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 Post subject: Untwstg. reactions to family breaking their word
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:55 pm 
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Untwisting words family has said:

The situation and words:

I asked my sister to share with me her point of view as to waht happened when she and my mother broke their word and shared my bpd dgx with my brother when I specifically told them not to (and they did so without my knowledge for over a month). I told my sister in a very cordial, non defensive tone that I was upset at hearing that this happend (from my mother a few weeks ago) but wanted to hear her (my sisters) point of view as to what happened and wanted to know what she had hoped to accomplish in sharing this with my brother. (And i think i said, but not sure: - or why you felt it would be beneficial to tell him.)

My sister said many things, but one of the most immediate was said in a very irritated, defensive tone. It sounded chastizing to me. Like, "how dare I question their motives." My sister told me that she and mom did not plan it. It was an innocent thing that just came out.


My reaction:

I immediately felt on "high alert" by the tone of her voice. Adrenaline started running. I felt angry with her and started to doubt myself a little even though I stayed much more centered than normal. I think: How dare she respond this way to me. it's not right. then I think doubtful thoughts about myself - I'm so ugly for being angry wtih family. I'm the ugly one. I'm unresonable to doubt motives or need more information. I'm so borderline.


Filters and reframes:
1.) Shoudl thinking. Sister should respond the "right" way. Not true. Sister will respond however she will respond. Her response is partly due to her own issues. I can recall that later in the convo she shared things like, Nothing is every good enough for you. I can see that T. often feels never good enough and so part of what she is expressing here is feeling i see her and the family as never good enough. the judgement she feels hurts her. so it can be understandable that she responds as she did given the conversations going on in her own head.

2.) Also - emotional thinking - (thinking that I'm ugly). Also all or none thinking. (if I'm upset right now, then I always am.) NOT true. And mayabe it will take some time for family to see that I dont *always* feel dispointed wtih them. I have changed. I cant control their preconceived notions of how I am/was. I also cant control that now they will have the excuse to throw evrything they dont like into the bpd category! In reality, I think it WAS reasonable to need more information on why they chose to do what they did (break their word).

That made me feel somewhat better! It does seem more reasonable now. I'd still lvoe any feedback!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:20 pm 
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More untwisting:

Context of what was said when my mom and sister revealed to my bro about my bpd:

My mom had just visited me for 5 weeks to help care for my lyme disease condition, and returned to her home state and gathered my sister and brother to have dinner and also to share a lot about what my life is like. During her visit, I also revelaed my bpd dgx too but made it clear that my sister already knows, but please do NOT share this with my brother. It felt sooooooo supportive that my mother was gathering family support for understanding my condition. And a drastic change from the "old" mom who had always been a bystander in my lyme illness of 18 years. She even got out the book, Too Loud Too Bright, Too Fast Too Tight, about neruological sensitivites from which I suffer. I was overjoyed to hear that my mother took such an active advocate type of role.

However, at some point in this conversation, my sister, T. also said that brother was "guessing around the topic of personality" and that's what lead them to brake their word with me and share my bpd dgx wtih him. I feel angry as to why my brother would have been lead to guess *anything personality related* unless sister and mother were saying personaility related things to him which they shouldnt have been. As the topic is now not open for discussion with either sis or mom, i cannot ask further.


REACTION:

I am feeling angry and mistrustful. I want to ask them why he was even guessing that. The little bit she did say was that my brother's son had behavioral problems and he seemed to be familiar with "things like that". (??!!!) I feel sooooooooooo angry that my mom and sister have shut off this conversation and I cannot ask. I'ts not right.

FILTER:
Should thinking. I'm thinking that my sister and mother SHOULD not shut off the convo, and they SHOULD allow me to decide if what they did was ethical. I SHOULD be allowed to decide for myself how emotionally safe each of them is being by being able to know what happend in that conversation. Ugh, I hate these. Whenever i realize it's a should thinking, it doesnt help at all to ease the pain.

??!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:59 pm 
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im not really sure you have twisted thinking about this. but i suggest trying the 2 tools at the left <---------- and see if it fits in this. i replied to you in the other thread, so i wont repeat it here :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:01 pm 
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Would that be the five steps and the separation of stuff?

I'm guessing that's what you mean?

