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 Post subject: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:32 pm 
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I radically accept that my mother is who she is, and does not want to change.
I radically accept that she put my drunk father top priority and me further down the list.
I radically accept that I can and will be happy regardless of what happened in the past.
I radically accept that this face mask feels delicious. :D
I radically accept the way the people in the South I have known, are, and that many of them don't want to change that.
I radically accept that I no longer have to feel anger associated with them and the way they choose to be.
I radically accept that everything I say or do in an effort to help others will not always be accepted, understood, or even acknowledged.
I radically accept that I am not perfect, and that I will make mistakes.
I radically accept that my way is not always right for everyone, but is for some.
I radically accept that regardless of how much it bothers me, there are some people who will enjoy being disagreeable, gossiping, and creating chaos.
I radically accept that these people don't have to bother me anymore.
I radically accept that some people will continue to do it their way even when there is obvious evidence that way is not right.
I radically accept that these actions no longer have to cause me anger.

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It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:02 pm 
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I radically accept that others will not always do what I think they need to, or what I think is best for the whole.
I radically accept that a lot of people are selfish and self-serving.
I radically accept that I am selfish and self-serving. :))

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The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ---Winston Churchill

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:49 am 
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Radical acceptance is a crisis survival strategy. For instance, I might have to radically accept a permanent disability, that the bus is going to get me to my appointment late, that a close friend has died, or that the power is out and my food is spoiling. Radical acceptance is generally not used to accept theories about the world.

If we set that aside and look at your statements, the next point I would make is that the core concept of DBT is Mindfulness.

The "How" of Mindfulness is: nonjudgmentally, one-mindfully, and effectively.
If I write, for instance, "I radically accept that many people are idiots," then I am not being dialectical, but rather am being judgmental. I would better serve myself by saying, "I accept that I do not always understand the motivations of others."

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:38 am 
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My post is confusing. I belatedly realize that this site uses the concept of "radical acceptance" from a number of sources, and that it may have definitions beyond the crisis-survival scope of DBT. Please accept my post as feedback from the DBT POV only (obviously), FWIW.

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:18 am 
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Aqua, when I read your inventory of acceptance, and put it together into some kind of package, the first thing that comes to mind is a big soft gentle wave of acceptance washing over the major trouble spots of your life. In that respect it feels like a substantial change and a very healthy thing to do.

Ann, I think the distinction you make is important to keep in mind for several reasons. One is that we take primary responsibility for our own thoughts and emotions and for how we can choose to make ourselves suffer or accept. My perspective was formed initially by the DBT approach, but I've been either sloppy or creative about it and now it's kind of blended into other stuff, including CBT. For example, when I think about RA now, the first connection I often get is that it fits tightly with each of the Four Agreements.

Can you let me know something about or point me to links about the other perspectives you mentioned? May be a growth spurt ahead for me here.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:18 am 
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IBF, I realized my error when I looked at Trinity's sticky post in this forum that quotes several definitions of radical acceptance, with links.

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:19 pm 
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ibfuddled wrote:
Aqua, when I read your inventory of acceptance, and put it together into some kind of package, the first thing that comes to mind is a big soft gentle wave of acceptance washing over the major trouble spots of your life. In that respect it feels like a substantial change and a very healthy thing to do.



This is exactly it. I have identified these things as having control in some way of my feelings and thoughts. I think I have had a control issue with wanting to be in control of everything and have it done my way. Luckily, my bf is somewhat exempt of this, as he was already acceptable to me in most ways.

If I can learn to accept the above, I think it will make my life so much nicer, easier, and happier.

Yes, a wave of acceptance that felt pretty good came over me as I wrote these.

