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I'm starting this post because of what someone wrote about "fits." Some of you seem to be okay with the description. But I do not.

I have seen someone have an elipeptic attack. It was called a "fit." It was horrible to watch. The girl was out-of-control, laying on the floor, writhing and having convulsions. We (7th graders) just sat there, not knowing what to do. It scared the pants off of me!

I find it demeaning to say someone is having a fit. It's bad enough to have epileptic attacks, much less have them be called fits. The poor girl I saw probably didn't know what was going on the first time she had one, and she was probably scared out of her mind.

To use the word "fit" to describe behavior that people with BPD use, to me is demeaning. It's bad enough we've got this illness. Many of us are working on our problems. Sure, sometimes we may seem out-of-control to others. But it's a problem we have. I don't care what the dictionary says - to me it's demeaning and disrespectful to be said I'm having a fit. It reminds me of the invalidating behavior others have heaped on me during my life.

I'm not going to tell anyone to stop using that word. I'm just explaining how it makes me feel. To me, it reminds me of calling mentally challenged people "retarded". We are all thinking, feeling human beings. We have problems with our feelings and how we express them. People with mental illness have been struggling for respect for centuries. To say we are having a "fit" is like going back to medieval times. Just my opinion.

I don't know...to an outside observer who can't see inside my head, my "fits" may well seem to come out of nowhere, to be out of control, to be unpredictable and terrifying. Depending on the circumstances, it may be as appropriate descriptor as anything.

Since that word has unpleasant connotations for you, what other words would you use to describe this?

I don't know Minx. Maybe just being out-of-control would sound better. That word (fit) just has negative connotations for me. I imagine others don't see it as I do, and that's okay. Sometimes the way I act, and maybe others too, do seem to come from out of nowhere. My reactions often are from out of nowhere - I react at a moment's notice. It can be scary to other people. Heck, it's scary to me. I think BPD has such negative connotations in the first place. When I first learned of BPD, I took it to be a judgment on people. I didn't realize it was an illness, I just thought it was a character problem. I had no education. So when people see how we react, it's no wonder they think we're having fits. I think to the problem I had with the office staff at my T's office. I didn't know this, but they complained about me to my T. How embarrassing is that? So maybe "over-reacting" might be a better term. I guess it doesn't matter. People are going to use whatever words they want. I can't stop them. I was just giving my opinion of how I feel about it.

Just as input on how the word comes across...

When I hear or read "have a fit" what comes to mind is someone getting really angry about something. For me, the word doesn't connect with epileptic seisures, since I haven't heard them talked about with that word. I've mostly heard "She had a fit" (or he meaning "she got really angry" (over what ever issue was mentioned).

So, I don't see the word as having any stigma. But, I don't like that idea of using the word "fits" to describe how someone regularly acts. I do think it might be better to find describe it.

Although, there's a limit to how much I can comment, since I don't tend to have fits, or rages, or whatever one calls them. I'm pretty much posting here just to say how I see the word. I can't really give much input on possible alternatives.

Yes Ellen - I've heard the word used as to when one gets angry. He had a fit over that. Yes, that's true. But I have seen a person have an epileptic seizure, and it traumatized me. Hence I dont' like the word "fits." I guess I can understand using it when someone gets angry.

But I don't like it when it's used to describe BPD behavior - I just find it demeaning. But as I said, that's me.

Sorry to drag something else into this but how does "just explaining how it makes me feel" relate to recovery work?

From the sounds of "just explaining how it makes me feel" it almost seems like "here's my backhanded way of getting up on my soapbox to see if I can rally support for my POV, to prove the other person wrong/bad for saying that."

If this were about healthy, happy living, I would expect to see more of a discussion about "how can I best handle situations where I find demeaning words, terms or action is used that other people may not find demeaning" rather than "just explaining how it makes me feel."

Or "I seem to find certain things very demeaning where others are okay with it and I'm having trouble reconciling my POV - are my thoughts healthy or BPD?" versus "just explaining how it makes me feel."

I don't know if I understand Ash what you mean. It helped me to discuss how this term felt in terms of my happy healthy living. I did not use this as a backhanded way to explain my POV. I'm sorry if I worded it wrong.

BG, the word "fit" has negative connotations for you, but apparently not for others. I think it would ultimately be easier, and healthier, for you to accept that, and let it pass when people say it in a non-seizure context.

