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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:54 am 
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Thanks, Jody. You have been a huge help to me lately. I will consider what you have said. I agree re: his idea of love vs. mine. That is a big factor in all of this mess... Can we repair our "relationship?" I don't know. I am still so skeptical and suspicious of him. All day I have been wanting to hack into his e-mail to see if he is back to talking to other women online. He said he was committed to me and has been for the past month and a half and that he has been working on US but I still want to see some proof, you know? But I can not snoop - I promised him I wouldn't and I don't want to start any trouble. How can I get verification that he is being honest now? I mean, things have not exactly been going smoothly between us lately so I would not be surprised if he was going online again. But how do I find out for sure without breaking my promise?

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:59 am 
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i dont guess you can without checking history and such on the computer. and usually when we do that, we find things we dont want to.

how to do this? to care and trust once its broken? i do not know. im not sure it can be done, not by me anyways. what are you like in this respect? my trust is hard won and easily lost.

how many chances are you willing to give anyone? we each have diff beliefs on this also. and to give another chance you must put all this past behind you. totally, for good. again, im not sure i could do that. we each have our own beliefs. what you are willing to compromise on. what you want from relationships. that kinds of stuff. what he is willing to give and to do.

relationships can be so complicated, eh.

seems to me if he knows you "snoop", and you still found things, he must want to be found out. maybe he is testing you also,seeing if you will check or not.

bless ya....this is one tough situation for ya.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:27 pm 
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Thank you Jody. It is the "put all of it behind you - totally, for good" part that is so hard for me. I am trying to give him a chance to prove his loyalty to me but at the same time I think I need to protect myself and be on the look out for any signs of trouble. I am also going to look for another place to live just so I have a way out if I need it. My trust is not going to be easy for him to earn back. Not after I trusted and believed him before and he betrayed me. Now I am going to be super vigilant!

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:07 pm 
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i think those kind of permanent close the door things are always so hard.

im sorry it worked out this way. i think your doing great at thinking this thing thru, tho. i def think you need to protect a part of yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:01 am 
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GETTING BACK TO RADICAL ACCEPTANCE, which was supposed to be the whole point of this thread...

1. Reality is what it is. I accept that R is who he is. We come from different backgrounds, different cultures and different socioeconomic classes. We are accustomed to different lifestyles. I know all of this and we have worked on our differences before and I have made the choice to be with him. Therefore, I will accept him for WHO HE IS not WHO I WANT HIM TO BE. By choosing to stay with him, I accept that he is a free-spirited, sometimes reckless, sometimes naive, very independent, bachelor-minded person. I accept that he got himself into a bad situation and that he is dealing with that situation.

2. Everything has a cause. R and I had a rocky relationship. I left him, threatened to leave him, and acted impulsively at times. I was committed to him, but he may have had doubts about me. He was seeing other women. One of those women is pregnant. I chose to stay with him even after learning about the pregnant woman and his cheating on me and lying to me. Despite staying with him, I continued to fight against accepting the situation, acted out, got arrested, and caused tension between us which still exists.

3. Life can be worth living even when there's pain. I am hurt and angry because of what happened between me and R. He cheated, he lied, I violated his privacy, I started fights with him, I got arrested, he acted coldly toward me, I tried to resolve things but still refused to accept reality, he remained upset. The pain is still very much there. But only through acceptance of the pain can I avoid suffering. It is not too late to radically accept the situation and work through the pain. If we really want to be together, R and I can build a life worth living, even with all the hurtful history between us. We can take use our experiences to help us grow.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:39 am 
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really good insights!

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:48 am 
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Quote:
I mean, things have not exactly been going smoothly between us lately so I would not be surprised if he was going online again.

You are in a relationship with a man who chooses to deal with difficulties not by communicating with you but by contacting women behind your back. You can radically accept that if you want to, especially in light of the fact that it is unlikely to change (and your gut is even telling you it's going on today).

FYI telling him over and over how much you are hurt when he contacts other women is not radical acceptance.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:44 pm 
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My advice:

1) Stop being involved with people who don't know how to take care of themselves.
2) Start doing what's right for you.
3) Stop worrying about the details and remove yourself from the situation. Anything else is just shit-stirring and bullshit. Draw boundaries for yourself, and make a life absent of bs.

