BPDRecovery.com: Forums

Yesterday I went to see my T for an "emergency" appointment. I was very depressed and upset about some things, and even had suicidal thoughts. I felt terrible! So I'm on the way to see him, and I get a phone call from someone. It had to do with an organization I'm involved in and someone needed help. So I answered the call, gave the person the help they needed, and went on my way to my therapy appt.

So I thought - "what if I killed myself? How would that person have gotten the help they needed?" I feel like I'm in two different worlds - the "normal" world where I help people and give advice, and the "Bordergirl" world where I'm depressed and miserable and hate myself and want to kill myself. How do I reconcile those two worlds?

So after I told my T how bad I was feeling, at the end of the session I said to him, "so what do I do now? How do I get through this until I see you again?" He said I should do what I've always done for the past 40 years - "just get through each day like you've always done." So I went home and just "did it."

Then today I got "crazy" again. I lost my cell phone. I went back to all the places I was all day and still couldn't find it. And my mother's voice was in it - I saved one of her messages. Now I don't have her voice anymore. So I came home all depressed and thinking suicide again. I told my H I was going to sell all my possessions and then kill myself. That I was a huge financial drain on him. He talked to me and tried to make me feel better.

But see, lately I've been doing this more and more. I get nutsier and nutsier. I have more "emergency" appointments with my T because I can't handle the things that come my way. I do the DBT lessons. I told my T I did 3 of them but still couldn't figure out my feelings. He said I'm not in a place yet where I can figure out my feelings - that I need to go over the lessons I did with him and he would help me.

He said I will always have suicidal thoughts. That when things get rough for me, that's where my head will go, like an alcoholic would immediately crave a drink. So I have to accept that. But I'll tell you, this is wearing me out. Between the sleep issues and the emotional issues and being constantly up-and-down - it's crazy! I'm working on the sleep issues, so maybe that will settle down soon. And I do everything else i should be doing - DBT exercises, seeing my T, talking about things. I don't know.

Do any of you feel that way? Like you are in your regular world, but when you get "crazy" you're in another place? And you go between both places? How long can people do this? How do you deal with it?

I wonder if more balance out in the outside world, the interactive people world, would help. In your "normal" world, as you call it, all you talk about is giving to others. Giving is a good thing. But there should be balance between getting and giving.

I guess I'm inclined to see the "normal" world you describe as the outside, interactive world, and the "Bordergirl" world as the inside, emotional world. And my thought is that more balance between giving and getting in the outside world, more reciprocality, will help with finding balance and peace in the inside world.

Thanks Ellen. How would I go about doing that? I mean, I'm not a martyr. I help people, but not overly so. It's not like that's all I do. I do "get" from others, believe me. There is a balance there. It's just that my emotional world is absolutely crazy, and then I go out into the "real" world and act like everything is okay. Then when things get to be too much, I totally retreat and don't do anything. But I dont' want to retreat. I want to be able to do what I do and not give in to depression. The way I'm feeling right now, so emotional, is that I don't know if I CAN handle things on the outside. It's getting to be too much for me.

I wrote to someone that it's not the "big" things I can't handle. Like when my son was sick or my mother was sick and dying, I was okay. I could deal with it. I went every day to the hospital - I never "lost it." But now, with little things, I'm losing it. It's the every-day little things I can't seem to handle. And it seems to be getting worse. I dont' know why.

Is it possible the ECT treatment is wearing off and you need to do it again? Just a thought......

Oh C2L, I thought of that yesterday. It scared the pants out of me! I thought "what if I need ECT again?" I don't know at what point I would make that decision, or if it would be made for me by my doctors. Yes, that definitely has been in my mind since yesterday.

I keep thinking now that I won't kill myself, but instead that I SHOULD be dead. Like I wouldn't do it, but that I should be not here. That I shouldn't exist in the first place.

I'll have to talk to my T about it. Thanks!