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The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ---Winston Churchill

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:31 pm 
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I have sooo much trouble with radical acceptance, you won't believe it! My brain tells me all the time that I cannot change the past and have to accept things as they are but it DOES NOT WORK. "It is what it is" is just a phrase for me and I keep fighting and bashing my head against the wall. Here is what I would need to accept:
1. I radically accept that my mother did not want me, was emotionally and physically distant and criticized me to no end.
2....that I made many wrong choice, most importantly got involved with the wrong man for 24 years.
3.... that I got stranded in a foreign country with no support whatsover (no family and very few friends)
4.....that I was codependent and enabled my f* husband to waste all our money on gambling for many years.
5.....that he committed a felony to gamble, went to prison, wrecked my credit behind my back, forced me to declare bankruptcy, sold my car behind my back and left me and our daughter to fight for ourselves for years to come.
6.....that I lost everything I ever cared for without any chance to ever recover from this. Even the complete retirement fund is gone.
7....that I hate him so much that sometimes I cannot breath.
8....that I work a mediocre job because my degree is not recognized here.
9....that all my dreams have been shattered
10...that I am looking every day for a reason to go on
11...that people tell me to lighten up and think positive when they have no clue what they are talking about
12...that I invested my trust just once and in the wrong person
13...that I see no way out and have to wear a mask wherever I go
14...that I am so worn out and exhausted from all those years of struggling, fighting and feeling empty, angry, frustrated, desperate and fed up that I want to scream and then vanish into thin air.
15....that I am my own worst enemy.....
Thank you all for "listening", this too shall pass.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:03 pm 
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Sometimes we need to do some inner work before we can radically accept certain things.

For example, before I could start radically accepting my ex-wife's ongoing lousy behavior toward me, I had to allow myself to feel and process the pain, shame, and anger of how abusively she treated me during our marriage; forgive her for what she had done; and place my focus squarely on my relationships with my children. These things helped me let go of the past and create the right reality for today, which then put her behavior in its appropriate context, making it easier to radically accept.

Those other things I had to do first were not trivial. But they were critical.

Peace,
jim

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:50 pm 
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I think I know what you mean, Jim. I have realized that my husband's behavior was driven by his addiction and his Bipolar issues. I cannot forgive because I cannot forgive anyone, the concept is alien to me because it makes it right what happened. What I can and did do is understand all this with my head. I have no problem with what he did, his endliess lying, hiding, reckless neglect of his responsibilities etc. but rather with what the consequences were because they affect my life until the day I die. My daugher and I have a strong relationship and I am glad that she did not bear more scars than she does. It would have been so much easier to deal with another woman in his life because I could have worked it out and moved on or just called it quits. This gambling thing is a whole different matter, it will never go away and no matter how hard I work and no matter how radically I accept the fact that I will never be safe again (financially at least) and that I am scared out of my mind on a daily basis.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:30 pm 
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I think I have been able to, jim. I am wondering what is going on, honestly.

I am wondering this....

if my anger at people who involve themselves in actions I don't like.... such as my mother, makes me angry because I don't feel distanced enough from these behaviors yet - that I am afraid I am still going to do what they are doing, although I would not like myself for doing it.

I acted like her in some ways. I don't like what I used to be, (I didn't even like it then, I just wasn't in control of it), therefore, I don't like her actions. And, I want to change her so I don't have to be reminded of the old me or see someone else do what I thought was so abhorrable about my own actions. I think that not being in control of myself for so many years has caused a 180 - that now I want to control every little thing about myself and my life to the t - and anyone who threatens that by showing me the actions I used to do, I dislike to the extent where I want to control them in order to get rid of the possibility that I could again be tempted to fall back into those actions. I fear everyone going out-of-control, the way my environment was before. I think I associate some actions (the way I used to act), with being out-of-control, and I want to control the situation, and them, to make it safe. Of course I can't control them, and that pisses me off. I think I become angry at anyone who loses control of themselves, anyone who becomes chaotic or negative or out-of-line, and that need to pull them back in line controls my actions and thoughts.

Wow.

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The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ---Winston Churchill

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:43 pm 
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Maybe I should be a police officer lol.

