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I have been thinking about how dependent I am. I am dependent on my H. I am dependent on my T. I have never been alone. I got married at 20 and went from living with my parents and sister to living with my H. He's always taken care of me.

Part of me wants to be independent, but part of me is afraid. I'm like the little 2-year-old who toddles away from mommy, but then comes running back. I resent it when my H treats me like a little kid, but deep down that's what I want. I've never taken care of myself. I don't know how. Both physically and emotionally. And now I'm dependent on my T too. I want him to take care of me.

Do any of you have this experience? I was brought up in the 50's when girls were taught that we should get married and have a H take care of us. Even though I was there during the Women's Movement, I didn't take it all in. I believe in women being independent, I just can't manage it for myself. It's too scary. How do we get to that place?

wish i could help but i need the opposite! i wont let myself be taken of,,,that is too scary for me. as i was the caregiver as a child, im too afraid of being let down.

we need a balance, i think. think for ourselves, act for ourselves, but still need another.

im curious where you learned the dependence? and what is means to you? does it indeed mean your a child? do "adults" not do that? if you want to expand on this a bit?

funny, your afraid of being independent and im afraid of being dependent. go figure!

what does dependent mean to you?

can you take small baby steps?

My mother took care of everything while I was growing up. I was independent in some ways - I grew up in NYC and learned at an early age how to take busses and subways to get around. I had full run of the neighborhood and beyond. But I was dependent on her for many things. When I started working, she took care of my money. As soon as I got married, my H took over. Maybe I was lazy, I don't know. It was easier for others to do things for me that I didn't like to do. I always worked, so I was independent in that way. But I've never been alone and don't know how to do it. Can't do bills or insurance or any of that stuff. I suppose I could learn if I had to.

I also don't like being alone. Well, back up. I don't mind being alone in the house as long as I know my H will be coming home. But sometimes when he goes away, I freak. I had a meltdown this winter when he went away. It was terrible. I had had the foot surgery and was stuck in the house and it was snowing and i couldn't get out and I just freaked.

My big fear is that something will happen to him and i'll be alone. I don't know how I would manage. He's like my husband, mother and father all rolled into one.

But on the other hand, when he does try to tell me what to do, I rebel. Like a little kid. He wants me to be independent, but I sometimes refuse. I go back-and-forth. I don't mind being independent as long as I know he'll be there as a safety net.

I don't trust myself. I don't believe I'm a true adult. It's like i'm pretending. When I act like a true adult I feel like it's an act. I can do it, but only for so long. It doesn't last.

I guess part of me doesn't want to grow up. I think of myself as a little girl. I'm like that with my T too. I like him taking care of me. I'm so dependent on him emotionally. I like knowing he is there for me and will help me. He's also like a safety net for me.

I know it's all due to the way my mother raised me. I'm not blaming her - I'm just being realitic. That's the way she was. She was a very take-charge person. Like I said, I waver back-and-forth.

perhaps she gave you the message you werent capable of doing it yourself? and being your mom, you believed it (maybe not conciously) and kept the pattern because, hell yes, its much easier and safer.

how about baby steps? you may indeed need to know a few basic skills someday, and that would not be the ideal time to learn them.

this is inner child,...and now your scared to step out. i sure can understand that, even tho mine is the opposite side of yours, its still fear. and its still fear of being let down and being wrong.

when one does things for another they are capable of, it sends the message they arent. it sends a message they cant. and moms sometimes do because they love their kids so much they dont want them hurt. and because its easier for us to do it than teach our kids. i am guilty of this! i force myself to tell my daughter to do things herself. she would sit back and let me do it all if she could.

i think you have some excellent insight into this already.

is there some small steps you can try?

Neither. Both are extremes. black or white. The grey area is "interdependence."

amanda, could you elaborate on what you mean please?

I can relate to wanting to be, and being, dependent because I was raised the same way. My mother did too much for me. I didn't even bathe myself at 8 years old. No wonder I grew up being so unsure of myself. I always thought of myself as "Peter Pan", who never wanted to grow up. My H handles the money, and makes the major financial decisions also. My T told me I should learn more about taking care of myself. I think that's good advice.

I also wanted my T to take care of me. Her goal was always for me to become independent, which is why she encouraged me every time I took a step in that direction. She was thrilled when I traveled alone, to such a far place.

I don't think you are as dependent as you think you are. You are active in organizations independently from your husband. You make decisions by yourself. You know what you want your house to look like. You don't ask your H for every little thing. There are degrees of dependence.

The therapy situation, no matter what kind, encourages dependence, I think. It's so easy to depend on your T. However, you have a good T, and he's not going to let you hang onto him like that.

You did manage without your H. It will become easier if you try. I used to panic every time my H went on a business trip, but I learned to accept it, and I made plans for myself. I had no choice, and I became more independent.

Like Amanda said, it's not black or white. You can be dependent on your H for some things, but independent in other ways. You can depend on your T for support, but not be totally dependent on him. It's all a matter of balance.

Thanks. Yes, I do make some decisions for myself. I believe my mother did those things because in her mind, it was just easier than having to teach us. My sister and I were very immature and it was easy to let her take over.

I think I pick-and-choose. When my mother died, I had to take over. I took care of all her banking papers and insurance and everything else. I did a great job and didn't screw up. So I think if (G-d forbid) something happened to my H, I could take over. I need to ask him where all the papers are and what things need to be taken care of - insurance, medical, etc. It's just a matter of being organized.

I think this is how I see myself. I don't believe I can change, but I'm sure I can. I see other women doing it. I'm sure I can.

