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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:20 am 
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Thanks, Ann. Obviously I know that I can't influence her decision. I was just putting my anger into words, hoping that would help to alleviate it. It's kind of a "why does it have to be this way?" thing for me. If you recall, I started the thread by accepting the situation and planning on how to deal with it and still have a relationship with my BF. But the more I thought about her, the more I became bothered by the idea of having another woman in his life. It really has to do with some stuff that came up in therapy - discussing his ability to be faithful to me and to be monogamous. There is more history there that I don't want to get into. So I just wanted this pregnant woman to "go away" so BF and I could start anew with our relationship.

Anyway, I feel better today. I am not going to confront this woman and I am going to try to put her out of my mind at least for the next six months. When she gives birth, we will deal with the paternity testing and whatever comes of that. For now, I am trying to focus on moving out of my apartment and into his and re-building trust in our relationship.

Thanks for your help!

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:27 am 
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mobilene wrote:
And since the person who gets to make that decision is neither you nor your boyfriend, you're stuck. It's not fair that part of a tree fell on my roof in a storm Friday night and put two holes in it, either. Like you, I had no part in what happened, but I have to deal with it.

If you really love this man, then you need to support him in raising his child. This is how you will REALLY love him. If you can't do that, I think you need to look long and hard at whether you two are really a match.


I agree Jim and that was really my first reaction to this situation. I loved him and I wanted to stick by him and support him no matter what that meant. I told him that I love "all of him - not just parts of him" so if that means loving his child too, then I will. I accepted the fact that "what's done is done" and I can't change the fact that this other woman is pregnant. I can't change the paternity test results if they prove that he is the father. But I can control how I deal with the situation and how I let it affect my relationship with my BF. I had all of that worked out in my head until the other day when I was talking to my therapist and I just got "stuck" on the idea of him having another woman in his life. That is when I kind of fell off the acceptance wagon.

Thank you for posting. You have definitely helped me get back on the acceptance wagon and move on in a mature, responsible way. I do love him and I know that he will be a good father if it is his kid.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:06 am 
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NAM, I'm glad you're doing better today. I did notice in your thread that you started out strong with radical acceptance and then seemed to backslide. I can certainly understand why it happened...the idea of "another woman" is a lot to cope with.

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I was just putting my anger into words, hoping that would help to alleviate it.

It used to be that we were encouraged to do two things: beat a pillow with a baseball bat when angry, and write hateful letters that we won't send in order to "get it all out." It's been found in recent years that pounding a pillow with a baseball bat reinforces neurological pathways that associate anger with violent physical behavior. With the letter writing, I've extended that concept, combining it with DBT ideas, to come to the conclusion that when I write angry letters or journal entries in order to vent, I am reinforcing the negativity in my mind. I had some vivid experiences of this with my BF back when I tried this a few times. The venting provided short-term gratification, but in the long term kept me entrenched in a bitter, furious mindset by giving my mind lots of practice at expressing negative thoughts.

I had to give all that up and learn a more CBT based response, which is to practice turning my mind to pleasant things the minute negative thoughts pop up. One new practice I learned is that if I catch myself thinking about something negative, I will immediately visualize a STOP sign in my mind, and I will focus on that. Then I choose to think about something pleasant, or I practice mindfulness of sensations in the moment.

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...discussing his ability to be faithful to me and to be monogamous.

This is big, and I wish you much luck with it. Rebuilding broken trust can be a challenge.

I'm really glad you're feeling better today!

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:18 am 
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Thanks again, Ann! You are absolutely right about the letter writing thing. I just posted in Bordergirl's goodbye thread about how when I post here too much, I just re-hash things and get stuck in my head. It is the same with the letter-writing. At first, it felt good to "tell this girl how I feel," but in the long run, it just made the issue more permanent in my mind and I got stuck on it again. I was using DBT - specifically, some materials I printed from http://www.dbtselfhelp.com and a DBT workbook I have - to work on radically accepting the situation. I knew as soon as my BF told me about it that I would need to practice some radical acceptance. I have to tell you, DBT/CBT really did help me to pull through a situation that in the past may have basically destroyed me. In the past, I might have used self-harm, binge eating, drinking or other self-destructive activities and I might have made threatening phone calls to the woman and I might have left my BF. But radical acceptance and distress tolerance taught me how to accept reality and distract myself from the painful emotions.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:08 am 
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Wow, you have come a long way! That's fantastic!

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:56 am 
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Wonderful work on this heart-wrenching issue, NAM.


