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 Post subject: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:59 pm 
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I HATE it when people are late. Hate it hate it hate it! Ugh, oh man i hate it soooooooooooo much!

untwisting:
It must be something about me that causes this.

Nope, it's almost definitely not about me. That's emotional reasoning, jumping to conclusions, and personalization. This person clearly has late issues long before me.

This person is irresponsible and I hate them!

Mental filter, black and white. This person has done some exceptionally nice things for me and others. I liked this person at other times and I can remember those times. Im also discounting the positive. This is also labeling (irrepsonsible).

There's something bad about me that I get so upset about lateness.

Well maybe there is. But there's a lot of good thigns about me too and it's understandable it's so upsetting to me because since i cant drive (or walk much), im very dependent upon others for transportation.

I dont want to deal with this person anymore. or anyone else im dependent upon.

jumping to conclusions...I can handle this. It's understandable im dependent right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Fricken hour late now already! ugghghgh! I HATE it that i get so upset. why cant i handle this like a normal person?!

labeling. im "abnormal". lateness bothers a lot of people, maybe most people.

if someone is more than 15 mins late, i get so upset inside (even if i dont show it). I dont want anything to do wtih them and i feel sooo offended! im a bad person!

labeling. im not bad. lots of good things about me. ive been very nice to this person for example. i was nice to a lot of friends recently. ive been helping and offering to help a lot of people recently.

Why can't i just let it roll of my back like normal ppl?!

labeling. im not abnormal. Im just at more extreme end of spectrum of normal and average. There's good reasons i dont do well with it. mental filter to see this person as all bad. mental filter to see that im bad for being angry. lots of people would be agnry.

i should be more understanding...this person has transportation issues of their own (rides a bike to bus to here, for ex)...im pissed he dindt call me and apologize first thing instead of me having to call, but i feel i should be more understanding. im priveleged to have a car (though i cant drive it due to health). im a bitch for not being understanding.

labeling. lots of ways im not a bitch. i dont explode. i dont even bring it up with people. i keep it to myself my anger. it's normal to be mad when someone is late, esp this late.


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:59 pm 
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Liz dear


hi :)

why are you being so hard on yourself? :)

I think even 'normal people' get pissed off if a person is an hour late. so you being pissed off IS normal :)


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:18 am 
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As a person with BPD, I sometimes wonder if my reactions are "normal" or not because I can get over the top inappropriately. An hour late is very late and you had a good reason to be upset. Recovery for me is learning the balance of emotions. I sometimes have to take a minute and really evaluate how I feel before expressing myself. Words can't be taken back and I'd rather have someone wait for my answer than to get one that I blow out of proportion.
Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Liz,

You've said that he has to ride his bike to where he gets the bus to your place.....any number of things could have caused him to be late. You don't have control of these things,and IMHO, some of us with bpd get a tad paniky when we feel we are losing control or don't actually have it at all You are also dependent on your friend to take you places....more loss of control. Not having control can be a very scary thing. However, we do have control over how we react and behave to things that happen.

dagwood


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Thanks for the responses, mm, MikeBur, and dagwood.

Dagwood, i do relate to freaking when not in control. I am frequently blaming myself (or others) when im not in control of my own life.

I got over my friend being late at the time, but Im planning for future connections with him, and I have unresolved anger I need to deal wtih better.

When my friend picked me up that evening (1 hr and ten mins late) for the meeting we were attending, I was still very angry, but to my credit, I tried to hide my ambivalent feelings toward him. It's possible he had no idea i was trying to calm myself from rage or that i was even irritated. I dont know. I am often hiding my rage and i dont know how much seeps out. I can credit myself with trying very hard though.

In the end, he had what seems like a very good reason that was out of his control for being very late. What bothers me is how he handled it. It might benefit me to just let it go. Im having a bit of trouble.

If i were in his shoes, what i would have done is to call my friend ten mins into being late or something like that, and say, "hey, im so sorry. Here is what is going on. The bike shop said my bike would be ready by 3:30 and it's not ready, and im still here and I dont know when it will be done, but i think i could be to you by ______this time but im not sure. Do you still want me to come?" or something like that.

