self respect as well?

So many pros and cons that sometimes, it is best to leave something, and come back at it at a later time. As Trinity did. She decided that it had little to do with her emotional well being. The people talking smack about her had little to do with her in RL (I guess, don't know) and their opinions of her weren't valid to Trinity.

"What others think about me is none of my business" is a good one. But what you think and feel about yourself is important.

Another saying, "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup." Meaning, pick those battles wisely! And we ALL make mistakes picking 'em, ya know? Everyone.

Last I checked, PM means Private Message. I am an SCL and I do not have the ability to access any private messages exchanged by BPDR community members.

Given the topic of this thread, I find it really ironic that people would wonder if PMs can be read though.

no, i dont get what you mean and you dont get a thing i mean.

i do not mean shit about another when i say confront. i mean what i allow done to ME,....not another's behavior or changing or stopping. by the time i would choose to confront someone in my own way, their acts are already done. be kinda stupid of me to think i could control another when the cat is out of the bag, i think. i am talking about me. not them. i really dont care what they do, or dont. i do care about myself, and what i allow or dont without speaking up in some HEALTHY way.

sometimes i guess my type doesnt come across, and sometimes i think people underestimate my mind.

we dont agree. its fine. i will never be a roll over, show my belly, let someone kick my ass without saying a thing, type person. i just wont. you wont be like me. i have no problem with that.

"""
So I can't allow nor disallow anything. The continued action, in this case, doesn't affect my life. """. im glad it doesnt affect your life. and I, can allow or disallow a helluva fucking lot if i choose.

imho only*

"""So, in this case, I consider a confrontation giving up my power to people who don't truly matter in my life. """ i already asked this but i will again. how is that? please explain it to me. perhaps we have a diff idea of confronting.

i dont see how standing up for myself is giving up a thing. how do you see that? indeed, letting others use "negative adjectives and nouns and phrases" to me is what got me the helpless victim to begin with and lost my power. until i decided that wasnt happening, then i got my power back. allowing it is what hurt me.

tyia*

((((Jody))))



Trinity makes a really good point. If I say something nasty about my H, it wasn't because he "allowed" it, I just said it. As one who has a huge emotional investment with me and our relationship, my H might choose to say something to me about it. For clarification, out of respect for himself, for me, for our relationship. Or, if I am in the middle of "acting out", he may chose to ignore it. It is very situational.

If my FIL shows up at my door, it isn't because I "allowed" it. You know what I mean? He's been told not to do that. The boundary has been set. It is HIS choice on how he behaves after that. I set a boundary and let go of the outcome.

I ask X to please stop stepping on my toe. X doesn't stop but stomps down harder. Not because I allowed it, no! But in seeing that X is interested in hurting me, that is when I can distance myself from X. (Emotionally, physically).

I think Trinity pointed out that X & Y stepped on her toe, so to speak. It hurt but she moved away without saying anything. Her impression was that X & Y were stepping on her toe on purpose. (Trinity, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, off base here, ok?) And since X & Y had little if any impact on her emotionally/physically, she blew it off.

Am I on track here or on 2nd base or even out in left field?

You're right on track, GH.

Jody, I need to ask. Is this thread upsetting you? You seem to be using some emotionally charged language and I wanted to check.



Do you think this is what I'm doing by not saying anything? If so, then we do have a basic values difference between us.

upsetting? no, i am still excited over the fact i learned how to handle something without ignoring. and its ok!

im just intense and no doubt, forgot where i was and how i was sposed to sound.. my bad! so sorry!

bad to the stiff jody now....lol.....


did i say that is what i thought you were doing? no. what you choose is your business. i only wanted to mention one, there is a choice and sometimes confronting someone (key word...sometimes...) does not mean im a victim. and two, i have asked a question twice and no one has answered it, so i guess either no one wants to, or no one can.

either way...differences are fine. i swear, i said that in a post earlier.......

i just wanted a question answered...and it isnt going to be, i guess. maybe in my betrayal thread it will be...i hope.

i also was getting my point across, and i tend to be intense when i do. again, im sorry.

