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I’m one of those people who rarely come down from the rafters anymore. I’m still reading and learning, but for reasons I won’t go into, prefer to do so without posting.

But in the last few days I’ve had a big light bulb go on about judgments and I thought I’d share.

A lot of us have been through DBT and have learned ‘judgments are bad’. This ties in Ruiz’s statements that what someone thinks or says about you is their dream; it really has nothing to do with you. Judgments and people’s reactions here to the judgments are definitely increasing the drama. All of this has been percolating through the deep parts of my brain the last few days.

So I went looking for the DBT work on judgements. And what I found is that it’s not in the Interpersonal Relationships sections. It’s in the Mindfulness section. Being judgmental is discouraged in DBT because it hurts the person **making the judgment**; if another person is being judgmental or labeling you, it really is their perception, their dream of you—their stuff. If you are labeling or judging others, it hurts you.

Here’s a quote from the DBT self-help site:



And the whole lesson/article is here:

http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/non-jud ... tance.html

Anyway, in light of this I’d like to suggest that this opens up a whole new set of questions that one could yourself as you travel down the road of self-healing. As in mindfully noticing the label you have put on on a person and asking yourself “How does labeling person X as Q help me? How might it hurt how I see them? How well is it it working for me to label them and how well has it worked in the past?" And perhaps it is possible to not judge someone else's labeling, being judgemental, but to get them to look at the same questions so they can also work on themselves.

I remember when we did the judgemental exercises in DBT we all had little clickers and had to keep track of the number of times a day we labeled people/ made judgements. One woman, who like recent posters here, was dealing with road rage, had literally hundreds of judgments per day.

But the light still didn't go on for me until just now that this sort of behavior is harmful to ourselves, not the person we are labelling/judging.

Wow does this change my perception. Hope it's helpful to others here.

What a great post! I needed the reminder that judgements hurt the one judging. I hurt when I feel judged. I need to remember it's about the other person's dream. Thank you for posting this!

My copy of The Four Agreements is at home but I'm tempted to say that Ruiz's approach follows what you've laid out from DBT. That if I use my words against you (by judging you, even inside my own head) I'm harming myself because if I speak them, I cause you not to like me which harms me by removing your presence from my life and if I keep them in my head, it harms me because I allow that to guide my interactions with you, possibly driving you away or shutting off to things of value you might offer.

I still struggle with this concept.

Human beings are built and hard-wired back to the beginning of time to be judgmental in a split second. It's part of the fight-or-flight instinct that's kept us alive all these years.

So how does one reconcile harmful situations & individuals against the "do not judge" mandate? If someone continually calls me names, beats me up or otherwise abuses me, do I stick around for more because I'm not 'allowed' to judge them as toxic, harmful, mean, etc.?

If I don't judge someone as a threat to my end-goals (getting through check-out faster, getting home in one piece, getting my work done) and take appropriate action, don't my end goals suffer? Don't I make myself worse off by not judging, by sitting back and accepting whatever others are throwing at me, by putting my needs & goals second to avoiding judging?

If my judging is a reflection of my reality, in an ideal world, it would really impact the other person. If my reocognition of the impediment to my goals is helping me achieve those goals, I'm not sure I see how that's harmful to me.

Or is this a matter of "you can judge the situation, not the person"? So it's better to say "that person is moving really slowly" rather than "that slowpoke is moving really slowly"? That somehow the difference of person/slowpoke is somehow harmful to myself?

I try to stick with the "facts" and describe observable behaviors whenever possible but, even so, I see things with my own eyes so I have to do "reality testing" with others to make sure I am not seeing things in an unusual way. I typically go though a lot of "reality testing" before I accept my own observations as real enough to share them with others. I don't recall who brought up the observation, perhaps Candle, that many of us were trained by our environment to perceive things that others may not notice. I know that I tend to be "hyper-alert" so that I may be "wired" to pick up on things that others don't see and therefore my reality could differ from their reality.

