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Can you tell me one thing that you think you might do that doesn't involve your own self-interest? It could be anything, in any situation, in any set of circumstances, in any stretch of the imagination.

Ash this is one of those questions that is gonna have me now. You watch this will have me wake up in the night.

Off the top of my head the most obvious answer is helping someone out. But having thought on that again, helping someone out in whatever way shape or form that is, is about my own self interest, my conscience, my actions, my perspective, my self fullfillment..... me, me, me! (oh and a lil for someone else into the mix)

ummmm..... I am off to dream me up an answer...... right now no I can not think of a thing!

lol I was actually thinking about how selfish I was this morning....

There are things that I do that would be considered helping others AND myself. I don't think there is one thing I do that involves completely helping another with no self-interest AT ALL. Alot of the things I do that appear to be, really have something to do with my own self-interest. Just because one volunteers or steps out to help another doesn't mean that doesn't have something to do with their own self-interest, or is completely in their own self-interest, which is what I am finding about myself and others lately.

my husband has been really sick these last few days, which has been really hard on me and a lot of stress, but i am trying to be as considerate and helpful as i can be, considering how depressed i have been lately.

anyway, last night i went to the store to get some tp, and came home with some really nice massage cream and gave him a back rub, cause i knew his back was hurting really bad. i felt pretty good about it, and he was very suprised and thankful, so it was definately a good positive experience.

erin

At the same time, I think one can find that they can do things to help themselves, and therefore others, or they can choose to do things that will harm themselves and others. Self-interest or not, one can drive themselves to do things that are considered "good", or one can drive themselves to a place where they are self-damaging and hurting others. One can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution. I suppose what drives them there is less significant than the overall results.

I see a lot of people who lived a pretty selfish existence for most of their lives, but at the end of their lives, spend most of their time giving back what they earned.


What about you, Ash? Is there anything you do that is done in no self-interest?

I think there are many different types of self interest.

I think this is vastly different to whether or not something is in your best interests.

Ash are you studying philosphy? This reminds me of one of my assignments!

Actually, I can. Sometimes I give advice that will only hurt me in the long run. It will cause a lot of women not to like me, most likely. But I do it because I have experience in certain situations, and I see what is there, and I want to warn the person, for them, and because I would like to see women do better in society. I think it's such a waste what some otherwise smart women choose to do with their lives (and that includes me, until I get my shit straight). It's definitely against my own self-interest. I go against the grain sometimes, and am invalidating when it comes to women and their processes and the choices they make. And I am finding that I am usually on-the-mark....

I've tried to back off a bit on that end. I'm working on being a better communicator, and to get my messages straight, so women might actually hear me lol.

OK this may be way off track but...

I would be doing something that wasn't to do with my own self interest if

eg Joe Bloggs walks down the same street every day for five days and I notice that everyday he trips up in exactly the same place, in the same pot hole.

If I point out to Joe Bloggs that I have noticed this pattern I do this out of concern. A way of giving him an opportunity to end his own suffering as I see it.

I have done all I can to explain my observation. If Joe Bloggs continues to walk down the same street and trip on the same pot hole. He has made an informed choice.

The point at which it would become in my self interest to make him see this, is if it distresses me that he continues to trip after I have told him. To further engage with Joe Bloggs that he does that, because my desire now is to have him hear that I am right that would be acting from a place of my own self interest.

So are empathy, compassion and sympathy, geniune concern for another from a place of self interest in anyway? I am now asking myself!

Well, I've had difficulties with this.... I wanted to ram the lessons down someone's throat, or make them see something they couldn't or wouldn't see. Actually, my bf and I had this conversation last night, concerning my mother. About how we are basically in the same situation... that we see the problems and the solutions, but all one can do is point them out. One can't force another to see or take action. So once we have taken it upon ourselves to point them out, that's all we can do. If the person doesn't take the advice and choose another way in spite of our direction, to continue to try to get it across to them is a co-dependent pattern. I don't think it's necessarily always done out of self-interest, although it can be, because you can want to change someone because of the way you feel, or because you want to be proven right, which is what you described. It can still be done in an effort to change the person "for their own good", or for their own growth, or because you care, but it is focusing on someone other than ourselves, in a pattern that becomes unhealthy for both. People need room and time to grow, and maybe they won't ever see, or want to see, what I am trying to show them. I have had to accept that.

I can't think of anything. Even if I did something totally altruistic, I would still feel good about it, or at least avoid feeling bad, which would be in my own self interest.

maybe the point isn't whether or not we receive any benefit (there isn't anything wrong with that), but whether we are willing to go out of our way to do something nice for someone even if we don't feel like it (like the idea in dbt of opposite action). at least that's what i thought when i first responded to this post. everyone has self-interest, at best it is rational, at worst it is selfishness. i would like to think that one could have rational self-interest (that comes with healthy self-esteem) and still have the ability to be generous and compassionate. i don't think that is a contradiction.

just some thoughts tonight.

erin

I do wonder the point of the original post, the point of asking the question.

I guess my answer is no. Some things may be more selfish than others, but I can never remove self-interest.

