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I just had a very opposite reaction to what should have been a really great thing, and am wondering if that is part of the 'disorder' so to speak.

I would seem that my brain does NOT allow pleasure. Of any kind. If I am having fun, it must be wrong or bad, and brain puts a stop to it immediately. No question.

So this weekend I went to a concert. My FAVOURITE band of all time. Should have been a good night, right?

Wrong. Half way through the show I started viewing everything in my 'third person/over the shoulder' vision, and it all went to shit. And I am still suffering the after effects a few days later.

The emptiness is even bigger than it was a few days ago. A burning hole in my centre.

And I really, honestly TRIED so hard to have a wonderful time. It was ALL I wanted. And even that was out of my grasp. *sigh*

So I guess my question is, is this? Is this borderline type thinking crap, or is there more going on with me? Does anyone else have this happen?

And if you do, what kinds of things are helpful in getting your brain heading in a different/better direction, and how do you stop having the 'evil' part from taking over when you are trying to have fun?

Thanks.

xoxo

It sounds like you're dissociating. Maybe you're putting too much stress on yourself to have fun? What happens right before you go into that "third person" view?

Yeah, that sounds like borderline thinking (self-sabotage) to me.

It might be helpful for you to really examine the thoughts that were coming into your head as that third person over the shoulder thing was going on. Were you telling yourself that you didn't deserve to have fun, that you never have anything really good in your life, that you were only invited along out of pity, etc.? Whatever it was that was the driving force, the common theme behind the negativity will be the answer for you in dealing with this type of stuff the next time.

What you describe is what I call the negative self-talk tapes that play over and over inside our heads. We had those messages recorded ages & ages ago and we've listened to them all along. If we want real and lasting change in our lives, we have to erase those tapes and record something much more positive and healthy.

My tapes usually revolve around self-worth. That I don't deserve to have fun. So my combat strategy is to deliberately argue against that premise. Tell myself positive things, tell myself to get out of the past & just enjoy the present while it's here.

It sounds like you went through a dissociation while you were at the show. That really CAN be disturbing!

One of the things I do when I start to "disconnect" is to stimulate my senses. That can link me back to my body and keep me from "going anywhere". Taste and touch work pretty well for me. I like to carry a tin of ginger or licorice or cinnamon candies. A little pleasant shock to my system that I can concentrate on to bring myself back to grounded.

Dissociation/disconnection like that is mostly a stress reaction for me, and even GOOD stress can be stress...Crowds of people, loud noises, little burst of adrenaline...

omg, thanks so much guys.

i have a feeling I spend a good deal of my days dissociating. To a point that things are really getting messed up.

So I remember my bf saying something to me just before. About how I should be paying more attention maybe? Instead of saying what a good time I was having?

That almost makes sense. I pissed him off by being me, therefore I no longer get to have fun since I so very obviously ruined his good time.

I remember having a similar experience years ago when I went to go buy some new sweat pants to work out in. As soon as got them, I felt all this self loathing. In hindsight, I believe that that feeling came from a deep seeded sense of shame that would often show itself when I was doing something good for myself. It was my borderline, subconscious script that was telling me, "I can't do good things for myself because I'm a bad person."

Similar experiences have happened to me over the years, but I've learned how to deal with them, so they happen less and less, and not to such a painful degree. The solution is cognitive, at least for me; I take some deep breaths, and tell myself, "It's unnecessary for me to feel this way, and it's ok for me to enjoy myself/do nice things for myself."

Good luck, and if what I applies to me applies to you, remeber: there is absolutely no reason to feel unnecessary pain, and you can self talk your way into feeling better

Thanks so much,

I think the really hard part for me is this. I am unaware that it is happening, until i am looking over my own shoulder. So taking steps to stop it would be impossible at this point. I need an early warning device!

I wish there was a way to get a good T to talk to, but A) being in a small shitty town leaves me a little lost in the mental department., and B) well, back to A...LOL. And of course C) my job depends on me being a good sane little monkey. bah.

Next step, to look for very early warning signs I guess.

I respectfully disagree - strongly. When you feel like you're looking over your shoulder, it's not too late. There's no reason that you have to endure that kind of misery at all, and that is the perfect time to take a time out, breath deeply, and tell yourself that things are alright.

A therapist helps greatly, but any good therapist will tell you that you have to do 90% of the work, and that means recognizing the "battle grounds", and take the needed actions in the real world. Sadly, for us who suffer from BPD, the battle ground is just being alive and dealing with life.