I was amused by the observations one person made about me to another in a CC thread when I realized that this person was seeing my actions though her own filters. I recognized that people read my words in their own "voice" so their own intent is transferred onto me. The fact that she read my words as "baiting" another confused me at first, until I realized that she was processing my words through her own filter so that if she were the one who had written my posts, it may have been for the purpose of baiting another even though that was never my intent. Now I know to be careful around this person because she may be "baiting" me! LOL

I have to be careful of being overly self-judgmental because I always hold myself to a higher standard than I do other people. I can be non-judgmental about other people's behaviors but when it comes to my own I will have serious issues with the same behavior. For example, I have no problem with the fact that there are women who earn their living through the "oldest profession" of prostitution. What they choose to do with their bodies does not involve me and I have no opinion about them as a result of what they do to earn money. When I learned about my own prostitution, however, I had some very negative views about myself and my mental illness so that I struggled with some severe suicidal feelings as a result. For me, being able to talk to someone else about it and not be judged the way I was judging myself was beneficial because it helps me stay alive in order to work on the problem instead of being so freaked out that I see dying as the only way to solve the problem (my "logical" mind tries to convince me that if I am the problem, getting rid of myself would solve the problem).

When I hit "add reply" I only see the last reply so I don't have the advantage of scrolling up to see the original post in the thread or any of the ones that follow, except for the one right above mine. Hopefully my thoughts here are on track with the flow of the thread, even if I can't follow it while I am typing a reply.

First, I would like to define the word judgement.

I will just reiterate the definitions that apply. This comes from Merriam Webster Dictionary online:

1 a: a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion b: an opinion so pronounced
4 a: the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing b: an opinion or estimate so formed5 a: the capacity for judging : discernment b: the exercise of this capacity6: a proposition stating something believed or asserted

Now, that said, I think that judgments are good used in some ways, bad used in others. Labeling may help at some times and hurt in others.

If I never think certain thoughts and actions are wrong, then how am I supposed to know how to protect myself? If I go to a used car lot, and there is a salesman there who rips me off, I would never see it coming. I have to judge him based on his actions in order to protect myself. If I think he is untrustworthy because he has shown me a few signs that he is, then so be it, I have protected myself from harm. I think it's a necessary skill in life to be able to judge people correctly. If I didn't judge, I would never have an opinion. I don't believe there would be as many achievers, because no one would think anything was wrong with living in the park and cheating the system. That is where this comes in:



If I am trying to understand the world and how it works, I may need to hear judgments on others. It helps to gain understanding of what is common, to define the world so I can know what to expect. Once I have learned who the “idiot” drivers are and learned all the stereotypes, then the labels are no longer necessary, because I have judging skill. I don't have to define them, I can just see their actions, and know by trial-and-error whether they more-than-likely have good motives or bad, and whether they are a threat to me or not. Labeling them serves no purpose, it's just an unnecessary thought to do so. The more knowledge and experience I have manipulating my world, the less I need labels. Even with regular labels, such as goth – once it's defined and understood by me, then I don't have to think about it anymore, I can see these people and have some idea what they could be about, but I won't know that until I see how they act and what they think. The label serves to help me understand why they look the way they do, so I won't immediately view them as freakish or threatening. After I have some understanding, I can move on from there, and ignore the label. So I am using labels to create an understanding of where they fit in in the world, and then forgetting them and not using them, and allowing the people define themselves. But I am still making judgments. If I meet a goth, I will still judge to what extent I want them in my life and how, based on things we have in common or their moral structure. I am drawing opinions to decide the up and down side of having this person around me. These judgments help me to get the most out of life, and help me to run it more efficiently and successfully.

I think that what Ruiz is saying is pertinent, in that it can help you in this way:

He is right about my judgments being a part of my own dream. In my world, the people who are stupid are completely different from the people my mother defines as stupid, but we both receive validation from thinking so (although it's rare that I need to think so these days). This is my dream I have created and defined, it's my reality, but it may not be yours. Someone else's may be completely opposite. Neither is right nor wrong (unless it is breaking a law or causing someone else harm). I think people have similar dreams, and that makes them common, which is why a lot of people will agree that the little old lady is an idiot driver, because she is a below-average driver in a lot of people's worlds. In a good WOW player's dream, the people in the guilds below them are untalented losers. (But the up-side is that it drives people to achieve to think these thoughts). In my world, I may see just another video game player. It's very relative and based on perspective, which is why it's not necessary to label. Just figure out how to judge to keep yourself safe and to understand in the arena you have chose to play in, whether it be sky-diving or investing, then it's not necessary to label anymore.