When I was first dxed bipolar I suddenly became hyper aware/sensitive when people would joke, "S/he must be bipolar!" about someone who behaved badly. Good grief, I seemed to hear somebody say it once a week. But after a while I realized they just did not understand. And it was fruitless for me to try to explain the true meaning of bipolar.

It was easier and healthier for me to just let it pass, not take it personally, and move on.

jim

I think calling a seizure a "fit" is very old-fashioned. I have only ever heard seizures called, well, seizures. "Fit" has become part of a more modern vernacular just like "Gay" now has a whole new meaning. Words evolve. I think it's very common now to hear, "She's having a fit."

I've been accused of having "snit fits" and "hissy fits" for decades. The word is essentially meaningless to me, though I can see that in some contexts it bothers you. Like Ann, I almost never hear someone refer to a seizure as a fit.. just a seizure and there is no negative connotation about it except that it's scary for all involved.

Are you beginning to feel some concern that your T and perhaps others are considering the possibility that you have some symptoms that are beyond the ordinary in the BPD diagnosis?

If the shoe fits, BG.... you may either wear it or throw it at somebody. Either way, it's a fit.

I am in awe!!

I did explain that this is how I (only) felt, and that I knew that others may not feel the same way (please re-read my posts). I was just talking about myself, not anyone else.

When I was a kid, and the girl had seizures, I had severe anxiety over it. I was afraid I would have seizures too. And when I started dissociating in school, I was afraid they would lead to seizures. So I'm very sensitive about this. And back in the 60's when people were much less P.C., they did refer to them as "fits."

I never meant that everyone should feel or think the way I do. I just told how I felt. Nothing more. I thought this was a place we could explore our feelings.

I haven't thought that my T might be telling me I have diagnoses other than BPD. He did tell me I had schizotypal features, which I still don't 100% understand, but that never entered my mind when I began this post.

Feedback, for what it's worth.....
This, to me, is the "meat" of your original post:

If you associate the word "fit" with what you saw as a girl, then of course you have a bad reaction to the word today. This is the part of your post that does not read like a lecture to me. It is very honest and real...it's your direct experience with the word. I can sympathize with this part. I did not sympathize at first, though, because I was reacting to my own feeling of being lectured to by the rest of the post.

I was not lecturing anyone. I just wanted to relay my experience and how I feel. Thank you Ann!

I think this was a good example of how just giving the information I quoted could be more effective than the explaining, which is what's being discussed in one of your other threads. The explaining did not help your cause from my own POV as one member of your audience. This is very helpful for me. I am one who explains, especially to my BF. I am certain that I have come across to him as lecturing. So I'm trying to learn from this, too.

I like it when people use 'person-first' language, (e.g. X has a dx of bp, rather than X is "a bp"), and I think that since language invariably shapes attitudes, that not using terminology like 'crazy', etc., is important, (although I have certainly done it in my day and, unfortunately, still do at times).

I think the key is, when possible, to not take the use of the terminology personally, (which I know is difficult to do sometimes), while still taking the opportunity to object to its use, not in a lecturing way perhaps, but by example or discussion of how the use term, for e.g. 'fits', is experienced by us individually.

Just my two cents. :-)

BG, when I was 19, in the military during a pickup basketball game my best friend tripped while going full speed and crashed the back of his head into a tile wall. He landed on the floor, unconscious. In seconds, he started turning blue, shaking and jerking violently, thrashing and bouncing all over the floor. Eight guys stood there watching. Knowing it was gonna be a bad move, I grabbed his jaws/teeth to pry them apart and gave him CPR through the nose. Got his tongue out of the airway and yelled for a shoe or something to stick between his teeth, but he clenched again too fast and got my fingers again. It took two more guys to get them apart. Later, he got out of the hospital before they were finished sewing my fingers back together.

A year later, we were racing our horses and his went down in front of mine. He flew off and the back of his head hit an asphalt curb. Ripped a deep ten inch tear across his scalp, exposing skull. He had another seizure, but this time I had a (bloody) towel for his teeth. At the base hospital, there were no docs so a corpsman and I sewed his head back together.