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The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ---Winston Churchill

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:00 pm 
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Dramaqueen, I would like you to think something over. I have discovered, for me, that forgiveness does not mean that a wrong done to me is suddenly right. I now look at it like a debt situation. If you borrowed $5 from me but never paid it back, my forgiveness means I no longer require you to. (I may never lend you $5 again, though!) In my case, my ex hurt me, but my forgiveness is about no longer requiring her to repay that debt by making it right somehow. It does not mean that it never happened, that she was justified in doing it, that I deserved it, or that I should even automatically trust her.

People who have been in relationships with addicts (as it sounds like your husband was a gambling addict) often find good help and healing in a codependent's 12-step group. Gam-Anon is specific to gambling (http://www.gam-anon.org) and if all else fails you can find a Codependents Anonymous meeting (http://www.codependents.org).

AquaLite, it sure looks to me like you're protecting *yourself* more than anything else when you want to control others when they behave out of control. I have a similar problem when I see someone causing humiliation to another. I have felt plenty of humiliation in my time. When I see it happening to somebody else, I am very likely to step in and try to either put a stop to it or say something funny that minimizes it or puts it back on the humiliator. This isn't about them -- it's about my feelings about being humiliated. Does this make sense?

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Mobilene, I like your description of forgiveness. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:53 pm 
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mobilene wrote:
AquaLite, it sure looks to me like you're protecting *yourself* more than anything else when you want to control others when they behave out of control. I have a similar problem when I see someone causing humiliation to another. I have felt plenty of humiliation in my time. When I see it happening to somebody else, I am very likely to step in and try to either put a stop to it or say something funny that minimizes it or puts it back on the humiliator. This isn't about them -- it's about my feelings about being humiliated. Does this make sense?


Yes, definitely. It is about protecting myself from harm. I read them as a threat to my safety. I think part of this is that when I was growing up, she couldn't protect me from harm, and because of her processes, she can't be supportive to me. So in times of stress, I believe she doesn't know the right thing to do. I take that into account, and it leaves me in a place where it limits the relationship I am willing to have with her.

I don't trust many people in this way. It's like I am constantly scouting out whether I think someone around me is someone I can trust in a bad situation, or someone who threatens my safety.

And I think that's one reason why I wanted her to change..... because of the obvious, (she has some issues that she won't acknowledge), and because she makes me feel unsafe. I wonder if that makes me co-dependent, or what ?

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The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ---Winston Churchill

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Jim- Thanks for the reply. I am not really stuck on the forgiveness thingi because I know that I can deal with it just like you described it. Just not with my husband situation. It was not just an incident like an affair (oh do I wish it would have been that) or just gambling, recovering and dealing with this on a spiritual level. It meant that we (I) were, are and will be completely wiped out. There will never be another home that I can feel safe in because I own it. There will never be a halfway comfortable retirement because it is gone, he cannot ever work again and I have just been employed in this country for 7 years (I am 51).He/I can't ever recover from what has happened. This is ongoing and that is why GamAnon helped me only during the first 2 years to deal with the initial issues. I have worked the steps and still do but even my group members agree that it is very difficult to heal from the degree of destruction that took place. I tried and tried and even if I could manage to forgive the actions, what do I do with the day to day stuff? Input welcome!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:25 pm 
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dq - it has really helped me to go to dbtselfhelp.com and watch the part on radical acceptance. It doesn't mean you have to agree that what they did was right, or allow them in your life. It is done for the self.

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The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ---Winston Churchill

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:40 pm 
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DQ,

I put my ex-wife through a hell of a lot of pain with my addiction, and while the circumstances of the addiction were different from your husband's, the destruction was similarly wide and deep. Recovering from it is not a straight path. It is not easy. It is not pleasant. It takes a lot of work -- a lot of facing your own inner demons, a lot of coming to accept (not like, just accept) how things have turned out. And then you still have to deal with a husband who is (I assume) trying to recover from his own problem, which itself is not a straight path, etc. But I believe that if you work for it, you can heal.