Life can be worth living with pain, if it's not self-induced. Locking yourself into a place that is not ideal for you is digging yourself into a misery hole, a borderline activity. Any reason you can think of for doing it will not be good enough. You are choosing to be in a hole. Radically accepting that will not make it right.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:38 am 
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Hey NAM,

I just wanted to point out that radical acceptance doesn't necessarily mean you have to stay with R. You can truly accept him the way he is but then make the decision that's not what you're looking for in a partner. I think you also need to accept the way you truly feel about this situation, and take that into account. It seems to me like maybe you're trying to stuff down your true feelings and convince yourself you feel what you think you "should" feel?

Quote:
Recent "Ah-ha" moment for me:
I am holding onto what I thought we had instead of looking at what is actually there. I am embarrassed to admit that I was mistaken. Now I am fighting to "keep" something that may have been just a fantasy.

That's a really good insight IMO. I've been there too... it's so easy to do, especially when you're feeling desperate. No need to be embarrassed about it... just keep holding onto that knowledge.
:comfort

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:50 am 
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echoeslikehorses wrote:
Hey NAM,

I just wanted to point out that radical acceptance doesn't necessarily mean you have to stay with R. You can truly accept him the way he is but then make the decision that's not what you're looking for in a partner. I think you also need to accept the way you truly feel about this situation, and take that into account. It seems to me like maybe you're trying to stuff down your true feelings and convince yourself you feel what you think you "should" feel?


Good point, echoes. Especially the part about feeling what I think I "should" feel. I have been looking closely at what is reality vs. what is fantasy or wishful thinking. I wrote a list yesterday - "his background and who he is" and "my background and who I am" to see if I can live with the reality of who he really is and not who I think he may be some day.

I don't have much to say today - very tired and feeling drained of all energy - but I want to thank every one who has been posting and helping me out.

Aqua, you also made some good points. It is time to start taking care of ME and doing what I need to do - and that probably means getting out of this relationship. I do have that in the back of my mind. I just need to get together the money for a new apartment.

Thanks everyone for your support. Maybe I'll be back online later - have to get some work done now!

NAM

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:30 am 
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I would like to write R this e-mail:

Subject: I Promise...

- To stop trying to change you into the man I want you to be - and arguing with you for not being that man - and accept you for the man you really are.
- To accept that you cannot give me the undivided attention that I desire and unconditional love that I crave.
- To recognize reality for what it is, that is: (1) We are very different people from very different backgrounds and we deal with difficult situations in very different ways; (2) We had very different views of our relationship and my definition of our love for each other was different from yours; (3) Your idea of a committed relationship differs from mine; and (4) We have different priorities in life and relationships.
- To take responsibility for my own mistakes and especially for my mistaken view of our relationship and stop blaming you for not having the same view.
- To accept that we did not have what I thought we had.
- To realize that my love for you and devotion to you was not reciprocated by you; that there must be a reason for your non-commital to me; and that you do not owe me an explanation.
- To learn from these experiences and try not to get wrapped up in my fantasies of how things should be; to stay grounded in reality as much as possible
- To let you live your life and stop fighting reality, even if that means we will no longer be together.


I think it places too much blame on him and his actions though and will only anger him some more. It felt good to get it out though and straighten out my head a little.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:35 am 
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let me give you something i learned a long time ago and believe, ok?

relationships are gravy to life and to ourselves.

they are not to raise us or parent us. they are not to work out our inner issues with another. each will have those issues. they are ours...each of us. not the others.

they are not to complete us. "make" us happy. that is our work.

they are the extra...the dessert to the main course of us in life.

if we can see it this way, a lot of burdens fall away. a lot of owning things not ours fall off. a lot of owning our own stuff happens.

they are not there to stop us from being bored or unhappy. they are there as extra gifts in life.

