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It was brought to my attention a few days ago that I seem to have a problem thinking in the "long term". I agreed then and I agree even more after a few days of observation. I don't really know what I want from this post, but maybe I just need to get some of this written down.

It's almost as if I don't believe in the future, as if it's not real. Another friend asked me once what I'd like to be/have at the end of my life. He was able to name specific things that were important to him. I couldn't. I hate performance reviews because we always have to talk about "goals". I don't HAVE any goals! Serious consideration to a time much beyond "now" feels foreign, unrealistic. Where do I want to be in five years? Heck - I think I could give you a clue about five weeks, but next year just isn't real to me.

This has some serious repercussions in my life. It makes it hard to foresee consequences. It even makes it difficult to connect my consequences with my actions because the time passed between cause and effect can create a disconnect in my mind. I may have better impulse control than I used to have, but I still do not really grasp the concepts of delayed gratification or of working toward something.

I go to the gym for a few days, then I get discouraged and quit because I'm not seeing results. I watch what I eat for a week or two, until I get sick of not losing weight and I slack off. Part of my problem with housework seems to be that I don't comprehend the results of not doing it. Flip side, I'm easily distracted. I can't put whatever new idea I've got off until later because there is no later. Intellectually, I understand all these concepts just fine, but knowing and understanding them on a personal level just draws me a blank.

Perhaps one way to approach goals might be to reframe some of what you already accomplish in terms of goals. For instance, you do have a sort of unspoken goal to have certain things in your life like a car and a place to live, and you work a full-time job, which is a form of delayed gratification, in order to achieve that goal. That's actually pretty impressive.

There may be smaller examples, like brushing your teeth. Few people enjoy brushing their teeth, but the goal is to still have teeth in ten years.

Sometimes coming from a place of acknowledging what you already accomplish can make it easier to extend that out to new things you might want to accomplish, like it's an extension of what you already are doing, rather than something totally new.

This is just what came to mind when I read your post....feel free to ignore if it isn't helpful.

This doesn't address the main problem, but as far as working out, my suggestion, find something you truly like to do, and work out just for the pleasure of it and for how it makes you feel afterwards.

I usually work out on the elliptical. I like it because I stay out of bad weather, it works for me, I can listen to favorite music while I do it, and because the physical activity makes me feel good. Find those good in the moment reasons for working out.

I had these same problems. Luckily, my bf is very goal-oriented so I am understanding now what I must do moreso. In the corporate world (which is what he is a part of), everything is planned and goal-oriented. For instance, for exercise, one must create a plan and goals for say, six months beforehand, of course reevaluating and changing them as need be as you learn what one is capable of, but always pushing for more. I find I have problems with motivation (which may be some of your problems as well), but I am gaining some momentum. It takes a lot of thought to get there, but my next stop is motivational tapes. The more I hear this stuff, the more it drills into my head and becomes what I believe. It takes a concerted effort everyday to remain focused, and long-term goals must be set and then broken down into smaller goals which filter down to scheduling and being motivated enough to adhere to a daily schedule, which will eventually meet your long-term goals. And do what it takes to get there, if that means writing lists you get up to every morning and review, or listening to motivational tapes in the morning to get going, or looking at hot bods that you want to look like. But one must really want that body or the health, or whatever it is that is motivating you to exercise (mine is a combination of things), and know what work it takes to get there beforehand (or, I've found that's what I am finding out as I warm up for an exercise plan myself - which I am in the process of implementing). And I think the mind-work prep beforehand is motivating, to define and know exactly what I am going to do before I do it, and then do what's necessary to get there. But I think making goals means that one already has the want and desire to become better and to reach for more, and that's what one must gain within to become. You can grow wants and needs, I have found, and that's what I am doing presently.

I started small - defining the things that are important to me and that I enjoy. And then realizing what I wanted from listening to others and what they had. And I'm still not 100% sure, but I'm getting there. And then when I realize what I want, I go after it, that being by setting goals and making sure my motivation levels are at a certain place, and by making a daily concerted effort to do my best to get there. I made a schedule in a software scheduling program, that was my first step after I had defined what I thought I wanted. Actually, the exercises we did in our workgroup here really helped me tremendously to define who I am and what I wanted. But first you have to know where you're going - and that's what I didn't know. I just went from day to day in cruise control, which isn't pro-active. I was very reactive. And I just wasn't happy that way. I'm getting there, but I can't say it has been easy. And from here, I will continue to work and set goals as I see fit, although mine as of late has been a confused effort. It takes awhile to figure out what I want.

So, I think the first question for doing anything is: What do I want? Do I want to exercise for health or looks or both (or for some other reason)? And then when you define what you want, you go to step two, which is the creation of a long-term plan to get you there. But even before that, you have to realize what it takes to get there and decide if you are willing to be committed to the time it takes to get there.

Also, check out fitness.com. There are tons of resources there for nutrition and exercise, and the forums are great. Forums help me to stay motivated as well, and reading about the things I am reaching for keep me involved and interested.