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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:12 pm 
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Yes. Ditto what Ann and IBF have said!

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:46 pm 
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[
Anyway, dramaqueen, I am interested in what you have to say. Please try to clarify the above quote for me - I'm not sure I understood it. Thanks![/quote][/quote]

Forgive me for not being so clear, I am German and sometimes still have problems finding the right words.
What I mean is this: there will be a child and also the mother in both your lives. You will have to see this woman I guess every now and then. There will be demands when it comes to visitation and child support and so on. It can go good but it might not. You will be reminded of this painful time in your life and can't just put it behind you like a one night stand with no consequences. It is certainly easier to have someone with a child from a previous relationship, that is the past. Mu husband had a 6year old daughter when we met. Even though he was divorced for years, I had to overcome feelings like jealousy, our child just being the second one and not the unique experience of being a first time father etc. The ex caused endless problems, the finances were a huge issue and so was visitation. I love my step daughter but it took some time to deal with all of it. Most important, whatever you do, make sure that you will be able to welcome the child with open arms into your relationship, kids are so fragile and need to know that they are unconditionally loved by the people in your life.
One more thing, maybe she is not even pregnant and just tries to hang on to your BF. Sounds like a needy person by your description and she certainly was not a good pick for a sexual frustration outlet?
I also think that we tend to be harder on ourselves regarding the acceptance matter because we constantly monitor our thoughts, feelings and behavior. People (women) without BPD might just accept the fact, kick the BF out and move on, or am I wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:19 pm 
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Dramaqueen: Thanks so much for responding. Everything you just said makes perfect sense. I guess I did interpret your first post correctly. Yes, I have thought about the impact of having this woman and child in our lives. Yes, I have prepared myself to accept the child if it is his and show the child genuine love. YES, it is going to be very very difficult to deal with the child support, visitation, interactions with the mother, etc. I have decided that I am going to take one thing at a time and work through each issue as it comes up. If it all becomes too difficult for me, I will have to re-evaluate my relationship with my BF. I plan on communicating openly and honestly with my BF and make sure he knows how I feel and what my expectations are. For example, I don't want to be left out. If this is his child and he is going to be involved with raising the child, I want to be involved too.

Yes, I also thought about the fact that maybe she is just trying to "latch" onto my BF. He said that she was with someone else (dating I guess) after his "encounter" with her (which lasted one weekend) so it is possible that another man is the father. I thought about that. Maybe she wants someone to take care of her and the baby (if it exists) and she is using this to draw my BF back into her life. Another reason why I have made it very clear to him that he must be completely honest with her about me. I want her to know that he and I are in a committed relationship so that when I move in and we all have to interact with each other, there is no misunderstanding/bitterness between myself and this woman.

Thanks for writing!

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:32 am 
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NAM I have nothing really to add in here except to echo what others have said and say that is some amazing work!

On an aside also. We can all dream the worst of any given situation and try to predict how badly things will turn out, seems to be an apparent defence mechanism. Although it is worthy of consideration the future is so unpredictable, and worse case scenario is often not how things pan out!

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:27 am 
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NotAMonster wrote:
...maybe the five steps would be a better way to work on the anger.

1. I am Angry.
2. The problem: a stranger may be pregnant with my boyfriend's baby.

3. Three courses of action: (1) threaten her and demand that she think again about having that f*!@#* baby (excuse my french); (2) leave my boyfriend so I don't have to deal with the situation; (3) stay with my boyfriend and see what happens six months from now when this baby is born
[size=85]4. Which one is best for now: Well, I was really leaning toward #1 for a while, but I have already decided on #3. I can't predict the future. It may not be his baby. It may not be born at all (again, evil mind at play here - so I am going to rot in hell oh well). It may be born and be his and I may actually enjoy having this kid in our lives. It may be born, be his and change our relationship in such a way that we are (a) closer or (b) realize that we are not meant to be together. Either way, I can't know until it actually happens.
5. Do it! Well, I am working on that. Still plan on moving in with him at the end of June.../size]

Y'know, NaM, There is another course of action that really would be totally radically accepting that another woman may be having your boyfriend's baby...

You could consider reaching out to her in this uncertain time for all of you.
I'm not necessarily advocating it... don't know if I could do it... but it does sound like an option that may prove more positive than others. Who knows?