I think Ruiz's words help us to keep another's thoughts from affecting us or bothering us. Why should it make a difference to me if X believes this about me? That's his dream. It helps us keep things in perspective. My dream may not include being the greatest WOW player, or the best money manager, or the greatest driver, and if someone wants to label me because their dream includes the fact that I must be an idiot in order to create their dream, so be it. If someone's ideas concerning me bother me, I can weigh based on who they are whether I want to believe them or not (and I need judging skill to do this). And I think it's a good way to make sure it doesn't affect our self-esteem. But once one becomes a good judger (which I am reaching for), I think one gets a bit more complicated than this. It's a good starting point.

So I do use judgment in some ways. I believe people achieve more and protect themselves through making certain judgments of where they and others stand in the world. But I don't want any unnecessary thoughts in my head, so once I have no use for labels or judgments, I dispose of them.

To use a label or a judgment in order to make oneself feel better is delving into actions that aren't healthy. For example, I have seen other people flex their muscles by showing, "I achieved this, now I am going to call you stupid because I can," regardless of whether what they achieved is truly important or not in the grand scheme of things, and regardless of what means they used in order to get there. And that is completely unhealthy, undesirable, and disgusting, in my eyes. See, if I hadn't made that judgment, I wouldn't know to try not to do this myself. That just made me better.

I am basically saying some of the same things Ash is.

Although I don't practice or currently study the Bible, I do find it contains a lot of wisdom I can learn from.I found this very helpful when I was trying to figure out what I thought about judging:

http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Judging.html

Especially these parts:

Pray for Good Judgement Ability
When Solomon received his kingdom he asked God to "Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?" (I Kings 3:9) James 1:5 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." We should pray for good judgment ability.
Don't Respect Persons
Proverbs 24:23 says, "These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment." Treat all parties fairly without favoring anyone, such as family members or friends. A truly fair judge is blind and deaf to any outer influence. (Isa. 42:1, 19-21)
Judge in Truth
Do not judge another when you do not have all the relevant facts. Jeremiah 5:1 says, "Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it." A true judge is one who seeks the truth. If you must judge, be sure and get all the facts. A Japanese proverb says to "search seven times before you judge."
Judge Mercifully
Remember the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:2: "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." You'll reap what you sow (Gal. 6:7-8). If you are swift and harsh in judging others, then God will see to it that you receive the same from others. Has God not been very merciful to you, even though you deserved it not? Likewise, you should exercise mercy toward others.
Don't Forget to Judge Yourself
I Corinthians 11:30-31: "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged." If you are a true Christian, then you belong to God. You are God's child. If you refuse to judge and improve yourself as a child of God, then God will take it upon Himself to judge you. Many of the troubles that we face in life are nothing more than God's way of judging us since we often neglect to judge ourselves.
Wouldn't it be amazing if every Christian actually took time to judge themselves before judging anyone else? In Matthew 7:4-5, Jesus says, " Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." A good judge will not fail to judge himself.

I also find that I do this quite often:


I read the site with no thoughts of who that person is, even if they have posted 5,000 times. I want to give them a fair chance, not based on some conclusion I have drawn from the past, and based only on their actions and thoughts today. It also helps me to see clearly without the information going through my filters, and sometimes I draw a different conclusion. There is definitely something to be said for this, although I doubt it would be a good idea to do on a used-car lot lol. It's good for some situations. And I think that where and when and how to make judgments, as I said, is a skill and is situational.

Also, concerning what Ruiz thinks about judgments being wrong because then we filter out the entire person instead of just the bad:

I think this ties in with black-hatting people, and seeing things in black-and-white. It's a way to black-hat and then dispose of all of that person, whereas, this person is not black, but grey. And on this site, I have to keep in mind that even if a person says things I disagree with a lot, if I read their writings with no filters or labels, I find that there are some things they write that are interesting and thoughtful. In the past, I have had to keep reminding myself not to black-hat and label them, and I have been able to do that. Now I can see some good there, and learn something from it, or at the very least, agree and see their gains. That's makes me feel a lot nicer than black-hatting them and thinking they are all negative. It leaves me in a better state of mind.