maybe this will help some. it helps me.....to view a relationship in a way i never thought of before.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:58 pm 
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I would suggest considering that a wonderful email to yourself. It's an email you can reread in the future if you need to. All R needs to know, really, is that there are irreconcilable differences, and I suspect he would agree.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:37 pm 
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My thoughts are pretty much like Ann's. It's a wonderful statement for yourself. But it's not what you should say to him.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:58 pm 
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R and I had to go to court yesterday for a follow up on my arrest. We were scheduled for separate appointments with Family Services - his at 9am, mine at 11am. Basically, the Family Services officer just asked each of us to tell our story of what happened. I gave him an abbreviated version and he said "the report says you struck him (R) with a phone" and I said, yes, I threw my cell phone at him a couple of times that night but I had been drinking and was angry about what I had just found out so I was acting out of character. I go before the judge again on Aug. 13 and he will give his decision. The Family Services guy said the judge will probably order me to attend Domestic Violence Counseling. Kind of crazy that all of this is happening from one fit of rage. Very eye-opening I must say. Now R is the "victim" and I am the "criminal". Kind of ironic. So we (R and I) had a decent talk last night. I told him what happened in court, asked him how his meeting with the Family Services guy went. Brought up the subject of couples' counseling (another suggestion from the Family Services officer) and R said he "wasn't sure" if he would attend counseling with me. I think we both know that it's over. There is nothing left to fight for. Very sad that all of this had to happen for us to come to that point though.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:51 am 
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Speaking from a place of acceptance:

Well, it has been a week since R and I had our talk about what is bothering each of us and how we want to proceed. That talk really put things in perspective for me and I am finally able to accept our situation. Here is how I view things right now, coming from a place of acceptance:

1. Our relationship had its problems. We never communicated well enough. I treated him poorly. He saw other people.

2. R's relationship with M was a casual thing that ended with a serious consequence. They probably hung out a few times, maybe went out for drinks a couple times, chatted on the phone and online, and slept together a few times. Their relationship eventually fizzled out and they didn't talk to each other until she found out she was pregnant. She called him to tell him she was pregnant but was not sure if it was his. She called back a month or so later when she knew about when she had gotten pregnant and told him it was more likely that he was the father. He told her that he would take responsibility and do whatever he had to do if it was his kid. He has been in touch with her ever since regarding her pregnancy.

3. R told me about M but he did not tell me the truth. I did some snooping and got the truth myself. I retaliated against him and tried to hurt him back for hurting me. The results were not so good as I (a) got arrested and now have to deal with ongoing legal consequences and (b) put a bigger rift in our relationship. We have now spent the past two months trying to repair our relationship. I have resisted doing the work of repairing the relationship because I have been so caught up on punishing him for hurting me and getting my vindication. It's as though I was using my destructive actions to scream out loud "Go*da**it I'm hurt, I'm angry, I deserve to be angry, and you are going to suffer for it until you make it up to me!"

4. In my rage, I never gave R a chance to "make it up to me" or show that he was sorry and prove to me that he was committed to moving on and making things work with me.

Now that we have had our talk and I have had time to reflect on my own bad behavior, I am finally able to really, truly accept my situation. And I now have the opportunity to make a rational decision about my future based upon what is before me - facts only, no emotions or theories or suspicions. Now I can look at R, how he acts, how he treats me, the things we do together, what kind of person he is, and I can choose to be with him or I can decide that he is not the one for me. And that is what I am doing now. Letting him be himself and allowing myself to feel whatever emotions being with him evokes in me. If I like and am comfortable with those emotions and life seems to be going well, that is when I will know I should stay with him. Otherwise, I will know that it is not right and I should not put myself or R through anymore hardship. Time will tell.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:09 pm 
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lots of work and good insights in that! ((nam))