I think that perhaps the only "effective" part of being hospitalized in the past was that it kicked in my "survival mechanism" so that I could "pull myself together" enough to be convincing enough to be released. I recall reading something in my case notes that went along with comments I had heard to the effect that I seem to be able to make a favorable enough impression on the judges that the psychiatrists would often feel like l would be able to get a release against their recommendations and would sometimes release me just so my case would not go to court if it might tarnish their reputation in any way. I also recall one judge telling me that I am "intelligent" and "articulate" but then he kept me locked up anyway by siding with the psychiatrist at the state hospital so it doesn't always work in my favor (my therapist finally got me released because I was doing worse the longer I was locked up).

I definitely have the ability to "hold myself together" under extreme stress and yet I can "lose it" for no apparent reason. It is the movement in my head that seems to make the difference as far as how well I can pull off a "normal" facade. I am working on gaining better control over whatever is doing that so I can hopefully make it work to my advantage. So many people are amazed that I am as high functioning as I am based on my past so I must manage the whole "normal" thing pretty well most of the time, even though I am really pretty "mental" inside.

I remember as a kid thinking I would never live to be 18. Then as a young adult I did not think I would live to be 21. Then in my twenties I thought I would never live to be 30. The night before I turned 34 I was driving through Colorado after some forest fires and the full moon was blood red (from the smoke apparently) but I thought that was a "sign" that I was not going to live past midnight because 33 was definitely as old as I was going to get. Now I am 38 and it has occurred to me that I could live to be 40 or even 50!

I seem to have this "passive" death wish now that I have made an agreement with God to let Him determine when I will die but at least I am not suicidal anymore and that will keep me from being locked up or forced to take medication. I am still not afraid to die and I still welcome death (I got over my fear of death during childhood when I first became suicidal) and yet I also don't have the feeling that I would prefer to die than to live. I think that since there must be something I must learn or accomplish before I die, I better get busy and get it done so I will be free to die and that keeps me distracted from thinking about ways to kill myself. It is hard to give up suicidal thoughts when they have been with us for a long time but we can focus our efforts on living instead of dying.

I am guessing that you will always have issues with depression and you will always have suicidal thoughts but there are ways to live with those things and not let them bother you too much. If ECT is something that worked in the past it is possible you will choose to do that again but then that is probably "worst case scenerio" so anything else to help you get through the hard times will be even better. It may be that a simple adjustment in your medications will make a huge improvement. The thing is to look into your options so you can make the best choice.

I went back and read the "two different worlds" thing again and this "vision" I had during my last involuntary hospitalization came to mind (although it is possible it was a dream, I am sure it was not real). In this vision I actually saw myself as two separate people, one "normal" person and one "mental" person but they were both in the same body so that it was like a Jekyll and Hyde thing. It was a very strange vision and I have not figured out what it meant exactly, except that there were these definite "switches" between the two and since I had that vision I have been told that I "switch" into "alternate personalities" at times. I don't think I do the whole "Sybil" thing so that possibility scares me. What was strange about the vision is that I was seeing it from outside myself so that I guess in that sense it could have been a sort of "Three Faces of Eve" thing but I did not see it that way at the time I was seeing the vision (I did not even know about Eve before I had the vision). It followed a drug overdose so it was probably just some sort of hallucination and yet it is apparently not something I have been able to shake from my memory. Is this what you mean by "different worlds" or do you actually mean different places you go when you are not present?

How to go about having more balance? Well, that's the hard part of the question.

As far as what you can do interactively, it really is hard to answer because so much depends on the situation, the social environments you are in, or that are available to you to become part of.

But I think there's also a factor of attitude. About how one sees what's there. And what one believes is possible. But even there, there's nothing I can give as a "do this and it will work". And, I'm thinking, it's a shifting perspective thing. It's not just about seeing an idea I or someone else might suggest to you logically, analyzing it, and following it. It's something shifting inside so you see the world different. And there's no formula for getting there. Even if I somehow know how someone else needs to shift their perspective, that doesn't mean I know what to say that will hit them just right so that they are able to shift their perspective.