That wasn't meant to be a lecture, but it is true, and I know this from years of experience in trying to get better: any moment that you have your eyes open is a chance to make things better, and that's why I respect people who fight back against their own suffering, because it's a long, hard road, baby.

Anyway, keeptrying says that you're not allowed to have a miserable, disassociated time at the next concert that you attend.

I find this fascinating because for years I refused to believe that I was dissociating because this is the "textbook" description for dissociation. Do you actually see the back of your head when you are looking over your shoulder? I am always looking from my own eyes rather than from behind my head, except that things seem so much further away somehow (it is close to the effect they use in movies when the camera pulls back). The feeling of distance makes me feel more "removed" from what is happening and yet I know that I am still in my body because I do not see the back of my head nor is my view from one side as if I am looking over my shoulder. It is more like I am looking straight on through my own head without seeing my head in front of me. There are other descriptions of dissociation as seeing things from a corner of the room or being on the ceiling. To me this is a clear indication that a person is having an "out of body" or even a "near death" experience and yet it is labeled as dissociation. When I have memories that involve these sort of viewpoints, I am assuming they were out of body experiences and not dissociation. That is why I have been so convinced that my issues are spiritual and not psychological. I think it is my difficulty with the definition for dissociation that keeps me logically refusing to accept that I dissociate when I have been diagnosed with a dissociative disorder.

I dissociate the way you seem to, Denim. The way I describe it is as though I'm watching everything on a movie screen from a distance. Scares the heck out of me when it happens. I think it may be different for different people.

When I dissociate, I feel like I am not "in" my body. That I am totally disconnected from my body and myself. I can't feel myself. I usually pinch myself to bring myself down. It's almost like being on a really bad drug trip. It's scary as hell.

FNL, my only advice is to keep working the Five Steps, even after the fact. The more you work with them, the more trained your brain becomes at coming up with alternate courses of action. Right now, the default is "dissociate, self-loathe" and you'll keep going into that mode. The more practice you have at seeing other ways of handling situations, the more situations you apply the steps to (even after the fact, with what you might have done differently) the larger your Learning Library. So the next time the boyfriend says something "pay attention" your brain will go to the "pay attention" folder to see what the options are instead of just defaulting to sulk-mode.

So ... what might you have done or said differently when he suggested you pay more attention? Of the three possible courses of action, you already did one of them: sulk & self-loathe. What two other options did you have available to yourself at that time?

You know, I never realized I had been dissociating. Mainly because I still saw out of my eyes, but it's weird because if I go back and remember the times I dissociated I'll be in third person standing in the corner watching the memory. I have so many memories where I'm not in first person =/

I don't have many memories in the "third person" (fortunately there are blanks when I am not paying attention) but the ones I have are more like dreams and do not seem real at all. I thought it was different spirits taking over my body while I was "gone" but I am not so sure anymore. Maybe I thought I could leave my body when I was really there all along and that is why I have these weird "out of body" memories. Most of it has to do with the Satanic stuff, though, so I thought I was channeling at the time things happened. I don't think I killed the baby but I may have been there and if I was there and the body was mine then the baby died because of me even though I wanted to take him away but he was better off dead because they beat him so badly that no baby should have to live with that pain. The people went to prison not me but maybe it should have been me if I did kill the baby like I was told. The baby was Jeffrey and I hurt him when they told me to so they did not hurt me and I am in hell for what I did but Jeffrey is with Jesus. I don't want to think about it. I usually stay away from threads that say things like "UGH" instead of a topic so now I need to stay away so I don't see these words and wonder where they came from. I need to get out of here so I don't lose it again thinking too much.

Denim, I hope you feel better. It's hard to be in a place like that - I hope you're doing something to make you feel safe! I recently read something (I don't remember where) and it triggered something in me too, to do with babies, and I had to get out. We have to protect ourselves.

Sorry, went off into my own little world for a bit there.

Anyway, yeah Denim, it's kind of like that, like a movie. The only reason I call it 'over the shoulder' is due to the way I 'sense' myself. I dunno. It's weird.

I actually was able to stop a MAJOR rage on the weekend, just by a lot of VERY hard work. And I must say, both myself, and A were very impressed with me. But that is just one mini battle. But at least it's one I managed to somehow win.

Such a strange thing, when you realize what you do. Everyday is a new adventure for me these days...LOL