Instead, at 5:50, which was twenty mins after he was supposed to be to my house, I hadnt heard from him (our meeting was at 6). I called him and asked, hey whats up?All he said was he had to get his bike cable fixed today. (no other info). Big pause. I asked how long it would be (meaning till he was at my house, cuz he had to take a bus after bike store and at the time i figured he was on the bus to me cuz he said, about 20 mins more). I think now he musta still been at bike store because...

When I called at 6:40 inquiring again wahts up (again no call from him), he said he was on the bus and he'd be about 7 minutes) and he was here quickly then. When he arrived, i dont belive he said anything of the matter, although he might have said a small quick, "sorry". Not sure. I said, so hey, what happened? (politely i think, although inside im really angry). He explained a very good explanation that the bike shop told him it'd be ready at 3:30 (which would have been plently of time to get to me after that). Not much further info, but i felt it was really undersrstandable he was late, given the info he just shared. He then went on to talk all about his life, which was realllllly hard for me to hear (all good things going on in his life) cuz i think i still wanted more acknowledgement of how inconvient this was to me.

At the end of the evening when we were just about back to my house, he said he felt "like such a jerk" for being so late. I immediately felt a lot better that he acknowledged the significant inconvenience to me. I dont want him to feel like a jerk for being late. I want him to have handled it diferent.

I think i might be better off to let him off the hook. So what?! So he didnt handle it the way i wanted, right? I mean so what? Im still having some trouble.

I think he might feel shame that he's not more in control of his life, as he's often late (for a variety of reasons) and maybe he feels so ashamed he figures its easier or better to just not address how this affects others. Im not sure. Similarly, i feel ashamed im not more in control of my own life. I feel angry i cant contorl my life, when i get to meetings for example. But much deeper than that. I am very ambivalent about the meeting we were going to. It's not very fuliflling to me. Im angry and ashamed I dont know waht to do about how to handle my own time better, how to make my own life more fulfilling. I blame myself for this (or alternately him, although I try to hide this). But perhaps i can see that, I too, don't handle my life in the most ideal way. And that we are both imperfect.

When he said he felt like a jerk, i had said, "It's ok, i know u have a lot of variables you cant control right now". Its true there is a lot he cant control having a bike and bus for transportation. Im upset he didnt call or explain better, or acknowledge sooner or better. Why doesnt he do this? Im not sure. But it's probably not as much about me, if even at all. So it's not personal. Maybe I can let him off the hook because he's not perfect. And neither am I. I'm still workin on accepting both.


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:15 am 
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I think how your friend handled the delay was pretty inconsiderate, all other factors aside. I just wanted to say good job on not splitting--accepting your friend's imperfect actions and not taking it personally is a healthy and emotionally mature way to handle things.

Don't be afraid to let your friend know what's up, though; just a little "Next time, keep me in the loop" is enough to let your friend know where your boundaries are.


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Ama, thanks for saying that. I dindt think of that. Yeah i could say just that - Hey, next time, could you keep me in the loop. That's a great way to put it. I'm flip flopping between feeling so angry at him and alternately feeling so angry at myself for being mad at him, that Im not realizing there is a middle ground of some modifications that might work. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:17 am 
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just a follow up here. I ended up talking to my friend about him being late. I just expressed my feelings but without any temper and it went very well. He definitely understood how it was inconvenient for me and he felt really bad. He didnt talk about it because it was so uncomfortable for him. He offered on his own to plan to come 1/2 hour early any time he was meeting me, so that given the variables he has to juggle wtih the bus and his depression, that he would end up being on time.

I wasn't sure if he felt pressured to do that and I told him i thought that might be a big burden to him and he said it wasn't. He said he has had to do this for most of his life with the variables he has had including his depression.