Why do you find it so ironic?

I don't trust the PM system here, in the slightest. I was quite amazed recently of acusations of private coalitions, that unless one was actually a part of such a coalition, LOL, then how could one know they existed?

Or are there secret spys and tattle-tales (and would such a person be somebody worthy of my trust?) or is the PM system being monitored by the admin team? I couldn't figure out how one could know about all this private stuff - or maybe they're psychic?

Or was it in fact all projections? It sounds more feasible that there is a coalition/campaign amongst the admin to remove "the undesirables" than there is a coalition of members trying to tear down the place or other people.

I'm not sure why you find this question ironic? How can you know somebody was talking about you behind your back, if it was behind your back?

I know this may seem a bit off topic, but I agree with Amanda on this one.

Trinity, was it something said about you on HERE by two others? If it was on HERE, how do you KNOW? It is a valid question and one that needs to be addressed.

It hasn't been very long ago that "coalitions" were brought up on here. Perhaps many of us are still a bit sensitive to that. Because, HOW would anyone know about "coalitions" if PM's are private? Can you track who clicks on my E-mail link? I am thinking that this website provides for that.

I KNOW for a fact that computer addresses are tracked by SCL's/CL's. (That is how Mobilene found out his X - X's friend were 'spying' on him here. Hence his mentioned trepidation about posting his threads publicly.)



Exactly. Yup. Indeed. Couldn't agree more.

Many of us just don't "trust" many CL's/SCL's anymore after this whole "coalition" accusation. This is a heads up to SCL's an CL's - I don't trust many of you anymore. I am not alone.

BPDR took a toxic turn somewhere with this whole coalition "us" and "them" kind of BS.

OK, PM's are private. Then how come one I sent to another just disappeared? One sent to a SCL? It just fucking disappeared with NO COPY left in my sentbox. An oversight on the program's part? Or some funky business going on?

SCL's and possibly CL's have the ability to edit posts. I've seen it done time and time again. So, what other abilities do you have?

Trinity bringing this up NOW is truly ironic.

I didn't want to assume and that's why I asked. You weren't doing anything wrong.



Again, I didn't want to assume. So I asked. Now, my next question is do you feel that's what you're doing when you don't confront? Rolling over and showing your belly?

And stop apologizing!! You have nothing to apologize for, girl.

As for the rest, this has nothing to do with PM's or this board. It has to do with MY feelings, and MY reactions, and MY responses and I resent where some of you are taking this thread. I think Ash is right and none of the SCLs can work on their own shit in the public forums. So, I'm leaving this thread. I'm actually sorry I turned to the board for help. For those who actually tried to understand, thank you.

Trinity, I want to say that I think you handled yourself beautifully and it was an excellent example of not taking things personally. Not only did you not take things personally, you had a solid sense of your genuine self and recognized that words spoken by people you have no respect for do not have any power over you. You let go of the situation and moved on with the knowledge that you need to avoid such people in the future. Nothing these people say about you in the future will be able to hurt you because you know they are so full of shit that you don't want to have anything to do with them. It is too bad that the thread went off topic when it should have been about you and your specific situation.

I think that what you pointed out about it being difficult for those on the leadership team to work on issues in public forums is valid due to the way topics get so twisted and the focus gets lost when other people's stuff keeps creeping into discussions that are not about them. This thread is only one example of that happening and I can see how frustrating it has become for anyone, not just community leaders, to bring up topics for discussion. I wish you and others could benefit from the community the way it was intended.

Trinity, it's disheartening to me that you're leaving this thread feeling that you cannot discuss your feelings on the board. I see why, I just feel badly that it's gotten to that point.



jody, I'm thinking needing to answer childish or petty behavior can be constrUed as a victim mentality...

<hr>
I was in line at the Customer Service counter in Targét. A woman elbowed past to get in front of me.

Me [nicely]: "'Excuse me - there's a line and I am next."
Her [loudly]: "I don't care, you *&%$*! I never heard such ridiculous *#$%&*! Back off, *$&%*!"
):)


Me: "There's no need to be nasty... if you're in a hurr..."
Her: "Don't you tell me *#$%&*, you *@#&%*"
:shock

I looked at her in amazement as she made her way up to the next cashier before me.