I think that returning to Gam-Anon may be a good idea. Others who are farther along the path than you can serve as inspiration and example. Also, one principle of the program is that you share your experience, strength, and hope with others. This is actually a critical, unreplaceable part of your own recovery! I have found that to be true in my recovery.

I also think that you may benefit from working with a therapist who has good experience dealing with codependency/coaddiction issues. I also think that cognitive-based therapy (CBT) may be helpful to you, because it helps you retrain your mind.

I wish I was able to draw you a map through all this, but each of us has to find the way ourselves. But I encourage you to get started! You said elsewhere you are German, so vielleicht helfen diese Woerter vom deutschen Volksmund: Wer rastet, rostet! und Morgen, morgen, nur nicht heute... :-)

Peace,
jim

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Jim- for the most part I agree with you. But then again, it is not about spiritual healing in the strict meaning of the word. I have accepted the absolut insanity of the events as being part of his addiction and also part of his undetected BP. What I cannot deal with are the simple facts. And I am talking about the financial devastation that neither he or I can EVER recover from. GamAnon is no help since it is all about the steps for the addict and the family member, the spititual side of gambling and recovery and not about how to survive the aftermath. There are no solutions and no counseling will actually repair the material damage. I might sound cruel but I am in survival mode and the emotional and relationship issues are a moot point for me. I will never be able to have no money, to struggle, to be afraid of the future and to live in poverty and not care about it, be positive anyway or whatever I am supposed to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:08 pm 
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DQ, I understand that you have utter financial devastation. I do get that. I still maintain that you will be well served to get help coming to terms with that. I am not saying that there is help that will change your situation -- only help that will let you achieve peace. Yes, it is possible, if you work for it.

jim

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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Acceptance is really helping me. It is curbing some of the anger and frustration I feel. I have spoken to my mother a few times now, and have not gotten angry or frustrated.

I think this is my main problem. I think there are so many things I need to accept. I can't expect all people to meet my expectations. I have to accept the world as-is. (Maybe I can find a place where people do - and that's why I came to the Bay Area! haha) Unfortunately, I don't even meet my own expectations.

I radically accept that not everyone will always be considerate, or know what consideration is or means.
I radically accept that people will sometimes lie, to me, and this doesn't have to make me angry.

These things don't have to make me angry. I can accept that they are, and that I personally don't have to think they are right, or want them in my life. But that doesn't mean I have to get angry about them, and be inconsiderate myself.

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The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ---Winston Churchill

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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 Post subject: Re: Acceptances I Need to Recall Daily
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:43 pm 
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Not only this... I realize that I have used the tactics of a bully in order to feel better. I really have. And I think I realized it when 1) I remembered the arguments my parents and I had concerning their house and how they decorated it, as if that was my business. 2) I realized it in the "self-interest" thread with Ash, that I was bullying people ever since I got angry in my early 20's, after being "bullied" and neglected by my father. 3) I forced my opinions down my bf's throat for so long. He would say something, and if he didn't have my opinion, I threw tantrums lol. I think I'm learning to control it, but man is it difficult. I still WANT to start screaming and being a jerk, but I do my best not to. It seems to be working over time.

I've also realized about Ash'es baby steps stuff.... that I can't expect someone to jump miles overnight. I need to validate baby steps, and stop "pushing" people to grow from a seed to a full-grown plant overnight. After all, I didn't. I just don't have much patience.

I also explored sarcasm a bit. I think I have been using sarcasm in order to express anger. I realized that sarcasm is ok, if it comes from the right place, and is done in fun, and the people around can appreciate, understand, and accept it. Not healthy if it comes from an angry place, I think.

I radically accept that people cannot grow as quickly as I would like to see them grow. I can gain enjoyment from seeing them take small steps.
I radically accept that I have used bully tactics, and have acted on feelings of anger and frustration, and anxiety, in this way. I will do my best to change my behaviors.

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The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ---Winston Churchill

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -- Robert H. Goddard


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