Hmm, five steps: im not sure im at a point of trying to decide what to *do* about the situation. I think I'm still trying to figure out how I feel.

About the separation of stuff...not sure how one does that technically? Just list out what you think is your stuff and what is theirs? What forum does that go in?

Thanks,
Liz


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:07 pm 
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i think maybe it would go in seasons passes, thats to do with family. but if we are wrong, a mod will move it...hell, dont want the mods bored, ya know? lol.

i just think your feelings are normal. someone betrayed a confidence and went against what you wanted about your own business. i dont see it as twisted.....i think you have a right to be angry and disappointed. what you do with that is your own choice, tho. what you CAN really do,,,and how to accept they messed up and may not own up to it.

could be separation of stuff,,,certainly.

could just be a thing you have to work on accepting, and that you cant change another or control them. people just dont do what we want most of the time.

i know as a mom i have told one kids stuff to another kid. wow, did i learn how wrong that was! i had to learn to see my kids as people, and individuals with rights.

maybe feelings...if you need to identify how you feel. its ok to feel several things...at once. feelings are ok, just what we do with them is the choice.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:28 pm 
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Since this painful experience is in the past and most all have talked about it and processed it some, I'm wondering what there is to gain from doing or saying anything about it now or in the future.

What things can you do or say that will make the current moment or the future better than it is right now for all involved, including yourself?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:52 am 
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Hi ibefuddled.

Hmm. I don't feel finished at all with processing this. In part because I don't have all the information I wanted. I don't know why my brother was guessing about personality related stuff unless sister and mom were hinting at that. If they were, it could give me information about how trustworthy they are since that would be coming too close to breaking their word with me.

On the other hand, I'm doubting the (I cant think of a way to say this other than - the goodness or rightness -) of my wanting to know. Am I unreasonable for wanting to know? Am I a bad person for wanting to know? Am I paranoid? Crazy? I need to process things sister told me. Sister's reaction was just to shut down my attempts to find out what really happened and to seek why he was told. You need to just trust family! She said. Unless they've done something horrible to you, you trust that we are here for you and love you. She mentioned that he loves me even more now and has more compassion. But this is her assessment and I'm not sure I trust it. I think sister can have unrealistic views about love. My brother hardly KNOWS me. We talk for about 20 minutes about twice a year on bday and xmas. and I have anger that he's taken no real interest in my life for many years. So i feel angry that they made me much more vulnerable with him than i ws ready to be, but after the call with sister, I'm also feeling shame about being angry that mom and sister made me so instantly vulnerable with brother....So I guess part of what I'm needing is understanding if my desires are normal or crazy and paranoid.

Boy, when I read what you wrote, I feel angry. That's exactly what my mom is saying...get over it! It's in the past! She actually said, "We are all paying for you when you stay in anger." !!!!!! And she went on about how when you are angry, it slows down physical healing - since I'm costing her money to pay for my lyme disease treatment. So I guess I"m needing to know whether it's normal to take a few weeks to get over something like this or whether I'm being borderline and being stuck in anger. This is very painful.

These are just some of the things going through my mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Untwstg. reactions to family breaking their word
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:19 am 
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Hey there-

I don't really post or read that much here (like for 2 years), but I was reading the last couple of days and I saw your thread and I really wanted to contribute something to you. I hope I am successsful.

You ask if you are crazy because you correctly assess that after specifically stating that a private personal piece of information was to be kept in confidence, it was not.

You say that you do not know if you can trust the people who broke the confidence because they may not be trustworthy and you are unsure.

1) You are not crazy. You are correct.

2) They have already proven themselves to be untrustworthy. So why are you speculating?

You have done nothing wrong here. You have been disrespected.

What you DO about it and how you react to it is ALL up to you and will make all the difference in the world.

Someone said to me once, when I asked if I were "over-reacting" to a situation that bore some similarity to yours: "Maybe. Is it interfereing with your life? Are you so preocupied with the thoughts that you can't move on to find a solution? Is your sleep being interupted?"

I responded "no. I was just working out the blame-shift and gas light that had happened to me and I was feeling irritated at the incident and had lost respect for the person."

So, the answer was, I was having feelings and needed some time to be over the shock of experiencing a betrayal, but my life was as normal and I was not losing sleep or anything else over the incident.