Yes, Aqua. I am learning that too. There may be things someone says that I don't agree with or like, but on the other hand, there are things they say that I DO agree with. So I can't paint that person all-black or all-white. I am trying to keep more of an open mind. The interesting thing though is that I can have whatever thoughts I have about a situation or a person, but it's how I react to that person or situation that really counts. I may think Person A is a real jerk in what she just said, but as long as I respect Person A and give her the benefit of the doubt and don't disrespect her, that's what matters. There are many people I don't agree with, but I have to keep my mouth shut and act respectfully around that person. Not invalidate her or run off at the mouth. On the other hand, it's okay to have a civilized conversation and have 2 opposing points of view. But it all depends on the circumstances and how I present myself. I'm trying to learn here how to moderate my feelings and decide how important it is to me to open my mouth and question/challenge people. Do I want to take on this issue? How important is it to me? I've had some interchanges that haven't gone on very well, so I'm trying to figure out what this is and where I go from there. Actually, I have more of an issue here doing that than I do in RL. But it's a learning experience for me.

I appreciate that you posted the given definition of 'judgment', AquaLite. I got confused sensing a gist that judgments are never useful and always harmful.

Yep, yep, yep. I see now what Ash was indicating, too.
This definition was also available when I looked yesterday:
• the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions
• an opinion or conclusion

I think we do need to make judgment calls, lots and lots of times for situations, and many times regarding other people and their motivations. I also think key to being able to rely on or utilize our judgments is to know when we have enough truth/facts to make an informed opinion ["sensible conclusions"] and especially when we don't.


This sounds very wise and objective, Aqua. I think I will try this more often, too!

~ jr

I think when DBT talks about being non-judgemental it means not making judgements of the good/bad, right/wrong, should/shouldn't variety. Instead, you're encouraged to describe things in neutral language in terms of facts and consequences.

"That person is moving really slowly, which means I'll have to wait for longer" is not a judgement. "What an asshole!" or "She should move quicker" are judgements.

I think it ties in a lot with some of the ten forms of twisted thinking - black and white thinking, labelling, and should statements.

I think there's a difference between judging someone (he's a jerk) as opposed to judging whether a situation is safe or not. Sometimes judging is good and is imperative to our safety. But judging someone on the basis of how they look or what they wear is totally different. I hope this makes sense, what I'm saying.

[once again, Spots, it's so great to see you when you pop up!]

I'm doing better, re: road rage, but that's another thread so I won't get into it.

A good thing I've found is this formula: "I would have preferred that ... [whatever - e.g., that person hadn't turned in front of me]". It takes the focus off of who the person is and puts it back onto how I'm feeling about an action that happened. Works for me.

I would have preferred s/he had used his turn signal because that gives me more warning so I can drive safely.

Since I can't control another person, i need to focus on controlling my reaction to them.

Of course, I still subscribe to the thought that if someone is abusive (which I realise is a subjective judgement), I reserve the right to judge them on that. But still, it's up to me how I'm gonna respond to that person - whatever their behavior.

I love that OH. I'm going to throw that into the tool box for me. "I would have preferred that..." It's so simple. I don't think I've ever thought of it that way.

Alas, Trinity, I can't claim credit for it, but I can't quite remember where I caged it from.

It is so powerful in its simplicity, isn't it! I'm glad you find it useful, it's been great for me, definitely.

"I really would rather that not have happened." because that naturally segues into: "but, it did, so what can I do now about it."

I think that's why I like it, because I can validate my feelings, e.g. frustration at a slow driver, but also not take my emotions so seriously at the same time, if that makes any sense? So I'm not telling myself, "well, it's no big deal, and I shouldn't feel so bad about XYZ" - because I obviously do feel bad. Telling ourselves we shouldn't do something is negative programing and it brings up a lot of shame feelings. Yuk. Thinking about what actions we CAN do about something lets us feel mastery and efficacy! It's very positive, I think.

"I would prefer that the drunken frat boys on spring break next door wouldn't slam their car doors at 3am." [at least they're hot, so that makes up for it a bit, even tho they're like 20 years younger than me. Ew, does that make me an old perv or what!] Framing it that way allows me to express my frustration but then get it "out of the way" so I can choose my response, e.g., ask them nicely please to be quiet (which is what worked), call the cops, complain to the house owner the next day, buy a white-noise machine, put in ear-plugs. See how it kinda frees me to get on with living instead of stewing in my own juices? Nice!

