BPDRecovery.com: Forums

I too would like to comment on what Smilin mentioned about periodically Ash, picking out a topic or behaviour that she admits to knowing nothing about and then starting some heated discussion with a bunch of negative opinions, that in effect alienates a whole group of people into the "them" and "us" categories; and I'm at a loss to see why she does this? I'm not sure how this would be seen as "using the power of ones word in the direction of truth and love."

I agree, I too have yet to see and understand how invalidtion or humiliation helps a person (I mean didn't we all get the way we did because of that?)

If I don't understand a topic, then I leave it to those who do. If I cannot for the life of me wrap my head around something, then I accept my limitations - this is something I don't understand and do I really need to understand it? Will the world stop if I can't understand something? Will the world stop if I can't relate to every person I meet?

I also was pulled up on the it's not cool to talk about people on the board, behind their back, without mentioning names scenario, yet these discussions that Ash starts are obviously about people here; and yes I see it as a double standard.

I was very upset when talk became personal and almost hostile. I was waiting for a moderator to break in (yes, like the word Moderator too). I felt someone needed to step in a put a stop to the constant barrage of negativity going on. One person going at the other with no stopping.

At one point, I too decided to stop talking to one person. Now, in retrospect, I can't even remember why. But I decided to stop. Of course that didnd't last long. I remember responding later on to something that person posted - something I must have agreed with and gave her some support in what she said. So for me, I know it's not practical for me to say I want to stop talking to a particular person. I also don't think it's fair for one person to ban another from their threads. So if Person A says she's not going to post to Person B, does that mean that Person A can't respond to SOMEONE ELSE in Person B's thread? Gosh, it gets awfully sticky here. It's almost laughable! And how in heck can the moderators keep in their heads whom is speaking to whom or not speaking to whom at any given time? That would certainly boggle my mind!

I think it would be easier, lets say, that if a certain post upsets you or triggers you, just stay away for a while. You don't have to make a grand announcement - just stay away for a bit and cool down. Then eventually you can come back.

I know for a fact that I have had heated discussions with a few people here, and then the next day will post on a thread they wrote, giving them support and telling them what a good job they're doing. So of course I will not permanently stay away. I don't see too many of us doing that for too long. When you get down to basics, we all have too much to offer each other.

But getting back to the above quote, yes, I think a Moderator should have stepped in before things got too out of hand. I hate to see people picked on. There has to be some middle-ground here. It's one thing to call someone on their behavior - it's another to name-call and cast judgments, etc. We do not walk in each other's shoes. What might be right for me might not be right for another. I can look at someone and say grandly " I know what's best for them" and proceed to pontificate and give them my wonderful views on how they can best live their lives. But I DON'T live their lives. I can offer suggestions for a few things, but I have to respect what they ultimately decide to do. If I don't approve, well, so be it. We CAN offer help, but I think we need to do it in a somewhat humble way. I know I tend to go off and behave as if I have all the answers - well, I don't. I gotta remember that.

Maybe the moderators can use respect as a rule of thumb. It's one thing to call another on something. It's another to be rude and disrespectful. And to tell you the truth, as I said before, it's very difficult to remember who you're speaking to and who you're not. And it's not fair to ask someone to keep away from any post. You don't have to reply to the person who doesn't want you near them, but i'll be darned if I'll stay away from the entire post. That's too selective and not fair. I would never have the nerve to tell someone they can't respond to post in a thread I start.

We must remember respect and also think of how we would want to be treated. And yes, it is the moderators job to jump in and stop disrespectful rude behavior. I don't see anything wrong with that and I would hope it could help us here.

This is a lot to respond to and it is late (well, I suppose 3 am is technically considered "early") so I may not say as much as I would if I had more time. What I do want to say is that I don't think it is the job of the leadership team to take sides if two people are dealing with conflict. It may happen that one member rallies for support in order to get others to take responsibility for the dynamics in a relationship but I truly believe that it is up to the individuals involved to deal with the situation directly whenever possible. I suppose where I get stuck is how to state the negative in a more positive way and not lose the impact of the message.

I thought I was being considerate by not speaking about a person directly and addressing specific behavior instead of the person but I see that it is not effective and I will be able to get my point across much easier if I just confront people directly by talking to them instead of about them. If someone is able to recognize their own poor behavior and yet put all their energy into defending their actions, then they are not really getting it anyway. I would not have had to be so repetitive if I had not been working so hard at protecting Jody's identity in the Regrets thread (which I have not even looked at again since it fell off the list of recent topics). If I had realized that so many people on the board could tell that I was talking about Jody with mere descriptions of her behavior, I would have been far more direct.