He was also very glad I talked to him. He was very very glad. I was surprised. He even followed up later saying that I dont know how much it means to him that I trust him to talk about this with him. He said most people wouldnt talk to him and that actually made him feel like they thought he was stupid. I didnt quite understand this, but I was definitely glad he was happy i talked to him.

I feel a lot of compassion for him and the challenges he has in his life. I really feel quite differently now. I feel so much compassion i worry i may have swung the other way a bit (totally understanding of him). Im not sure. I hope I can remember this compassion if/when he's late again. My guess is I wont be able to remember it as clearly because I'll be angry and offended that this has happened again. I hope I can find a middle ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:24 am 
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Kudos to you for talking with him about it! It sounds like a resolution to the problem has been found. It takes courage to discuss sensitive issues like that and I'm so happy you had a positive outcome!

Luna

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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:32 am 
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Good job, Liz,


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:14 am 
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thanks Luna and Dagwood

My friend is picking me up tomorrow afternoon from a medical treatment. I may get a chance to practice. ; ) We'll see how I do.


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:50 am 
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Good luck to you, Liz. Let us know how it went!

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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:50 am 
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Well i swung back the other way...Not only toward him but myself too. I was angry at both of us. However, as progress, i was able to get over it within about an hour and was able to actually enjoy my friend after he picked me up and we went to do a few errands for him which was also a way for me to get out and de-stress after the long day of medical treatment. I think that's progress. I still feel irritated with him. And myself too.

At the time and now too, I did not feel nearly as understanding of him (or myself). I criticized myself for not being able to wait better and told myself i was a prima donna. He was an hour late. I was also angry with him and though I dont feel steaming now, I feel annoyed. And I had differnet thoughts this time and still kinda do.

I realize that he always shows to pick me up. He never just doesnt show. But he's consistently 1/2 hr to an hour or 1.5 hrs late. I wonder now if it's a choice he's making rather than something out of his control. And i wonder the same of me too - can i wait better if i just put my mind to it.

I dont know. The good progress i guess is we both aired our feelings and then were able to let it go for then. (He felt terrible and said so soon after picking me up). And i aired my feelings in a relatively calm way and jsut shared how i feel, and then let it go and get on with the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:41 pm 
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A friend of mine in high school used to do this all the time, and it would drive me crazy. She would say something like "I'm on my way now!" from a 5 minunte drive away, and show up 30-45 minutes later, and then not even apologize about it or care at all. A few times was fine, but when she kept consistently wasting my time like that, I wasn't exactly pleased. :/

Rather than asking your friend to plan to be there a bit earlier, maybe suggest that he come over earlier and don't tell him about it? Like if you want to hang out at 6, ask him to come over at 5:30? Then there is the slim chance he will be a little early, but personally, I don't mind that so much as waiting around for someone.


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 Post subject: Re: Late, late late!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:13 am 
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Mask, I like your idea. After I thought about it a bit I remembered my friend actually told me to do this some time ago (to tell him to come 1/2 hr or an hour earlier than i want him there). I had told him at the time that i didnt want to do that because I didnt want to take responsibility for his late problems. But now I can see that the issue is mine. If i want to continue interacting with him, and i dont want to be irritated by him, perhaps a way to take care of myself is to to as you suggested. If he shows early, i think i'll leave a note on the door saying im not ready yet and them make him wait. :)

In retrospect I think that last time when he picked me up that i really did make some progress in handling things better. Im not *as* angry. I was less extreme in how I handled it in that I didnt feel i had to stuff it altogher and just be the perfect person who handles everything in stride, and I didn't rage (im really not a rager, but internally I can be and though I had very strong feelings at the time, it was good I could let them go much more quickly).

I can see that what it comes down to for me is coming to see people as not good or bad, but that slippery gray area i cant get hold of. Im unclear if we have choice and if so how much to hold someone accountable and if we have choice, I have trouble seeing people and myself as a good person despite foibles. It's really hard. Im still irritated with my freind and avoided him at the meeting on thursday (not so he would notice though). I look forward to being able to see myself and others as basically good although flawed, rather than as bad people.


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