I also kind of see my H and my T as a sort of safety-net. Like, I can sustain independence for a short period of time, but then would go back to being dependent. Basically, I need to learn to do as much for myself as I can.

Also, there's physical dependence and emotional dependence. I definitely rely on my T for emotional dependence. With my H, it's both. My H does things for me - my T doesn't. I guess I need to fine-tune this balancing act and also realize I'm more independent that I think I am.

Wikipedia has a pretty decent explanation of interdependence:



I see it as knowing you are your own person, and choosing to rely on another for certain things, while at the same time, the other relies on you as well.

I'd say that's where I am Trinity. I don't rely on my H to tell me who I am or what I should do. He relies on me for certain thing and I rely on him for certain things. Maybe I'm reading this wrong and I think I'm more dependent than I really am. I'm seeing it in too much black-and-white. Okay, so what I have trouble with may be the paperwork - the insurance, bills, etc. But I'd probably be able to do it if I had to. Only one person in a household can take care of these things. I take care of other things. So it's not like I'm totally dependent on him.

I had an uncle whose wife couldn't do anything - I don't know why. But he did everything for her, including tying her shoelaces. She wasn't incompetent or mentally unable - she just didn't do it. I wouldn't want to be like that.

And is it so bad to be emotionally dependent on people? To some extent, many of us are. We depend on our S/O's, our friends, our children. It all depends to what degree we are dependent on them. I love my H and like being with him. Not 24 hours a day of course. But I like spending time with my H.

I guess I'm seeing this as too black-and-white. Like, either I'm totally dependent or totally independent. It's good to know there's a happy middle.

I have a clue what Amanda may have been talking about, and I know how this question sounds to me.

Any time I hear someone ask about opposites and say "Which one?" I get a big red flag. "Which one" of two extremes is a very black and white thinking pattern, and I know that in my own personal experience it's an unhealthy thinking pattern. One OR the other doesn't allow for the balance of BOTH, and it leaves me with a dangerous gap in my understanding.

There are SO few things that really are a question of This OR That. That kind of B&W, extreme thinking gets us in trouble again and again because it just isn't how things are. A better question might be "How can I better balance This and That?" or maybe "I'm feeling awfully this - what can I do to build up some more That?" Even if we don't understand right away how anything can be both This AND That, phrasing our question "in the middle" helps prepare our mind to learn about that center ground. The answer is almost always in between the extremes.

Yes Minx. I think I understand that now. It makes me feel so much better. I hate to think of myself as a wholly dependent person. And I do see signs that I am independent in some areas. So it's not black-and-white. That makes me feel more like a whole person too. I also hate to think that I drag people down. I have always thought black-and-white and am learning to let that go. I've been like that ever since I was a little girl. All-or-nothing thinking. Thanks for pointing that out!!!!

Basically what Minx said. When I hear a question like that I hear a person talking about 2 polar opposites and neither by themselves is healthy. Interdependence is a little bit of of both dependency and independency. AN example I can think of with the T relationship in particular; is that one can have a deep trust and dependency upon the T during a session, but then one manages day-to-day life without them. This doesn't neccessarily mean being completely independent as one may have a close friend or partner or a support board that one can also depend on.

For me interdependence sums up as: I trust that I can take care of things on my own, in the absence of somebody that I can lean on, but if somebody happens to be available and willing to help me, and I can ask them for their assistance; then I will. It's about not always running to X for help and not always shutting people out and trying to do it all by myself.

I swing more towards independency because of the environment I grew up in, where nobody was trustworthy or safe and my needs weren't met anyway, even if I asked. It was only in therapeutic relationship that I learned that it is ok to depend on others, some of the time and it's ok to ask for help and to allow others to assist me.

It would seem that over-care-taking in childhood can lead to over-dependency in adulthood, and fear of being independent; and lack of care-taking in childhood leads to the other extreme - over-independency and fear of trusting and allowing others into ones world.

BG - I'm sure that you do lots of things independently from your T or H. Maybe you're more in the grey than you think.

Yes I am Amanda. I realized from this post that I'm more in the gray than I realized. Part of it for me is that I've known my H for 42 years and I don't know what I'd do if something happened to him. We've been together since I was 15 and he was 16. That's a long time! And I do depend on him for certain things. But that's not to say I couldn't do those things myself. I'm seeing that now. It's really a question of me getting off my ass and doing them, if I need to. Thanks to you all for helping me to see that!

thanks, amanda. i think you said it perfectly.

""""It would seem that over-care-taking in childhood can lead to over-dependency in adulthood, and fear of being independent; and lack of care-taking in childhood leads to the other extreme - over-independency and fear of trusting and allowing others into ones world."""" this probably isnt true for everyone, but for me it is. even reading the words "depend on someone" i cringe inside. ack. no thanks. i doubt i will ever be able to do that or believe in it. i dont want to, unfortunately. fuck the idea of someone helping me out...gives too much power to them.

ty for explaining it a bit more. i did follow that. what a ideal it would be to do it.

BG, i do think, is far more independent that she realizes. or maybe subconciously wants to be. that is why , when needed, you can step up and handle things, gf. you just may not be ready to admit conciously you are more in the gray.

"""I trust that I can take care of things on my own, in the absence of somebody that I can lean on, but if somebody happens to be available and willing to help me, and I can ask them for their assistance; then I will. """" im glad you can do this, amanda. i wish i could....but no, i dont. too scary. maybe because so few ever offered the help, i wouldnt believe them anyways.