I'm still learning...

That sounds like a fantastic idea, Marni. I'm gonna try it.

I'm very late coming into this thread (I finally have some time to sit down and read thoroughly and process, not just skim through) and I'm finding it very interesting.



I had a discussion with somebody ages ago, about judgements and opinions and how I would automatically take others opinions and turn them into judgements against me. If somebody says "Amanda, I think you are a moron". Yes, it is their opinion, but isn't it also a judgement? Can an opinion and a judgement be one and the same thing? The definition would seem to agree with this.

When I say "They are judging me", it brings up bad feelings, but when I say "it's just their opinion" it doesn't. I'm not sure why substituting the word opinion for judgement has made it easier for me to not take things personally, but it has, and well I'm just putting it out there - food for thought.

Interesting that DBT says a judgement affects the person doing the judging. I know when I harshly judge myself, that I do harm to myself, but I hadn't thought about it when I judge somebody else. When I express strong opinions and make judgements about others and their behaviour, I guess I'm likely to be on the receiving end of a whole load of flack, especially if they don't agree with my judgement.

I guess it's one of the things I've struggled with at BPDR because my therapy has been completely the opposite of BPDR - "calling people out on their stuff" seemed foreign to me, because in effect I am calling them out on something that in my mind I see as wrong, not ok; and yes, it's judging (somebody else might see the same thing as totally ok), and there's a good chance that the ears that my opinions and judgements are falling upon are just not open to hearing it, and vice-versa. It took me a long time to be receptive to another calling me out on my stuff. What is "stuff" to them, may not be "stuff" to me; and this is where the 4 agreements comes in, about not taking things personally. It took me a long time to be able to find a balance between the 2 styles - unconditional positive regard and acceptance, and judging and being called out on stuff. It helps to tell myself that others "calling me out on stuff" is coming from a place of caring and wanting to help (rather than how I used to see it - as attacking me.)

The idea that judging another is actually hurting me, I think might make me stop and think twice before I point out what I see as a fault in another. How about you?

Can anyone explain the premise behind the thought:

Judging someone else is actually hurting me.

How and under what circumstances?

Just my take on things but when I find myself judging anothers behaviour, I'm usually reacting that way for 1 of 3 reasons:

1. I'm looking in a mirror - I'm reacting to a behaviour in them that I don't like in myself (or perhaps haven't yet recognised in myself.) In this case, my judgement is actually a reflection of me, so I'm actually judging myself. Judging myself is harmful to me.

2. I'm seeing behaviour in them that I may myself once have engaged in but no longer do so. In this case, if I am judging them, then perhaps it is because I have not yet forgiven myself for once acting in the same manner (and therefore cannot accept another acting in such a manner.) It is hurtful to me to hold onto things, to not accept myself and my flaws and to not forgive myself.

3. I'm seeing behaviour similar to that which was displayed by people in my past. In this case, I am reacting towards a person in the present because I haven't let go off my hurt feelings from the way I was treated in the past. It is hurtful for me to old onto old feelings and to not forgive others.

Does this make any sense?

Example: I judge the person going slow in front of me as an idiot or a moron or a turd. I get angry at them, frustrated. Well, I'm hurting myself by feeling negative, unhealthy emotions. Stress is toxic if taken in large doses, or chronically.

Example: I judge someone harshly and, as it turns out, erroneously. I lose the chance to have positive interactions with this person. That "hurts" me.

Example: I judge someone as being a Bitch. Regardless of whether it's true, I have become one myself by being mean-spirited. That's a little more abstract idea of hurting one's self, but I think it holds. I'm not religious, but I believe in what I call Jesus-principles and I try to live my life with compassion and understanding. When I don't, I fail to honor my own values and therefore am hurting myself.

That's what I see the statement meaning, plus other things that I can't quite articulate at 12:28am...

It seems to me that having a judgemental attitude tears me down. It makes me something less than what I could otherwise be. It's black and white thinking, rather than seeing the greys.

And I do see it as not so much about the individual judgements, but the judgemental attitude behind them.

It's hard to put it in words. But I know from experience that than kind of thinking isn't good for me.

I can still make judgements about situations and have appropriate boundaries without having that judgmental attitude.