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:33 am 
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I am still fighting reality. It is getting close now - she is due Sept. 2. Toward the end of last week, I was in a really good place mentally. I was accepting the situation. I told myself I had to give R a chance to prove that he would do what he said he would and remain devoted to me. I told myself that I can't change what happened. She is pregnant, he is under the impression that he is responsible, so he is going to do what he has to do. And that includes talking to her about what's going on with her pregnancy and making plans for taking care of the baby when he is born. I told myself that talking to her is not the same as cheating on me with her. I acknowledged my own pain. I told myself that it is OK that I feel hurt and that it bothers me that he was with another woman while we were together. It bothers me immensely that he is still in contact with that woman. But, given the circumstances, he has to be in contact with her. I decided that I will trust him to keep his relationship with her on a basis of solely dealing with the baby. I would not voice my anger and hurt and lash out at him spontaneously. You see, I have a tendency to bring up things that are bothering me when I have been drinking. Loose lips and all that... So, I knew that this past Thurs./Fri./Sat. I would be drinking. I wrote myself notes saying "be nice" and "no negative thoughts" and "I can control myself when I am drinking and I will prove that to him tonight." And it worked. For a couple of nights. Thurs. night I went to a concert, had a few beers, and we got along fine. I had pushed all thoughts of the pregnant girl out of my head. I had put a lot of energy all day into pushing the pain away and making a plan to be accepting of him and the situation with her. So, no lashing out at him Thurs. night. Then Friday I asked him to pick up a bottle of wine for me. He said "you can drink tonight, but I don't want any bulls***" and I told him that I was in a good place mentally and accepting of everything and that I had been working hard the past two days to push all negative thoughts away and that I was trying to prove that to him, so, there would be no BS. And Friday was fine. But Saturday... we went to our friends' house for dinner. Had a few drinks. My friend offered me another glass of wine and he started to object and I said "I'm fine." Again, I am still in my acceptance mindset. Then we get in the car to go out to a club and he and I are in the car alone, waiting for our friends to come downstairs. His phone rings. He answers it "yes dear" and from the conversation I can tell that he is talking to pregnant girl. I went silent. I didn't know how to react. Our friends got in the car. I quietly sat in the back, trying to fight back tears. R noticed my silence. He asked if I was OK. I lost it. I said "no, I'm not OK." Told him we would have to talk about the phone call he just took. He said "OK, we'll talk." But I couldn't hold it in. I let loose on him. Asked him how dare he call anyone but me "Dear"? Went off on him about answering the phone "yes dear" and talking to his white tr*** baby mama, only 23 years old, etc. etc. he is such a piece of s*** etc. etc. And crying and crying... He threatens to take me home, but says he wouldn't take me back to our place - instead he would drop me at my Mom's and I could spend the night there. When he parks the car I get out and sit on a stone wall, crying. I have no desire to go into the club. One of our friends stays behind to talk to me. It helps. He agrees with me that my hurting is justified. He says he will try to explain to R how I am feeling and why it was so hurtful that he called her "dear." We go into the club. I walk over to one of our other friends while the one who was comforting me goes to talk to R. Moments later, R is telling me that I am the love of his life, I should "fear no other woman", that I am the only one for him, that when he calls someone else "dear" it doesn't mean the same thing it does when he calls me "dear." but he is still angry with me. I can tell.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:07 am 
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She had the baby. On Saturday. He just told me last night. I had a feeling because she had called and he seemed excited about something. But he didn't tell me on Saturday. Nor on Sunday. Last night I got home and said "so, what's new honey? anything new?" and he said "yeah" but didn't say anything else. And I had a feeling that either she had the baby or was about to go to the hospital to have it. So I let it go for a while, cooked dinner, ate dinner, then sat next to him on the couch and just asked him if she had her baby. He said yes. But then she went away to stay with family in PA so he has not seen the baby yet.

It is kind of weird but I feel a little relieved. No more waiting and wondering. Now it is done and we can get paternity test results.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:07 am 
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My boyfriend has a son.
He is not who I thought he was.
He is not who/what I wanted him to be.
Our relationship was not what I thought it was.
We can start over. We live together now - that can be a new chapter, a new beginning.
Since we have been living together, he has been faithful. We have been committed to each other.
I am doing the best I can to deal with a difficult situation.
I can accept my situation as it is right now.
Accepting my situation does not mean I have to like it. I can tolerate it for now and make appropriate changes if it becomes intolerable.
I am the only one who is not "stuck" in this situation. I can walk away.
I can choose to accept him, with all of his flaws, and that means accepting his past mistakes as well. Or, I can choose to reject him and move on.
That is radical acceptance.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:11 am 
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Hi everyone. Thought I would pop back on here for a moment to touch base with you all. I stopped posting here when I realized that I am still caught up in my BPD and not in a place of recovery or working toward recovery, which is the intention of this site. So since I was not doing the work, I left.