And then I start wondering... what does self-interest mean?

I think the biological drive to do good for others evolved because helping others tends to provide benefit back. That's why we (humans) tend to help our friends/allies and not our enemies.

I think our bodies and minds are genetically hard wired to support preservation of the species. So we are not inclined to do anything that would hurt us. Therefore we would likely see some benefit from most any act we're moved to make.

Except, of course, throwing ourselves on an exploding grenade to save a stranger or stepping in front of an oncoming bullet for your kid or your SO. Reflexive, they seem equally natural, but yet not. I suppose self immolation among Vietnamese monks was a form of that with more distant positive consequences.

So, what altruism/self-interest are involved in asking the question?

Could've fooled me.

Yeah, well there is THAT, of course. And that other thing... yeah...

Perhaps our presence here is proof enough that sometimes the hard wires get mighty crossed and tangled, eh?

Another thought!



Umm if anything others say or do is about them. Then anything I say or do is about me. No?

There's different kinds of self-interest, the more enlightened kind and the short-sighted kind. I do self-destructive things sometimes, but I must be getting something from it.

I'm not sure about the original question. (As someone else here mentioned) sometimes people give their lives for others, but I don't know what they're thinking about when they do.

Well, I think I can give an example, but others may see it containing self-interest.

Several years back an aquaintance of mine went to jail. She had a son, and there was noone to take care of him. I told her that I would watch him for her. I didn't want him to go into the system.

He was one and my youngest was one as well. My husband was deployed, so there I was taking care of three kids, two of which were basically like taking care of twins. I was working full time, going to school full time, and helping my husbands soldiers wives when they had problems.

I paid for everything for Jake (clothes, daycare, food). I drove him to see his mom every other weekend. I didn't get anythin from it. You may think I got some intrinsic value, but in all honesty, half the time I wanted to give up. I guess I just felt like it was the right thing to do for him.

Sorry about that, ya'll. I think the post I tried to put up after I started the thread got lost in the preview process.

I asked because I got caught off-guard when I read something that said any criticism from a place of self-interest may be destructive.

I've been mulling over and meditating on self-interest and selfishness and selflessness for over ten years and I have yet to come up with any example where self-interest is completely absent.

I don't think it's possible.

As Ann said, " Even if I did something totally altruistic, I would still feel good about it, or at least avoid feeling bad, which would be in my own self interest."

The soldier who throws himself on a live grenade to save his platoon knows that his memory will be revered and honored for his actions.

The grown child who provides hospice care to her relatively young cancer-ravaged mother knows that she can feel honorable for giving back to the woman who gave her life.

I know that this place exists in part because of self-interest.

I know that my marriage contains self-interest on both sides of the equation.

I know that my career has been based on self-interest and I know that I've lost jobs due to self-interest.

This thread was triggered by reading what I had about providing criticism to others and I thought "Gee, if I listen to that, I may become a mute instantly."

After a little while of letting this simmer in the back of my head, I think I've decided that what they meant wasn't necessarily about self-interest per se. I think it was a step or two further than that. I think they were in the area of greed or maybe a spiteful self-interest.

I can tell someone "Gee, you might not want to do it that way because this other way could be better for you" and it would still be self-interest. (Why? How? Because I get to feel good if they catch on because I was able to teach something. Or I get to feel smart because I can see something they're currently blind to.)

I could also tell someone "Well okay, fine, if that's the way you want to do it, I guess you can do it that way but that's not the right way" which would be a passive-aggressive mean-spirited expression of a similar message designed to put someone else down to make myself feel elevated or better.

In the first, I can act in both-interest -- my own interests are served by feeling good about helping and their interests are served hopefully by learning something or seeing things a new way.

In the second, I act greedily -- my own interests are served by showing how much better I really am for seeing things that are so obvious but that's not enough so I have to take esteem from the other person by doling out the back-handed insult to their intelligence.

So now I think I am able to go back to that article and actually move beyond the first line to get something out of it. Prior to this, I was stuck in a black-and-white realm where I wasn't allowed to offer anything that might have self-interest attached and that meant I was completely incapacitated.

Now I've moved into the grey and my perspective is that I think the piece would be better with different words so for my purposes, I will substitute my own words into places where it will allow the rest of the message to be functional for me.

At least my brain got working a bit, and I finally came back to the answer I started with. I have actually enjoyed this thread! Anymore?

It sounds like a discussion of constructive criticism, which might be like telling someone how to better perform some aspect of their job for their sake or the company's sake vs. for my own convenience (self-interest.)

Hmmm, then I wonder what I am getting from doing this. There must be a hidden something I'm missing. I think I am seeing it by results, not feelings, in that I could just say nothing and actually have people like me. My bf said if I do it and the person walks away with a negative feeling about me, I failed to do what I set out to do (and I agree).

If you were looking for a take on where the self-interest lies in that, I'd be glad to share but I don't want to just leap to that conclusion. If this is something you'd rather explore for yourself, I'll step back.

When does this ever happen?

Sure, I would like to hear your ideas.