I'm not sure if I'm being helpful or not. But it's what I have to offer.

I can relate to feeling like I'm in 2 different worlds because most people in my RL don't know anything about my diagnosis or my therapy. Even those who do, don't really believe it.

For sure no one in my RL would understand the way I was attached to my T, or my poem. They just wouldn't get it. In a way, that's like another world. The borderline world. A crazy world, but one I understand and still feel comfortable in. Again, I'm going to refer to the book "I Never Promised You a Rose Garden." When the main character gave up her schizophrenic world, the real world appeared flat and boring. She knew she had to go there, but the fantasy world was where she felt she belonged.

I don't have an answer for you, but I think the goal of therapy is to bring the two worlds closer together, the real world being the healthier place to be. I'm not saying you consciously choose to be in the borderline world, but it's a comfortable place to be because you are allowed to be freer and out-of-control, and you are used to it. Thoughts of suicide are okay in that world. The other world has more rules, and you have to be more normal. The goal, as I see it, is to become more normal without losing your sense of self and your own individuality. To be able to "be borderline" within reason in the real world so it doesn't seem like a different world. Maybe I'm talking about radical acceptance here.

What does your T say about your feeling more like you're in the other world, and not able to cope? I think sleep deprivation is a big part of your feeling more depressed. Does he think so?

As far as getting upset over the little things, that's common, I've often been told. When I lose my keys, misplace a paper, forget to buy something at the grocery store, I can get very depressed and angry. More so than over big things. I think that's human nature. The little things just get to us. We have to try to remember that whatever happens, happens for a reason, and is meant to be.

Losing your cell phone with your mother's voice is not a little thing, though. Are you sure you have no old cassette recordings or videotapes with her voice? You know, I don't have my mother's voice either. I have my father's voice because we have videocassettes with sound, but the old family movies are soundless, of course. I just have to remember her voice in my mind. We always have our memories and photos. Do you have her writing? Letters from her?

I know I've been rambling, but thought I'd give my 2 cents about the concept of 2 different worlds.

Wondering, I don't have any other recordings of my mother's voice. I wish I had. I can sort of remember her voice in my mind, but I'm afraid I'll lose that one day. I'm hoping my Verizon guy can get it back for me. I even had a dream that I found my cell phone tonight! But of course I woke up and I didn't find it.

I have not gone into deep discussion with my T about two different worlds. I thought of it after I saw him on Friday. I need to talk to him about it on Tuesday when I see him. I did tell him though that I thought of myself as being two separate people, and I think he said that was normal to think that but I wasn't REALLY two separate people. Just that we all have different aspects of ourselves.

I am very active in the Real World and have a lot of activities going on. Some of my friends know I have "issues" because they know I went in the hospital last year. They don't know I had ECT (well, actually, 2 do). But most don't know I have ECT. On the 2 occasions when I told 2 people I had BPD, they didn't believe me. They weren't close friends and I was embarrassed afterwards. I will never tell anyone again that I have BPD. So anyway, I don't discuss my "mental" issues with my friends. I am friends with some of the women from my old BPD Group and those are the friends I discuss it with. But not my other friends.

Anyway, I do have stuff going on in RL so it's not like I'm sitting home all the time. But it's so hard to go back and forth, believe me. When I get into a BPD mood, I don't want to do anything else in RL. So I either stay home and don't do anything (which is rare), or I go out and pretend everything is okay. That's why my T said I'm high-functioning BPD.

Denim, I understand what you're talking about. I have always been scared of death, since I was a little girl. I didnt' think of suicide until I was much older. I stopped thinking of it and have begun thinking of it more recently. I am sort of scared of it, but find myself thinking what it would be like to be dead and if I could actually go through with doing myself in. I mean, it's so permanent! But lately I find myself in so much emotional pain that it's all I can think of doing. I can't sort out my feelings. I did DBT exercises but they didn't unlock anything - I have to bring in my sheets to go over with my T to figure out what I'm feeling. I think you're right that I'll always think about suicide but have to figure out other ways to cope. My T has not said anything about ECT and I'm scared to bring it up.