I wonder if there's a difference between judgment in the sense of assessing something, and judgment in the sense of condemning something.

If I say, "She seems to be having a difficult time with her boyfriend leaving," I have made a judgment, an assessment, of how I experience this woman based on what I see.

If I say, "That driver cut me off! He is such an idiot!" I have made a judgment, a condemnation, based on how I reacted to what I experienced.

I think that judgment/assessment is normal and usually healthy. I think that judgment/condemntation is harmful to us.

jim

Yes, this is the point I was making earlier, that judgment is needed to assess, but not to condemn. That's exactly it, I think.

Thanks for answering guys... you all had good points that are understood.

I don't think I use judgment to condemn but I definitely use past responses to determine the probability of future responses so in that sense I suppose I am being judgmental in a necessary way. For example, BG had asked me questions in PM that I thought I answered in a straight-forward manner and yet she kept asking the same questions repeatedly. I tried answering them in a clearer way but apparently that was not adequate either. It was when I read a CC with Sarah that I realized what it was about my answers that were not answering her questions because it turned out that she wasn't asking me the questions that would have given her the answers she was looking for. I think it was a frustrating experience for us both and as a result, I was hesitant about answering any more questions from BG in another thread (thankfully others answered the questions before I got back to the thread). Her asking questions was not a problem for me and she did not seem to have a problem with my answers but there was still a communication problem between us that has left me wanting to avoid going through another round of that again. It is not that I am judging BG in any way because I don't have a problem with BG personally, I just think that if she approached me with a bunch of questions again, I would need to ask her additional questions to find out what it was that she is really asking so I don't keep going in circles with her again. I suppose in a way this could be seen as "hurting" myself because I am a bit apprehensive about answering questions from BG, but at the same time I think it will help our communication in the future because we won't be as likely to go around in circles again.

P.S. I have used the exact names of the people involved in this example because I don't believe I have said anything that would be seen as hurtful by either of them. I have learned from past experience that using "another member" ends in a bigger mess so I have opted to be more direct (and not passive-aggressive or any other labels that were stuck to my communication style) and state my observations about conversations that are already public. If I have said something wrong, I would appreciate feedback but please do not clutter this thread with suggestions or advice for me - take it to CC or PM instead.

I do this too. I definitely do this. For instance, I gave the example of visiting a used car lot. It just gives me the willies to think about it, because in the past, I have had really bad experiences with salespeople. I believe that I overdo it now. I believe that once I stepped in a pile of crap and didn't know what to do about it, then I was so leary that, in the past, I refused to revisit that scenario. And then if I saw someone using the techniques to try and coax or convince me, it would just anger me to no end. I just shut down completely and then forever-after viewed that person as untrustworthy. I just don't think that is necessary now. I believe I can choose what that person might say that is valid, and I have the tools to use to protect myself. I won't assume the person is good, but I won't assume everything they say is bad either. I can see what they do that I view as untrustworthy, and I can protect myself from those things without fearing them. It's still not someone I would choose to be my friend, but it doesn't mean I have to be afraid of going there (not that I would have a reason to anyways, I probably wouldn't buy a used car anyways, and if I did, there would be better options). But I do view a lot of people this way, as mostly morally corrupt and people I just shut out and fear (because someone similar in some way has proven themselves to me to be untrustworthy by their actions, and therefore, whoever is there is guilty by association and their moral character is assumed), when it's simply not true for everyone. And I need to give people the chance, for me and for them.

I think you are referring to the same person - as in, you determine what they will probably do based on their actions from the past. I think I do this some too, and I do think it's necessary, depending on the situation. But I think I am depending on this a little bit less now that I have the tools. After all, they can't get to me, so why does it matter what they might do? I don't need to live with that kind of fear anymore.

I can understand why some people would "fear" someone they had past experiences with that didn't turn out well. But it's also not good to ASSUME that the same thing will happen over and over. My H does that to me. I find it very invalidating. He says because I did such-and-such one way, I'll probably do it again that way. Then I get angry and hurt. But I can understand where he's coming from. So you have to walk a very fine line here, in my opinion.

I don't know that there is a level of "fear" involved as opposed to wanting to avoid making past mistakes over again. It is essential that we learn from our mistakes and learn to handle situations with people more effectively as a result.