At the same time, if I was doing something wrong by speaking up about something then I would want to know about it. I value the opportunity to do reality checks with people I respect. Just because Jody says she is being mistreated, that does not indicate that she is being mistreated. According to Jody, she is a scapegoat for the entire community so I am no more to blame for mistreating Jody than anyone else here, including those like Candle who dared to mention her by name. According to Jody, she is the focus of everyone's attention and we would have nothing to talk about if she were to leave. It does not matter how many people have left BPDR because of Jody, she has the right to be here and post as much as she wants. She can say whatever she wants because it is her "inner child" acting out while Jody is the victim. There is a clear double standard where Jody is concerned and she is the one who manages to get away with poor behavior year after year because no one expects any different from her. Everyone else is expected to follow Jody's rules because if Jody's feelings get hurt and she acts the way she does when she is triggered, it is everyone else's fault so Jody does not have to take it personally that her behavior is unacceptable.

I had not asked anyone else to enforce my boundary with Jody but it became obvious that she was not going to leave me alone. I think I will be better off taking back the power to confront her on this in the future. At this point, there are clear indications that Jody is not capable of honoring the personal boundaries of other people and so I will no longer keep the distance between us as a means of protecting myself. It is not possible to ignore Jody when she dominates the board the way she does so rather than not paying attention to her, I will give her the attention she seeks. It is not fair for an entire community to walk on eggshells for fear of setting off one person. As long as Jody is allowed to show her true colors here, her tirades continue to be incredibly revealing about the kind of person she is as opposed to the type of person she claims to be. After all, actions speak louder than words. If Jody is not willing to leave me alone, then I am not willing to give her that courtesy either.

Hopefully we will all be better off if we can talk about things directly without needing to used veiled references anymore. I feel better already! LOL I have engaged in private conversations with members of the leadership team and other members of the board about the best way to deal with Jody and no one has had any suggestions about what would be effective, except that ignoring her would be best for me personally. We are all seeing the same thing but no one can come up with a solution to the problem. I typically prefer direct communication so it will be to my benefit to address issues directly with the source instead of avoiding the person I am in conflict with. I have seen others here in open conflict with each other and I think it will be better for me to be more open about the conflict between Jody and me in the same way. I prefer to know where I stand with others so I will treat Jody the way I would want to be treated in this situation by dealing with her directly.

Sari,

How long is Denim going to be allowed to continue with this viciousness and hatred? Perhaps a ban is in order here. It is infecting the entire community.

Just because someone sees Jody as a scapegoat, it doesn't mean she is. It's just one person's perception. What is the difference between addressing someone face-to-face as opposed to discussing them as if it wasn't really about them? Come on! I have been discussed in RL by people and I sure as heck don't like it. I would't like it here either. Why can't people just work on their own issues? Why keep bringing up one person over and over (which she doesn't seem to want anyway) and beat it to death? By continually bringing it up, of course that person is going to behave as if she's a scapegoat. Then she gets called on the carpet for doing so. It's a no-win situation. Denim, why can't you just drop this? I for one am tired of it. We are all here to work on our stuff and you are too. I've brought issues up and tried to work on me this week. I see most posts are about this. It's not productive to any of us. If you have a problem with Jody, Denim, than just deal with it in your own head. Use Radical Acceptance. She ain't going away. She seems to want you to leave her alone. Why can't you do that? I am not taking sides. I'm just trying to get you to move on. Okay, it seems there's a consenus that you can now talk to Jody face-to-face. Is that what you want? I thought you didn't want direct contact with her. Make your mind up. It didn't seem to me you were working that hard to protect Jody's identity. It was pretty obvious who you were talking about. You're dragging this about and getting other people involved. Why not just give it a rest? I don't think it's the job of moderators to take sides either. But when one person is talking rudely about someone else, I would like them to step in. I find it hurtful to see one person disparage another. It's just not nice. Why do you want to keep going on with this? It's getting old already.

Trying to understand what one doesn't is a good thing, and just because one is the board owner doesn't mean one's attempts to understand should be taken as an attack. I don't think it's fair to Ash to criticise her for discussing topics she doesn't understand. Ash isn't our mother, and we shouldn't be making her into one.


On the general topic... one problem I see is that the "Rules of Engagement" keep being interpreted as "board rules". I've seen this over and over again in the past several months. Perhaps they need a name change. Or a clearer statement that the Rules of Engagement are not board rules, but guidelines for us to use in our discussions. Yes, I know the page does say have a statement about what they are for, but that doesn't seem to keep people from looking at it as, and expecting it to be, a hard and fast list of board rules, and thus being upset when they think someone has been allowed to break the rules.

I am closing this thread for a little while.

Since it was brought to my attention that it's being seen by some folks that I play favorites toward Denim (and I admit a soft spot there), I don't want to step in to try to mediate this one.

Since I don't know what Sari's schedule or any of the other SCLs schedules look like today, I'm locking this thread in the hopes that we can all take a step back, breathe in and out for a while, gain some perspective, maybe get some emotional distance and refocus our efforts on effective communication and, as IBF pointed out, listening without judgment.