I am going through a difficult time now thinking I don't deserve anything good and am a bad person. I want to punish myself.

Denim, I don't think of myself as actually two separate people. I just see myself as maybe having two parts of myself - the "normal" part and the "crazy" part. I feel that people don't see the Real Me. Only my H does, because he's the one who's subject to my craziness on a day-to-day basis. I would never allow anyone else to see me that way. I tell my T about it and he understands. I dont' rage at my T, but he sees me become stubborn and not rational at times. So I guess my H and my T are the only two people who really see that. Of course I suppose other people do get the brunt of it - like when I get mad at the people in my T's office for doing stupid things or not getting my appts. straight. Or my dentist's receptionist. So I guess maybe other people DO see me as the crazy person sometimes. But I don't allow my friends to see me that way. So I think that it's not ME that's actually two people - it's more that I have different parts to my personality. I function in two different ways so to speak. And it's getting harder and harder to go back-and-forth between the two lately.

I don't know if going in the hospital would help me or not, except to get ECT of course. I'm not really a danger to myself. I'm not so depressed that I can't function. I'm just nuts right now. When I was in the hospital last time I fought with the nurses because they didn't start my ECT right away and I didn't see the doctors right away. I think if I went in now, I would just be there and not make waves and just hang out. It's rather boring, in my opinion. I don't remember learning anything, like in the groups I went to, because after ECT my memory of everything that happened there is a vague memory. So whatever I did there is like in a dream to me.

I had another BPD episode yesterday. I have them more and more now, almost every day. I get absolutely crazy. My H is getting frustrated with me.

Ellen, thanks for your response. I think that I do have balance in my life. As I said, I go out in the Real World and do things and am successful with them. I have friends. I just can't seem to get a handle on my feelings. I think I just need to keep talking to my T and working through this. Writing here helps me to, to get my thoughts out. I think there's a piece missing and I have to figure out what it is. Why I'm acting this way.

Well, I need to get back to bed. Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!!!!

Well, I gotta say - life is great! Not only did I lose my cell phone the other day with my mother's voice in it, but I just lost all my photos on my computer. I had photos of my mother, my trips to Ireland, Isral and California, plus lots of photos of family and old friends. What more can happen to me now? Wait, I better not say that.

BG,

Hang on! You know things can appear to be "lost" on the computer, but they show up somewhere eventually.
You know you didn't delete them....could you have possibly moved them to another folder?

Also, have you considered any kind of "hormonal havoc" in play contributing to the increased incidence of bpd episodes?

cosmo

Maybe I don't understand what you mean when you say that you have your mother's voice on your cell phone but it would seem to me that if she had left you a message, you would still be able to access that through the voice mail on the account associated with the cell phone and that it's not really lost.

I got my new phone and my messages are there. Apparently when I called on Saturday, the person I spoke to thought I meant "text messages." That's what would be lost. My voice messages are there.

I know I overgeneralized Ash. I have been feeling really down lately and this is what sometimes happens. I have to stop saying these things to myself.

I got the new phone and I almost started to cry in the store. I am just so over-emotional!

I don't know about hormones. I went through menopause years ago, and had a hysterectomy too. I dont' take replacement hormones. My twin sister had estrogen-based breast cancer and I refuse to take them. I don't know how to get hormone levels checked - who does that? I guess I can talk to my T about it and he can arrange for it in the office. Maybe the PA can do it.

Thanks for the advice. I am such a mess - I can't keep my head on straight! I am so emotional right now.

Thanks.

Times like these do come and go, don't they?

What ways do you tend to behave when you get so emotional? Do you frequently overgeneralize? What other things do you notice?