<hr>

Sometimes the situation will not be resolved by typical 'conflict resolution'. Sometimes it will, in fact, escalate. Sometimes cooling down, reflecting on whether this party is worth your effort, holding onto your own idea of integrity in the face of what you believe to be a lesser level of integrity is better than responding at all.

Sometimes it's better to say Mean People Suck, and move along.


~ jr

i dont think its yall cant work on something. i think its a lot here have questions no one answers and when we have someones attention, we grab it and use it.

like you trinity, leaving the thread instead of talking to us. you asked me questions and left without giving me a chance to respond. i dont think thats helpful. i was liking the way we all were trying to figure this out.

maybe its because none will answer us when we want to know something. ..and it shows a lack of trust in this place which has been here in the past, and never taken seriously. some of yall seem to want help when you want it, and then scatter when someone asks something about how this board is done. that just wont work in the long run. the questions dont go away, they just go under and pop back up when something happens.

maybe its the idea of how secret some of the leadership things are,,,then you want to be counted as one of the crowd when you have a problem. how many times have i heard "stop asking, jody" . its hard to not say look, a mod! lets ask while she is listening. yep, im a asker.

just guessing here. i dont trust the pms and dont care --i figure they can be read. when i had my board, i could read em. so i dont say squat in pm anymore. regardless. i also doubt it would be admitted anyways.

i think you cant have it both ways. someone who keeps secrets, and yet needs support. i dunno.

back to what Gh asked me, i hope she hangs around to see what i answer. no, GH, yall dont get what i mean. i dont mean allowing or not someone ELSE. i mean for ME. standing up for ME. telling someone i dont like their words. its for me, not them. not allowing. not controlling. its my way of standing up and saying im a person, damn it. and your words sounded wrong. whether they like it or not, or listen or not, isnt the point.

exactly what i was taught in counseling to do with a abuser. we dont have to either take it or be quiet.

situations are very different. no one thing will work for all. at times, the answer is speak up respectfully but firmly.

sorry amanda, but you saying """ How can you know somebody was talking about you behind your back, if it was behind your back?""" just struck me so funny and so true. we had a case here , murder, and the guy was shot in the back. the jury returned a not guilty by self defense verdict. lol. rightttt.

if all this was hidden, by all i mean behind the scenes stuff, i dont know and never heard about...then how is it known? the dumbest thing one can do is listen to 3rd party gossip. hearsay. if it isnt said to my face, i consider it didnt happen. but things are all stirred up on stuff i musta missed somewhere down the road. can we only stir up and get pissed on facts maybe? no hearsay?

this thread is gonna be locked, i feel it coming, but i guess this stuff needs to be said, and gotten off some chests. maybe even solved someday!

depends on the confrontation, Trinity, as to whether i feel im rolling over. some, yes, i have to confront . some i couldnt care less. depends on how long it goes on....who it is...many things. not one size fits all....

GH. if FIL shows at your door, it isnt because you allowed it. however, if you get angry and bitch every time he does it for 6 months, yet do nothing , then your allowing yourself to roll over. see what i mean?

sooner or later, we all have to demand respect. we may not get it, but we did demand it. and that is for US. our esteem.

Feeling 'safe' and encouraging a safe environment on any mental health message board is pretty high on the list of priorities, I'm thinking -- both for members and admin. I'm thinking an administrator who not only provides the venue, but also knows first-hand the necessity for that sense of safety would hold themselves to a pretty high standard where that's concerned, not to mention they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they were to compromise it.



That last sentence I quoted is probably exactly why there's been talk of coalitions. Believe me, as a relative newbie, one doesn't have to read PMs to observe, um, 'differences'.


respectfully,
~ jr

GH I appreciate this is bringing up BPDR stuff for you. If you'd like to discuss your concerns in greater length I invite you to open a new thread rather than get off the topic of Trinity's issues here. I personally would be interested to hear more about the concerns you've raised and give you some answers to your questions.