(Between you and me, if I thought I *could* go there, I might find it easier to initiate from a less than altruistic perspective. You know the old saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer"...? :eyeroll )


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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:14 am 
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This thread is now linked to the following one:

http://board.bpdrecovery.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9862

So, now I know that R was cheating on me. And that girl got pregnant. But now he is 100% committed to me and only me and he has sworn it, and talked to his friends about it and has stopped seeing/speaking with other women. He tells me that for the past month and a half (since he told me about the pregnant woman and I decided to stay with him anyway), he has been faithful to me. He said it was at that point that he "really realized what he had." I am TRYING to take him for his word and believe him and trust him and move on from the past.

Here is what I think he is saying: Our relationship was rocky all along. We had a lot of difficulties and had to constantly work through things. I have had a history of being impulsive and threatening to leave him and actually did leave him a couple of times. Despite my saying that I loved him and was devoted to him and wanted to be with him, he was unsure about my loyalty. Maybe he thought our relationship was not so serious and so he kept his options open and met other women online. He started seeing one of those women in September and she became pregnant. I now know that she is due Sept. 2, so she got pregnant sometime in December. My relationship with R was, in my opinion, pretty strong at that time. We were planning a vacation together. We were talking about the future. We were seeing each other a lot. But, it turns out that he was seeing this other woman once/week. I got all of this information directly from her. I called her the other night because his story just seemed too convenient. It just didn't add up. So I got the truth from her.

Anyway, what I think he is trying to tell me is that the fact that our relationship was so difficult made him uncertain about us and so he saw other women. Then, when I told him I wanted to be with him despite learning of the pregnant woman, he realized that I was "for real" and I really was committed to him. So, at that moment he made a commitment to stop seeing other women. And he has been loyal to me ever since. Now he wants me to "move on from the past" and slowly build back my trust in him. He says he has confessed to making mistakes, he is sorry he messed up, but he wants to be with me and only me and he has not sought out anyone else and has been especially devoted to me for the past month. Except that for the past month I have been incessantly interrogating him about the other woman. The more I find out, the more I want to know. I just wish he had come clean with me and told me the whole truth from the start. The fact that he made up the whole story about running into her while we were broken up in February and hooking up a couple times just makes it hurt more when I find out the truth.

So, I believe that he does want to be with me. I have put him through the wringer and he is still willing to be with me. He has told his friends that I am the one for him. They have told me that. I believe them even if I don't always believe him. I really want to give him a chance. But how can I "move on from the past?" How can I just place my trust in him and start over with him? How can I radically accept that what happened in the past is over and today is a new day and while he will have some issues from the past to deal with, I have to trust him to do the right thing and deal with those issues in a way that will not hurt me or our relationship?

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:19 pm 
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I don't know, because I don't have that kind of faith in people. What would stop him from doing it again, if he thought it was okay to do then? I know you are trying to rebuild trust, and I hope someone comes forth to say that their husband used to cheat but reformed, and never did it again. I've never heard a story like that.

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:52 am 
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NAM,

I remember that back in the winter you said you had taken a break from therapy. Perhaps now would be a good time to talk to a professional. You seem desperate to believe that your bf has "seen the light" and will now be faithful to you. IMHO, he does not seem to really know what he wants, or whom he wants in his life. His past behavior does not bode well for your future as a couple. Also, your experience Thursday night should be a red flag that you are definitely not ready to accept this "pregant woman" in your life.

cosmo


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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:04 am 
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People can change... but it's also not unheard of for people to claim they've changed so they can get what they want. :/ Sometimes they genuinely do intend to change, but don't manage it.

I think it takes a long time for trust to be rebuilt in situations like this, so my advice to you would be don't rush into anything. Wait and see what happens, but do your best to protect yourself and take care of yourself. If your bf really has changed, in time it will become clear.

If you do decide to stay in the relationship, it might be a good idea to set some kind of limit. How many second chances are you willing to give him? What would count as evidence he's changed? What won't you accept? (Just some questions to think about.)

I did read your post about what happened on Thursday, and that for me raises a red flag as to whether this relationship is the best thing for either of you. It sounds as though you have a lot of issues of your own, without complicating the situation with a partner who may not be faithful. You've played your part in everything that's happened as well.

I would definitely recommend getting some help from a T if you're not doing so already.