Ah, Aqua, there's the rub. You've found one of the key weaknesses. I don't understand "what it takes to get there" and so have no clue about the commitment I would need to make. And it's not just exercise. This goes to a lot of areas of my life.

Ellen, you may have hit on something - at least for my present strategy. I CAN be a very "in the moment" person (sometimes, too much!), so your suggestion to look at exercise as an "enjoyable now" activity instead of a means to an end really struck a chord.

Ann, it is interesting to consider the idea that I actually DO have goals that I'm just not aware of. Although I did have to laugh...Actually, the goal is to get rid of the dragon breath right now... But you are right - I have accomplished some unspoken goals, so I AM capable of working toward something.

As far as the exercise goes Minx, maybe you can look at it this way. You say you can't see far enough into the future to recognize that eventually you will/might lose weight. So you can think of exercise as a health-related activity. By that I mean - you are doing it now to strengthen your heart. You can't actually SEE that your heart is getting in better shape, but you know that by doing the exercise, you're taking care of yourself. It's sort of an unseen thing. Does this make sense? So every time you exercise, you can say to yourself - "I'm making myself healthier." Even if you can't see it. It will pay off in the long run. I hope what I'm saying is clear.

I'm trying to lose weight and have not seen much progress. But every time I get on the elliptical machine, I know I'm helping myself. I'm stretching my muscles, which I need to do, and strengthening my heart. I can't actually see anything, but I know it's happening. I hope this helps.

But now we're back to talking about grasping things that I can't see, thinking about "down the road" and "in the long term" - which is the problem!

Intellectually, I know all this stuff. I know it and I can spout it back with the best of them. Intellectually doesn't matter. Somewhere, deep down inside, it's as if I don't believe it. As if the future isn't real. As if today has no impact on the years ahead. As if there is no later. No "down the road", no "in the long term"

Although this does give me another piece of the puzzle...I've got a great history of doing things because I wanted to do them "now" without any thought at all to the future consequences they might have. I've slept around on almost every guy I've dated (a lot). I'd go out, hook up, then go home, and it almost felt as if the hook-up had nothing to do with my actual relationship. Because I'm home "now", and isn't that all that matters? Money, too. A lot of things.

I also have an equally great history of NOT doing things because there was no immediate benefit to the work I was going to have to do. Things like college applications, homework, rehearsal, cleaning house (beyond just throwing a few things away here and there). Things that involve work that takes more than a few minutes, because They're not "making any difference".

I CAN focus if I choose, and I CAN plan ahead (with great effort). It's not ALL blank, but there's definitely a blind spot.

I may be wrong with this, but I think I sort of get what you're saying. From what I've read, people with BPD only can grasp the here-and-now. It's sort of like when you're a baby and mom is in the room. When she leaves, it's as if she was never there and will never come back. So you only think in the here-and-now - so why do things that don't pertain to the here-and-now? Do you think I've got that right?

It's like with dusting. I hate dusting with a passion. I think - "why should I dust? It'll only get dusty again and I'll have to do it all over again." So maybe with exercise it's - "why should I exercise if I don't see the pounds come off right here in front of me right now?" Do you think that's it?

Also, last year my T loaned me a stuffed doggie because I have trouble with object constancy. When I wasn't in his office, it was as if I was never there in the first place. So the doggie reminded me that I WAS there.

When I go on vacation, I always say "I'm here now, I'm here now." Because when I go home, it's like I was never there.

Boy, this is a tough one. I don't know what to tell you. I guess it's something you might need to discuss in therapy. I wouldn't know where to begin. At least you're aware of it. That's a start.

I'm thinking perhaps I sometimes have trouble with this too.

I was thinking, perhaps the kind of thing I mentioned with exercise, perhaps that can help with other things too. Like, find a way to tie something into a very immediate goal and/or a way to make it something you just like doing.

Oh, and I should have mentioned, sometimes exericise can have a very significant mood benefit. (Kinda depends on one's starting place mood wise.)

A LOT of people live this way... from day-to-day with no direction of exactly where they want to go. I know I did for 30 years, and I was freaking miserable. I'm realizing that I am one of these people who can't be happy without being in control of my direction.

I think it is a combination of things, one of which Ellen mentioned (and my bf also emphasized when we discussed it this morning), that the enjoyment of the activity in-the-moment is as important as setting a long-term goal, and if I am looking for the health benefits that come with the lifestyle change, those will happen the first week I begin my routine. And if I am only looking for health benefits (which I am not, I am a bit vain in that way that I want to see bodily results - not extremities, but I do want to see some), then those will happen quickly, the body will take a lot longer. I also figured out what was realistic, that I will never look like the women with a lower-than-healthy bodyfat percentage, because I am not willing to be unhealthy. He also emphasized that exercise is a lifestyle change, that diet is just-as if not more important in seeing results, and so-very important in maintaining health while exercising (which I already figured out by reading). Also, that I must be careful with my heart, that to be sedentary all day and then go do aerobics will shock my system, and could damage my heart down the road. I need to make sure I do something that day, take a walk at some point, to get my heartrate up a bit.