Seizures and fits suck. It's awful to see them because we feel so helpless and never forget the sight or the feeling. You have my sympathy on that count, believe me.

off the subject a bit, hey BG, smack me if ya want:)

jim, i do that also. if someone only knew what real bipolar is, and we have a example of it on the board now actually, they would not be saying such and such is being bipolar just to describe their behavior at the time. it is a huge cause of suicide, it is a serious mental illness, and my daughter has it along with schizophrenic type stuff. pdr said she was borderline paranoid schizophrenic..figure that one out!

i really related to what you said. im not past it yet completely, as im still in the middle of accepting that i have a daughter who is severely mentally ill. and she is 30 and altho i "know" it, hearing it like that just about blew me away.

yes, its healthier to let it pass but so hard to do sometimes.

i admit, when i heard the word "fit" in the other thread, i went right to my daughters behavior and how i feel about it. and the use of the word, i cringed when i realized how many must be saying something like that about my kid. oh, she has fits alright. she has seizures, she has bipolar, the other, she has brain damage from her meningitus, but the whole thing just slapped me upside my head when i read it.

altho i said i was convinced, mainly to keep the peace and lighten up the mood to avoid a confrontation, it still hurts to hear "fit" the way it was used to describe someones behavior. "bpd fit" well i guess so.

the same with the words "act like a retard" or "tard" is a big one nowadays./ my great uncle was disabled, deaf and mentally handicapped. i still cringe at that word "tard".

i think its ok to just post...hey i dont like that word used like that. we dont tell someone they cant use it, we just say we dont like it and voice our view that it comes across TO US as wrong. nothing wrong with doing that, it opens up a nice thread to learn from and discuss things. and why certain words leave a bad taste in our mouths sometimes.

i guess i see it as bpd acting out is a manifestation of deep pain.

bipolar is a symptom of brain processes gone awry. death could be very close for that person in their own world of nightmares. and their pain is incredible. their families pain is incredible. they arent choosing to behave badly.

mentally handicapped are put on this earth to show love. yes, they arent as "smart" bookwise as some others, but they have more love in their finger than some have in their whole body. to ridicule someone as a "retard" is ......wrong.

2 cents in the pot from jody*

BG, one of my sons had childhood epilepsy, and one of the most horrifying moments of my life was when he had his first seizure. He was 1. So I do understand where you're coming from.

Jody, then you and I get each other on this. It is really damned hard not to want to jump down someone's throat for misusing "bipolar," especially if they're wisecracking. I learned to tell myself, "They just don't understand, they just don't understand, and it's not my job to make them."

yes, jim, it is. i understand the concept, but i want to educate people so damn bad on this. so sometimes depending on how mentally healthy i am that day, i will pop off and say something.

maybe because we know how bad bipolar can be and how it is NOT someone behaving badly just off the cuff.

i need to ask you a question, may i open up a new thread to you, jim?

Just something I accepted. The whole world doesn't know psychology like I do. They can't be expected to. It's not that close to home for them, something else is and is their interest. Maybe their child has muscular dystrophy, and I don't know anything about that. Yes, people around do make jokes and say "crazy", "delusional", "bipolar", "psycho", etc. to describe people that are acting a little wacky. I've learned to accept that, just like I've learned to accept the fact that ALOT of people will continue to focus on things that matter very little in the grand scheme of things. I couldn't care any less what anyone thinks about bpd or that I have/had it or not. When I see the issues and problems that befall average people who are disorder-free, I am convinced that I don't need to worry.

Just to add a lil thought on the epliepsy / fit thing!

After some long boughts of EEGs I was diagnosed as having frontal lobe epilepsy I have never had a seizure as you might think of them. But people did used to say of my behaviour she is having a "fit." Little did they know how close they were to the truth. But they were refering to my behaviour only at the time. As someone that has them (or thanks to meds don't) I have no issues with the word being used in anyway.

Multiple uses and meanings for so many words in the english language don't you think? Especially as one can get fit, a doc might fit me in, I could have a hissy fit, or an epileptic fit my jeans fit. Context comes into play more than anything I would think! Take any word out of context it could be saying something completely different.

Tracy, and to add to the confusion, "Being fit" or "Getting fit" is something most of us want!!! It's truly a multipurpose word.

We all bring our own baggage to words and phrases. It's like when my H said I was "going psycho!" For me, that added fuel to the fire. I know he was frustrated and didn't know what else to do or say, but it hurt nonetheless. I think it all boils down to a matter of respect. And terminology changes all the time and what is acceptable. Look at the African-American community. Over the past 40 years there have been many different names to describe them. You have to constantly know what is PC. But getting back to mental illness, it's still a matter of respect. Of course we never know that one word may be okay with one person and not with another. We need to try to see things through others eyes and think how we would feel in the same situation.

I would never tell someone else how to think or feel. I am just relaying my own experience. We're learning all the time.

tracy, that is my daughters seizure disorder also.

how interesting.