(((((NAM)))))

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:16 am 
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Cosmo and Echoes -
Thank you for your posts. I saw my T yesterday evening and gave him the whole story then we ran out of time so I am going back today to really get into things.
I really think I need to get out of this situation - for my own mental and physical well being. Right now, though, I really need to stay with him because I have no where else to live. I asked my Mom if I could crash with her but that didn't work out (another long story) and my Dad is in the process of building a new house so he isn't even living at home right now. So, R and I are still living together and things are not great but not dangerous or hateful either. It will take me a little while to put together the money to get a new place, especially now that I had to post $500 bail on Thurs. night and will have to pay for the window I broke at his place. But I will still look for places so that I have something to fall back on.
Echoes - good idea about writing down my limitations. I was thinking of doing something like that today. For example, I am going to write down what I want to see happen - how I want us to move forward and give him a chance to write down what he wants and give his input on mine, etc.
Thanks again,
NAM

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:43 am 
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hey nam... i've been reading this thread today and seeing a lot of good thoughts and advice and excellent work on your part. i know this must be really tough... congrats to you for staying together so well, i think i would completely lose my mind if iu had to deal with a situation like this...

i was wondering if you and your boyfriend have thought about couples counseling for these issues of trust and and your fear of not having enough attention once the baby is born? it seems that if you two are preparing to live together for a while and commit yourselves to this relationship, now might be the time to try something like that before the baby is born and things get even tougher.

erin

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:11 am 
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Hi Erin,
How is everything with your situation? I have not checked in on your threads yet today...
Thanks for the kind words, but I don't if I am really "holding it together" that well - I did get arrested!
As for counseling, I did take my BF to my T for my first appointment after learning about the pregnant woman. It went really well and my BF even said that he was glad he went. In general, though, I don't think he is a big fan of therapy. I don't know if I could get him to go again. I suppose if he really wants to be with me and work things out, he will go. I am not ready to broach that subject with him yet but it is in the back of my mind.
- NAM

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:31 am 
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well at least you are thinking about it. if he is 100% committed to you like you say it shouldn't be hard to convince him. especially if when he did go with you it was a pretty positive experience. given the situation you are in it is understandable that you are going to have issues that you want to talk about with him, maybe with a counselor, because they can help you get it out and talk it out without it becoming a big blowout. i know when i am this stressed it is so easy for even simple conversations to turn into a disaster! i can't imagine how complicated it must be for you...

i guess i must have missed the part about you getting arrested! sorry, my mind is everywhere at once today... :) other than that though you sound like you are doing pretty good sorting things out and practicing your skills like radical acceptance especially...

(((nam)))

erin

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:08 pm 
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Erin,

The part about me getting arrested is in this thread:

http://board.bpdrecovery.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9862

That could be why you didn't see it!

Thanks for your support. I will keep you updated. Hopefully things are not damaged beyond repair. Right now we aren't really talking. I am trying to talk, be nice to him, move on...but he is being grumpy and cold with me and giving me the silent treatment. :( I can't believe I am the one being punished when he f----d up in the first place! I mean, I did some stupid crap lately too but I kind of think my anger is justified! How can HE be angry at ME for wanting to know the TRUTH? I hope his anger is from guilt over what he did to me...

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:10 pm 
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I think my point was that changes a lot of times happen slowly over time and with a lot of work and effort. If he truly has a weakness for cheating, there may not be enough to stop him from doing it again, and during hard times, he may flounder and fall again. Before, it seems like he was just saying he was committed to a relationship, the same as he is now. But he really wasn't. A person can say anything, that doesn't mean that they really mean it. Just like the tools here, I could use them everyday but not really mean them, and still fall prey to borderline action (and do sometimes). And I can say I am committed to recovery and act like I am, but may not really mean it. The meaning it part happens differently for everyone. And to recover, I have really, really want it, else I will just continue to fall back to my old ways. Same with him and his cheating. Same with me and my alcoholism. I think sometimes people have really good intentions at certain points, but there is still something in there that doesn't want to let go of that part of themselves, and really knows that right now, it's not going to happen, regardless of how good they are acting.

Just some thoughts to consider...

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:06 pm 
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Aqua -
I agree. My T and I talked about that last night. Maybe my BF is meant to be a forever bachelor and can't really commit to just one woman. I think the ideal situation for him would be if he could have the kid with M, but be free to have his other little casual relationships with other women as he pleases. I am kind of "cramping his style" by wanting him to actually settle down and be with just me! But I still hold out hope for him and only time will tell...
NAM

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:57 pm 
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((((NAM))))

I am so glad you have talked with your T...you really sound more grounded today.

cosmo


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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:01 pm 
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NAM,

Do you think you just might want Something to hope for? Something to fight for? Something to put your efforts into? Not necessarily him, but just something?

When we hinge our hopes on the actions of another, we are gambling. Why not hope for something where the power lies in your own hands whether it happens or not....

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 Post subject: Re: It is so hard
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:18 pm 
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It's very possible, Aqua...

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