So, there's a lot to it, and to do it in a healthy fashion takes diet changes (eating six small meals a day, in the right fat/carb/protein amounts, etc.) and sticking to a routine (lifestyle changes), and it can get as complicated as you want it to be. But to do it in a healthy way, one must at least adhere to the basics.

I can tell you honestly that I do not like exercising! I do it almost every day because I have to, not because I like it. I do it because I know it's healthy for me and also because I want to lose weight. But it is not because I enjoy it. I'd rather be sitting on my computer or reading a book. :)

One approach that seems to be helpful and attractive to many BPDs, particularly "graduates" of DBT and CBT is Steven Hayes' Acceptance and Commitment Therapy.
Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life
Some of the activities and exercises can seem a bit strange and uncomfortable for some. I found that when I worked them within the context of the book, going from front to back, they made a great deal of "sense". In fact, I ended up appreciating the added learning that comes from these little mental stretches.

Anyway, the basic notion of ACT is that once we have the present under control.. and are able to deal effectively with the challenges that present themselves, we can move toward looking at the future in a constructive and healthy way. So they begin with identifying our core values... finding out what elements of life as we know it are opportunities to experience those values in ways we treasure.. and figuring out how to deal with whatever obstacles may between the present and the future possibility. It's a pretty easy read and I found it a wonderful next step after DBT/CBT work.

Exactly.... identifying core values is the key for me right now. What do I want to do with my life? And that comes down to: what do I value most? And then deciding how much time I want to put into each thing I value. I didn't read a book, I just figured it out I think with the exercise we did in the group, and then went from there. The book you mentioned sounds like a good read.....

I just want to emphasize what a huge impact it is having on my mindset and my life to think in the long-term and to reach for something that doesn't happen easily and quickly. The now is only so gratifying. Long-term gains are showing so much growth within for me. All those things I had trouble with seem to be dissipating and changing into something else - transforming to where the now is being created for the future me, which will be better than ever before. I haven't ever felt better in my life. Each day is so much better than the one before it, because with these goals comes direction and a future. I can make things happen, that's the greatest thing in the world for me, and really, all I ever wanted.

Thanks IBF. I read the synopsis of the book on the link you provided. Of course I haven't looked at the book itself, but it seems theres some Radical Acceptance in there. Looks very interesting!

I can't say I have long-term goals in my life right now. I'm trying to deal with the here-and-now and make sure that I don't suffer today. I pursue activities that give me purpose and when I'm involved in them, I'm usually out-of-my-head. When I'm engaged, I'm too busy to think about myself. It's when I'm alone that I go into my head.

These activities have become very important to me and have led to a lot of growth. I honestly can't say I have major goals for the future - I'm at the point in my life where we'll be retiring in a few years. So whatever goals I can identify won't be professional ones. I'd say that in the future I'd like to be doing what I'm doing now.

As long as I can keep myself focused and not dwell too much on myself, I'm okay. I basically have to take things minute-by-minute. I've always tended to think either too much in the past or too much in the future, and that's not healthy for me. So to stay in the here-and-now has been a goal of mine. I need daily activities that keep me occupied.

I think Radical Acceptance is a big part of this. Accepting what is - what can and cannot be. I have health problems so Radical Acceptance plays a big part of that too. I have to learn how to pace myself.

I'm sorry - I didn't mean to go off on a tangent about myself here. This is just such an interesting topic.

I disagree, BG. I think you need to think about yourself a lot more. Keeping yourself occupied will only preserve your current state of mind. You need to go into your head, and figure it all out. Once you do that, you won't want to do what you are doing now.

I don't understand Aqua. I don't mean to be argumentative, but what is wrong with I'm doing now? I have activities that are meaningful to me and that help other people. What's wrong with that? I used to focus so much on the past and present that I was never in the here-and-now. So I'm trying to be present more. Why is that not right? Whatever issues I have I address with my T. I thought that was all good stuff.

What's "wrong" (which may not ever be "wrong" for you), is that it isn't coming from the right place, which is you. You have to branch off from your H and your T.

That's what i think, I'm no psychologist or psychiatrist, but i sense that the things you do aren't for you, and aren't coming from you. You're saying and doing things that your H influenced you to do. That's what it seems like. I've been there myself. But the self won't grow until you branch off from them and the influence they have. It's ok for now though, don't put so much into my stuff until you are ready to. I think you talk yourself into staying where you are, that's what your words appear to do. You seem to always have a reason to be there, such as being ill or your age.

My volunteer activities have nothing to do with my H or my T. I "found" them myself. It's something I have a passion for. My H has nothing to do with this. I do it for myself and also to help other people. I've been involved in this since before I met my T. I'm not quite sure what you mean. Maybe we should start a different thread so we don't hijack Minx's thread?

Volunteering is fine, BG. I never meant to imply that everything you do is because your H or your T told you to do it. I honestly don't have any more time to put into this discussion, so I'm gonna bow out. I don't think it's good for me to post to someone when I am not going to be able to put in the time to explain, so I probably won't post to you much in the future.

Whatever you're comfortable with Aqua. I couldn't follow the gist of what you were trying to tell me. I need things spelled out and I can't follow your communication style.

No problems.