I came back to this thread today because I am still working on radically accepting this situation and I really want to find a way to accept it but I am struggling sooo much. So I thought "what better place to discuss Radical Acceptance than BPDR?"

In short - for those who don't remember or don't want to read through this whole thread...

My boyfriend of almost two years was screwing around for a while in the earlier part of our relationship and he got another woman pregnant. That woman decided to keep the baby and he promised to take responsibility and do whatever he has to do for the kid. So, now he has a four month old son with this woman and he sees the kid at least once/week. I made the decision to stay with him and see how things pan out. I wanted to show him compassion and forgiveness and give him a chance to prove himself - that he can change and can be committed to me. And I still love him. And I am having a hard time letting go...

BUT I am having a very difficult time with radically accepting the kid. I keep going back to my belief that this never should have happened, he shouldn't be a father, she should not have chosen to have the kid. Yes I guess there is some "twisted thinking" in here, huh? "Should" statements...

Anyway, I need some help/guidance. If I want to be with him and make things work, I HAVE to find a way to accept the kid. He is probably happy to have a kid and be a father so if I am going to be with him I cannot hinder his happiness with my discontent. How can I do that?


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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:36 am 
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I know that pretty much no one is following this thread anymore and it is waaaay too long now for a new person to want to read through it all, but just for the sake of updating the story... I have been talking to R again. UGH I know crazy! I guess we are "working on things" so to speak. Heck I put so much effort into this relationship and we have both learned so much that it seems a waste to just let it all go down the drain. And maybe all that we have been through has made us stronger and given us a chance at something real. Anyway.......... I finally met the kid! On Sunday. Yeah I know he is almost 10 months old and I am just now getting to meet him! Lots of stuff happened that made it kind of impossible before and made baby Mama not want me to be around the kid but now that time has passed, and she finally let R take the kid for a day by himself, I was able to convince R to let me meet him. Can I just tell you that I DID GREAT. I really surprised myself and am proud of myself and really wanted R to say something like "thanks for being so great" but he didn't :( So I sent him a text that said "thanks for letting me meet G - he's a cutie." and he just wrote back "you're welcome. I'm glad that I get to spend time with you." But I really want to pat myself on the back because it was sooo hard and I had to mentally gear myself up for it, but when the time came, I was amazing. I played with the kid, talked to him, watched R feed and cuddle him and it was good. And I feel a little relieved - like there is less mystery about him and the whole situation.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:23 pm 
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NOM....

Well, you are correct in saying that
NotAMonster wrote:
t is waaaay too long now for a new person to want to read through it all,
......actually, I'd like to but I'm more interested in the here and now for you. So I briefly read through the last page or so and want to respond to your post today.

Congratulations for handling that situation so well!

NotAMonster wrote:
Can I just tell you that I DID GREAT. I really surprised myself and am proud of myself and really wanted R to say something like "thanks for being so great" but he didn't :( So I sent him a text that said "thanks for letting me meet G - he's a cutie." and he just wrote back "you're welcome. I'm glad that I get to spend time with you."


R said he's glad he got to spend time with you......isn't that also something to celebrate! Granted he was focused on his needs and desire......but in this case that seems perfectly appropriate. It sounds like you all had a nice time. It may be that R really had no idea how hard that was for you.....maybe he did.....but maybe not.....

I like it when mysteries are unveiled too....so much easier to just deal with what you know to be and not have something just be imaginary........

;)


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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:38 pm 
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Thanks, Skiotter! I guess I just posted this today to get the validation of my feelings that I didn't feel I got from R. So thank you for the "pat on the back" - that is what I was looking for! Oh boy... I know you are new here and don't know anything about me/this situation but let's just say it has been long, drawn out and drama-filled! Yes R knows how hard it is for me to deal with the baby situation. I guess it is hard for him too. So maybe he was busy dealing with his own feelings about introducing me to the kid and didn't consider MY feelings because I was the one who requested the meeting. But anyway I told him I thought I did great and hoped he felt the same and he agreed but I really wanted him to say it without my coaxing it out of him!

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"If you can forgive the person you were, Accept the person you are, and Believe in the person you will become, You are headed for joy."


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