No problem. Very healthy.

BUT it was not a family member...MUCH harder..and a MOTHER...MUCH MUCH MUCH harder.

So, what do I have to contribute?

Maybe a couple of rhetorical questions based on what I read about you not trusting your family (long-standing it seems), and feeling "unknown" to them:

If you don't trust them, why do you reveal personal information?

Is there a place you can start to rebuild trust by limiting the sensitive informtion?

Is it too late for that and you know they are who they are and have boundary problems, maybe that will change some day, but until then, you are a grown woman and you are entitled to keep to yourself that which is personal to you at the moment?

Is it possible that at this time, they really do not know you and unless you show them who you are, they can't possibly know?

If you knew what you knew about them and they were neighbors, would you WANT to be social with them? Would you like who they are as people?

Is it possible that as you have changed, so has some other individual in the family?

Could it be wrth just starting out having cofee or going to a museum? something slow and easy to establish a connection that could develop into a friendship?

If not, DON*T. I don't know your family and in mine that is an utter impossibility and would be dangerous.

So, are you responding to this? Or are you over-reacting? Are you getting too involved in "figuring it out" and who said what and you "know" that the conversation BEGAN as a way to harm you?

Dunno.

But I do know that people really are more concerned with themselves usually. If your Bro has a "problem child" - THAT is his universe - It (the world) is not about you. So, I would suggest letting go of the idea of "getting to the bottom" and creating stories about things that are designed to make you the centraol object of people's negative attention.

Don't get stuck in the quicksand. It's not helpful. Figure out your feelings, look at the facts, take a decision, make a short term "outlook" plan and move forward. (it's like being told "eat less excercise more", I know, I know)

I also know that when people tell BPD's that "we all pay for your anger or emotions"- they usually mean they pay an emotional toll and it is hard, if not impossible to respect or be close to someone who behave and think the way BP's do. Hint: we are the one's who pay in the long run. It's hard to swallow and hear, but it is true. If we face the reality, we can change it for ourselves and preserve healthy relationships.

Also, just because you are a BPD, doesn't mean some of the people around you do not mess up and do harmful things at varying levels and frequencies. Doesn't mean they aren't a bunch of serious jerks. (allow me to introduce you to my family of puppy killers, narcs, insider-traders, crooked lawyers...ugh)

IMHO you have enough to contend with because you were in fact disrespected by having a confidence betrayed . Let the emotional reasoning and speculating go.

I don't know what role if any your family played in your BPD - my guess is it is they who are primarily responsible because that is what the anecdotal evidence would support - if it's true- as an adult, can you see that they are dysfunctional and do things out of thier own issues? Is it important for you that they see you now? Are they the type that CAN? (my faily can't. They are the very famous escape artist group "the blame-shifters" - also known in some cities as "the gas -lighters" and "non-appologizers")

When i look at your post I see so much confusion centered around one specific incident - and maybe the question is too big - but I see this as a "moment/lesson" in adulthood to decide, or take action to set boundaries
to be really successful at putting the boundary in a respectful way and showing them (more importantly YOURSELF) who you say you have become-

This is really about betrayal as far as I can tell from your words and it seems like it's also about feeling an outsider, not being apprecaited for growth and change, being judged. No wonder you feel so badly.

Who are you going to be when you decide how to deal with this? How much of it has to be dealt with INSIDE yourself, how much outside?

I hope I was helpful - your question reminded me of something that happened to me 15 years ago and I wrote what I learned from my experience....

Good luck
Bunny


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 Post subject: Re: Untwstg. reactions to family breaking their word
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:31 am 
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Ah-

and one more thing.

I would have responded somewhat differently if this was not a family of origen issue.

The fact of the betrayal and your right indignation would still be true- but I would have had a different take on your sister's comments which if true, are very invalidating and dismissive of you as a person from a FAMILY OF ORIGEN MEMEBER. (The difference is history of that behavior versus BPD bringing that history into un-realted adult relationships and projecting it onto spouse so nothing is ever good enough so spouce is reduced to those kinds of comments out of frustration).

BUT your sister could also just be dopey or frustrated - I REALLY don't know because I don't know her- or you- and I am not there.

Comments, based on my experience, taking a stab at offering something-


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