Is there a way you can use these behaviors to recognize that your emotions are shaken up? For me, for example, when I find myself irritable when I drive, or ruminating about past hurts, it's a sign that something's shaken me up that I'm not in touch with.

If so, is there a way you can put together some plans, even thin ones, that will help you when you recognize that your emotions are strong?

jim

BG,

So glad you got your mother's message back, and I can certainly understand your tears.

Cosmo

Thanks Cosmo!

Jim, I am trying so hard to find a pattern here. To figure out what's causing this. I just don't know. I wrote out some DBT sheets and am going to go over them with my T tomorrow.

I do find I have been over-generalizing. I'm feeling sort of fatalistic - that when things happen that I feel I can't handle, I want to end it all. Of course I AM handling them, so it's sort of ridiculous what I'm thinking.

Okay, last week I had the episode at the dentist's office. It's regarding surgery and I'm upset about that. Then I lost my cell phone. Then I had a tiff with my H. So instead of taking it all in stride, I get over-emotional, say I want to die, blah blah blah. I am exhausted and wonder if I'm depressed again. I have been crying and feeling sorry for myself.

All I can do is just muddle through every day. Do the best I can. That's what I've always done. And maybe wait for it to go away. I'm scared now because this is crazy and I don't want to have to go back to the hospital. I don't know how serious it is, if it is at all. Any little thing can set me off lately.

When I get like this I just want to be left alone. Go into my bedroom and lay down. Not talk to my H for awhile, or anyone else.

I am trying to understand it but I can't put a finger on my feelings. That's what I need my T for. He said he's going to help me. I'm a bit too overwhelmed to do it on my own.

Sometimes I think I'm making this all up, but I know I'm not. It's so weird. Does anyone else ever wonder if they're "making it up?"

I'm so glad that you didn't lose your Mom's voice on your cell phone. I know how much it means to you.

When something goes wrong, even it it's little, I overreact too. I got upset over something at work today, then became anxious about one of my kids, and then something else upset me, and already I'm getting depressed, and thinking that life is too overwhelming. The little stresses add up and it seems like everything is too difficult. Then I think "why bother?" So here I am on the board because it's too much effort to do anything else I need to be doing.

When I act "crazy" and out-of-control, I feel ashamed but I know it's real. It's another part of me. I've gotten very angry and slammed doors and thrown things in my house (not breaking anything though), acting just like a 2-year old!

You've said before that you don't always think you're real, that you have to pinch yourself. Is that different from not thinking your emotions are real? What exactly do you think you are making up? I sort of understand, but not completely, what you mean. Do you mean: which is the real you, the BG who functions well in RL, or the one who is suicidal and "crazy"? I would say both are the real you, and you aren't making up that you can function well in RL, but when you are alone, or sometimes with your H, you don't function as well.

Do you think maybe your expectations are too high? You are on disability, but you lead a pretty active life, with all of your volunteering, home decorating projects, and so on. It seems like you have to keep busy every minute. Are you running away from something? Your self, maybe? Maybe you have an unrealistic picture of what you have to be doing in your life. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just trying to imagine where your anxieties and over reactions may be coming from.

Take it easy. You have an excellent T. I'm sure he will be able to help you sort it all out. He did say you're "allergic to stress." Maybe you have to use radical acceptance and tell yourself your reactions are normal for you, and try to take them in stride.

I feel this way at times. Lately it's gotten worse and I find myself reaching out to the Crisis Line. I'm not sure how the two worlds can combine. I've also been told that I will probably have the suicidal thoughts for the rest of my life and that in times of great stress, they will come out. My psycholigists keeps telling me it's all about how I deal with the thoughts.

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time, just keep reaching out!

Thanks Wondering and Peaceforlife. Well, to address some of this.

I saw my T today. Basically he said that this is what happens - something happens to me, like I lost my cell phone. So I got angry. It's normal to get angry when something like that happens. It happens to us all and many of us get angry. But then I go beyond anger. I attach ANOTHER emotion onto the first emotion. I get upset with myself for being angry. I feel that if I'm not "perfect" I'm no good, that I don't deserve to live. Add on top of that my H saying things that make me feel bad, especially to do with the lost money, etc. So it all piles on top of each other and I feel hopeless and berate myself and hate myself. I go into a downward spiral.

My T wants me to watch what happens when I get the "first" emotion. See if I attach something onto that one. He also wants me H to come in because he believes my H adds fuel to the fire.

So the issue isn't so much that I'm suicidal - it's that I attach these emotions and statements about myself to the first one.

As far as volunteering and doing my house, that doesn't take up so much time. A lot of what I do is on the computer. Actually, the work in the house has been done by other people - I'm not actively involved. We are re-doing a lot of things for eventual re-sale value and these things need to be done. So it's not like I'm doing this stuff to fill up my time. I don't need to keep busy every minute. I spend a lot of time sitting on my computer and reading or watching TV (lol). I do like to feel productive, but not to the point of being in a frenzy. I have to be careful or else I do end up in a lot of pain if I do too much physical activity.

ME feeling real physically is different to me than thinking I'm in two different worlds emotionally. What happens physically is that I get depersonalization/dissociation feelings. I literally cannot feel my body. If I'm typing and it happens, I have to rub my fingers together or pinch myself. I need to find ways to feel grounded. To physically feel as if I'm here. If it goes on too long, I get fuzzy in the brain and sort of zone out.

Feeling like I'm in two different worlds is what I said above - that I exist in different ways - the person out in the Real World, and the crazy person that feels really bad emotionally.

I'm hoping that my H will attend a therapy session with me. As I said, he's not too crazy about doing that. But now that I know more of why I've been feeling the way I have and why I react the way I do, I feel a bit more calm. Thanks!

Remember the week the storm damaged your roof and you took care of all of the repair contacts yourself? THe BG I know can be very strong, please remeber that when things seem overwhelming.

I don't feel like I'm in two different worlds, but when I have panic attacks, I feel like I'm not completely here in this one. My functioning is compromised and I don't feel fully myself when I'm panicking. Is that similar to what you are saying?

Apple, no - that is not how I feel. I just feel that I function in two different places because I feel like I'M two different people - the normal person and the "crazy" BPD person.

Kari, yes, you are right. I discussed that with my T. He said the reason I act competent when I'm in a crisis like the tornado or my mother's illness was because I wasn't having emotions that took me to a bad place. No one was "attacking" me or accusing me of anything. So, like when I lost my cell phone, even though it wasn't as big a deal as having a sick parent, my H got upset with me. I perceived his upsetedness with me as an attack and then attached bad feelings to what he said and to my anger about losing the phone. I see the difference now. I can act competent as long as I'm not being attacked or accused. My T also said I set too high standards for myself, so if I don't reach them, I get angry with myself. So I say to myself "if I was competent and normal, I wouldn't have lost my cell phone." See the difference? I have to learn to stop attaching emotions to the ones I already have. The anger over losing the phone was perfectly normal, but it wasn't healthy to attach feelings of self-hate, abuse and condemnation at myself onto the emotion of anger. He said I should start noticing when/if this happens again. Then maybe I can learn how to stop it.

I feel better today. I am trying to keep my head together, at least until my next T appointment (lol). I usually see my T on Tuesdays but he won't be in next Tuesday, so my appt. is on Thursday. That's a tall order for me, but I'll do my best! I'm trying to be okay. I don't want to constantly beat myself up.

I can't relate to that. Does it scare you to feel that way? (I imagine it would scare me)

I don't know if "scared" is the right word. I find it a bit disconcerting. I guess when I'm in the bad place it can be scary, because I don't think I'll ever come out of it. But when I'm "normal" I don't get scared. I don't totally understand it but I sort of accept it.